"Let me ask you this question? if we got lucky and got Lebron and spree and Houston are still on this team, does this team have the balls to bench either Houston or spree? ....Yea I thought so.. "-Why should either of them be benched? Taking a HSer and then just thrusting him into the spotlight in NYC is definitely a lose-lose sitaution, it's never done like that. You ease him into it. If, in December, he's playing solid, then you put him in, of course the Knicks have the "balls" to do that. The fans will want him and if he proves he can handle the NBA he'd go in.

I agree with fmoran here, the Knicks are a few players away from being a top contender in the East. People like you don't seem to understand basketball. Let's just sit around and wait for the next MJ or the next Kobe and if we don't get him there is no point of even trying? Please. I'd take a year in the playoffs over a year in rebuilding any day of the week.

"We can talk about Postel, williams, Anderson, spree and whoever we want, the plain truth is that we are small, lacking skill and waiting for a guy who had 2 knee surgeries and who's game is based on Athleticism. "-The Knicks really aren't that small. Look at everyone else in the East. With McDyess back next year, they'll have a PF at 6'9", two backups who are 6'7" and 6'8" (true, Harrington and Spoon are small, but Spoon's an excellent rebounder and Harrington is effective in the post.) Thomas, at 6'9" is as big as any center in the East. Doleac, say all you want about him being white and having a bad haircut, he's a big body who can hit a 15' foot J, a very nice piece to have as a 10th or 11th guy on the bench. Look at the rest of the teams in the East and you're going to tell me they're a whole lot better then the Knicks.

Your whole plan is flawed. Blow up the Knicks, you cry. How would you like them to accomplish this goal? Nobody wnats our garbage. Nobody wants Houston and his ridiculous contract, and the same can be said about Anderson, Eisley, Weatherspoon, and a few others. How are you going to blow it up? Theres no way. They have to bite the damn bullet and play out Houston, Anderson, and Eisley's contracts. Theres no way to get them off the cap, so you just have to wait. Tough luck, if it takes until 2007 for this team to have salary cap flexibility so-be-it, I don't care, if the Knicks are going to make the playoffs every year until then and at least provide for some excitement I'll take it.

While I'm dying for Vujanic and McDyess to come over, you want "i mean guys with NBA games under their belts, like Odom,Q Richardson, Al Harrington,". Well, look at the Clips. They've been real succesful in their rebuilding venture. Tons and TONS of young talent. Odom, Brand, Richardson, Miller, Olowokandi. Please, this Knicks team is much better then them. Face it, the Knicks are in one ****ty predicament. They're getting old, they're pretty much overpaid, and that's that. Fortunately (even though apparently some Knicks fans are angry that they play hard every night), they come out to play every night and give everybody a run for their money. You mean to tell me that this team won't be differnet next year with a PG who fits in absolutely perfectly to this teams style of basketball (up and down, transition team who loves to shoot), and a big man who will help out the NBA's best shooting team, you're crazy. The Knicks will make the playoffs next year and be one of the top 5 teams in the East. We'll take it from there, but to hope that they "blow it up" and get young talent with "NBA games under their belt" is like hoping for the Knicks to get LeBron James, it'd be nice, but it just isn't happening.

Big smooth: I know more about basketball than you will ever understand. You and guys like Fmoran are Ok with just succeding in the east!!! That sucks, we have done that for years, I want a got damn ring!!!!!! That seems so hard for you guys to understand....

And to say the knicks are not that small is laughable and kills your credibility.. we have a 6'9 center, a 6'5 SF, a 6'6 PF and we are not small... and stop twisting, I mention guys like odom and Q and you bring up the clippers... those two guys are not the whole team and laugh at the clipps all you want they have more talent and a much brighter future than we do, at least they can break up that so called bad team!! we are stuck!!!

Then you say we are stuck with these contracts, just wait them out...well maybe but if that is the case then why are we holding on to spree and Kt and waiting for Dice to return? If we are stuck with these guys who are overpaid and suck then how is not rebuilding the way to go. by time eisley and Anderson and spoon's contract runs out , spree, Kt and Houston along with dice will be on the downside of their careers... What do we do then? Geniuses?

You agree that we have bad contracts but your remedy is to just sit and wait them out while we wait for a guy with two, TWO!! major knee surgeries to return? Got damn that is stupid!!

If we are smart we would build a younger deeper team around Dice, if he is the guy that you guys think will save us... I hope so, but I am being realistic..

We are not winning a ring with Houston, Spree, Milos , Dice and a draft pick, that is not going to win us a championship not with the bench we have!!!! No way...

Then you make the jackass comment about waiting for the next Kobe or shaq, listen here, You win with superstars, and with a guy like Lebron james and Darko Milicic in the draft I don't see why we are hoping for the playoffs!!!

Will we be better with Dice and Milos next year? I think so, but being better is not what I want, I want to win a ring.. while you guys enjoy early playoff exits.. you have to take one step back to take two forward fellas!!

Big smooth:
No offense but your new name should be

BIG CLUELESS!!!

If you read closely and I mean closely I know that Anderson, spoon and Eisley are not moveable that is why we need to move the players with value, spree, Kt, thella and ward...these guys are moveable and should be moved for younger players and picks, then it would make sense to groom these younger players and build a solid winning team for the future. Right now our team is stuck in the mud, good enough not to win and not bad enough to loose but with the NBA's highest payroll and a aging team... Get the picture BIG CLUELESS!!!

And don't be foolish, Spoon is not 6'7!!! Othella is not 6'9!! LOL!! come on dukes you sound like you have never seen a knick game to say that, either you believe that deep down or you are just damn foolish...either way I am laughging at you.. and by the way, Boston has Battie who is 7 feet tall, Walker is a legit 6'9, Pierce is 6'7 and they can start Williams who is 6'7 also at SF...
Ths sixers have height that can play plus they have a superstar in Ivy.
The magic, have T-mac who is a 6'8 stud, Gooden a 6'10 forward and they have height on that bench, The pacers have height with skill, and so do the nets with martin and a superstar PG... we have none of the above.....I can't believe you tried that line of logic on me..LOL!!

And the real idiot is you I have played Hs and college ball but unfortunately we didin't have to deal with a salary cap fool so what that has to do with this thread is beyond me, but I will break this down for you, I don't want the knicks to blow games, I just want them to commit to a plan, a real plan that involes rebuilding with younger more athletic skilled players...I don't give a damn about spoon, eisley and Anderson they can rot on the bench, it's our other so called core players that need blowing up.... The longer we wait the more painful this is going to be... reading doesn't seem to be your strong point but you don't tell guys like spree and Houston or Kt to lose you just trade them... It is time, You are waiting for contracts of bums to expire, eisley, spoon..LOL I am taking about rebuilding by using our core. Houston will remain but spree, KT, Othella, ward should have been gone. They are good players with moveable contracts.....

YOu have no clue.. BIG CLUELESS!!!

fmoran: you write long post that say absolutely nothing..

Get this through your dumb skull... The knicks suck because of Bad management....

With the contracts we can't move now we have no choice but to move the moveable contracts and replace them with younger players, guys like Odom, Q Richardson are very young players who are not only good now but have loads of potential. When Houston and Spree are set to retire these guys will be running this league. Don't get it twisted fool, the Clipps are not bad because they lack talent, they suck because their management is just as bad as ours is.. So Bigg smooth comparing the clipps is just plain ignorant!!!

Do you mean to tell me you wouldn't take odom and Brand over spree and KT now? or Andre miller over any Pg we have now? don't be stupid!!

Waiting for Dice with this same team is a losers mentality, Dice is comming off 2 major surgeries and if you want to see how major knee surgeries usually rob a player of his game just look at penny hardaway who is just 30 now and washed up!!! I hope this isn't the case for Dice but lets keep it real!!

you have a foolish outlook and a unrealistic one, losing LJ/ and longleys salary off the books still won't put us under the cap. And again if we were lucky enough to get James do you honeslty think that the knicks will bench either spree or Houston? come on dukes, you obviously don't know the knicks.. The fact that Frank williams was a 1st round pick and can't get burn over ward and eisley shows this team is short sighted and has no plans for the future, Ward and eisley are taking us nowhere!!!! The knicks basically find ways to kill any potential trade value their players may have and that is evident with the sprewell fiasco this year...

You have the nerve to complain about fans like me. you should be mad at yourself for accepting mediocrity so long....

What a fool you are!!

Once again you come off sounding like a 5 year old with your idiotic points and namecalling. Once again you have not even began to fathom the main message of my reply: where are we going to get these young players. Trade Spree, Ward, Harrington, and Thomas, and who are you going to get? Maybe something for Thomas. Certainly nothing for Harrington or anything significant for Ward and no great young player has a huge contract to match Sprees. So once again, taking all of the releveant information in mine and fmoran's posts and just butchering them so you sound correct. I am going to go through your post point by point and show you where you're wrong.

*-"Get this through your dumb skull... The knicks suck because of Bad management..."-I really don't think anyone is disputing that. Other then having Houston and Weatherspoon overpaid, Layden hasn't really done anything poorly. Scream all you want about Eisley and Anderson being overpaid (which they are) but Eisley has proved himself to be a starting PG and Anderson is the Knicks 6th man and a very effective one, both fit into Chaney's system. Oh, and what is Glen Rice doing nowadays (and since TKF probably doesn't know the answer to this question, he's getting splinters from riding the bench in Houston. Just, fyi, he was traded for Anderson and Eisley.)

*-"With the contracts we can't move now we have no choice but to move the moveable contracts and replace them with younger players, guys like Odom, Q Richardson are very young players who are not only good now but have loads of potential. When Houston and Spree are set to retire these guys will be running this league. Don't get it twisted fool, the Clipps are not bad because they lack talent, they suck because their management is just as bad as ours is.. So Bigg smooth comparing the clipps is just plain ignorant!!!"-Once again, how do you plan on acquiring these players. The Knicks roster is composed of players other teams do not want. The Clipps are bad because they are selfish and refuse to play team basketball. All are looking out for themselves. I wasn't comparing the Knicks to the Clippers, I was respondin to one of your ridiculous posts about getting guys like QRich, Al Harrington and Odom. I simply said look at what those teams are doing. Richardson has been god awful this year, Odom is an injury/drug suspension waiting to happen, and Al Harrington isn't going to be traded. How do you want the Knicks to get Odom or Richardson? TELL ME THAT. HAHA, PLEASE, I'm begging you, tell me how the Knicks get your players. Everybody is dying to know. They can't. Harrington, who do the Pacers want from the Knicks? Odom and Richardson? Yeah right, under the CBA, the Knicks would never be able to orchestrate a trade with the Clips becuase the Clips have zero big contracts and the Knicks have 12. Once again, another terrible point made.

*-"Do you mean to tell me you wouldn't take odom and Brand over spree and KT now? or Andre miller over any Pg we have now? don't be stupid!!"-Nobody said that. Fact of the matter is in 4 months Brand and Miller probably won't be on the Clips.

*-"Waiting for Dice with this same team is a losers mentality, Dice is comming off 2 major surgeries and if you want to see how major knee surgeries usually rob a player of his game just look at penny hardaway who is just 30 now and washed up!!! I hope this isn't the case for Dice but lets keep it real!!"-If McDyess isn't healthy, then what happens? Another lotto pick and he comes off the cap. Spree comes off the next season. That means the Knicks will have 2 lotto picks and over $25 million off the cap. Rebuilding can start then. Once again, like I have pointed out before, the Knicks can't rebuild now, it's impossible. They have too many contracts that CAN NOT be moved, and therefore they're stuck. Once again, like I've said (apparently you miss all the relevant points in mine and fmoran's posts), we, as Knicks fans, have to bite the bullet and accept the fact that this team is stuck with Spoon, Anderson, Eisley, and Houston until they're contracts run out.

"you have a foolish outlook and a unrealistic one, losing LJ/ and longleys salary off the books still won't put us under the cap. And again if we were lucky enough to get James do you honeslty think that the knicks will bench either spree or Houston? come on dukes, you obviously don't know the knicks.. The fact that Frank williams was a 1st round pick and can't get burn over ward and eisley shows this team is short sighted and has no plans for the future, Ward and eisley are taking us nowhere!!!! The knicks basically find ways to kill any potential trade value their players may have and that is evident with the sprewell fiasco this year..."-Is this a joke? This just goes to show your idiocy. Comparing Frank Williams to LeBron is sheer madness. Do I think the Knicks will be able to bench either Spree or Houston? Yeah. The Knicks really love Spree, haha, yeah right. They'd do that in 2 seconds. Plus, Dolan would demand that LeBron go in so he could milk it for every penny. You are an idiot for thinking the Knicks WOULDNT start him. Maybe nto right away, but by end of November/December, LeBron would start.
"h and to answer this stupid question, what the knicks can do is start dumping now. Trade spree. Kt, othella, ward, knight, all these guys now have good tradeable and expiring contracts. Trade for younger unproven players. Guys like Richardson and odom, and te Zach Randolphs, Guys like spree and Kt have more value to true contenders than they have to a knick team that needs to rebuild. This is what they should be doing now until dice comes back.. If dice fully heals and is his old self then you have some young players to build with, if Dice decides to leave you still have a good young group of players instead of your core being a group of aging veterans on the downside...The problem with trying to draft players while we still have this core group of guys is that the younger players will not get enough playing time to develop. It is proven that is the way NY does things...we need younger players who will play and develop now... Why you can't understand this is beyond me!!!"-Once again, this is just stupid. Tell us how you get these young players and I'll agree with you. Until then (and since there's no way to get these players), you will be laughed at by everyone here, not just me and fmoran.

Why you cannot comprehend the fact that the Knicks are stuck is beyond all of us.

you two guys are like hekyl and jekyl:
Two dumb birds:

Fmoran I am not going to reply to your post because you don't listen, I never mentioned trading spree and Kt for Brand and Odom. learn to read first then I may reply..

Big clueless: There were offers for spree, offers for Ward, and last year the suns inquired heavily for Othella, KT also was a hot commodity. I use Odom and Richardson as examples? have you ever heard of those before "examples" The problem is that the knicks should have started rebuilding after the loss to the raptors in the playoffs...

the problem you two idiots are leaving out is that the knicks with this current roster are good enough to almost make the playoffs but not bad enough to keep getting lottery picks high enough that will make a difference and when we do get them we make stupid trades like the Deyse trade... Your idea of waiting with this group is what got is un trouble in the first place...

And again my comparison was not to compare Lebron to frank williams but it is the mentality you two morons don't get... NY benches it draft picks and younger players not because Anderson is better than postel and not because ward is a better player for the knicks long term but because they have this foolish vision of making the playoffs and MSG getting paid, and they have fans like you two fooled!!!!!

Bench ward, eisley, Anderson. Let Postel, williams play, and at seasons end buy out wards contract. I guess you two fools also don't see that with this glut that Layden has created now our so called future star PG Milos is not sure he wants to come to NY next year..
and I can see you two sitting at your computer desks like two big doofs thinking of another stupid reply for why we don't need him next year when we are waiting out contracts anyway..LOL!!....

And whoever said that they don'g think Eisley and Anderson's contract are not that bad are STUPID!! Glen Rice is getting playing time in Houston and guess what. His contract is off the books after this year... Another stupid move....

Again to just wait our spree's contract and Kt's and the rest of those bums are stupid... The knicks have a history of bad drafts, spree has value, Kt has value and so does othella. It is time to back the truck up, take expiring contracts, younger players the whole shabang!! This could be done if layden stops trying to get back Payton for ward and KT!! That is stupid!!! He didn't even offer their best player in that deal and that is because he is hell bent on keeping this team together and making that one last run.. foolish..

But then again he has clowns like you fooled!!

PS: Fmoran you wouldn't have the balls to smack your girls booty if she asked you neverless someones face.... Punk!!!LOL!!

Posted by BigSm00th:

I'm simply not going to argue any more. My point has been made. Oh, by the way, I highly doubt you played college ball, because anyone with a college degree wouldn't incessantly use "LOL" and make up cheesy nicknames like "Big Clueless." My guess is you're 10 or 11. Grow up and get a clue.

You have no argument.. and just to bury you more, you ask what young talent can we get...

The pacers got Jermaine Oneal for Dale davis....
Corey Magetti was traded for a washed up horace grant
Ron Artest and Brad Miller were obtained for Jalen rose

Now Rose, Dale davis and Horace grant are about the equivalent of a player like spree and KT, the point being that magetti and Oneal were unproven players with loads of potential, those deals are still there but the knicks motto is to try to win now and sell tickets... You don't seem to realize that..

And by the way, You know nothing about me, Attended college, finished BA, Masters, been there done that...thinking about working on second masters but again what does that have to do with this thread....

Another one of your senseless points, like waiting until 2008 to contend for a title with Houston at age 36, shandon Anderson, and eisley with all the picks that layden has drafted...LOL..

and Yes LOL or how about LMAO!! is that better...

idiot!!

Amen.

"As far as the college thing, I will ignore showing you my diplomas and where I played: next!!!"-Ha, no matter what you say from now on you just can't be taken seriously. You're a liar and an idiot. All of your outrageous arguments have been put down post after post after post, then you come back and make the same points. While you write "LOL" and "ROFL" at points that aren't even near humorous, I can truly tell you I got a great laugh out of this response.

big smooth: this is why you have no credibility and are a joke, just read your own post for a laugh, and feel free to LOL, LMAO and all the other good stuff..

The Knicks really aren't that small. Look at everyone else in the East. With McDyess back next year, they'll have a PF at 6'9", two backups who are 6'7" and 6'8" (true, Harrington and Spoon are small, but Spoon's an excellent rebounder and Harrington is effective in the post.) Thomas, at 6'9" is as big as any center in the East. Doleac, say all you want about him being white and having a bad haircut, he's a big body who can hit a 15' foot J, a very nice piece to have as a 10th or 11th guy on the bench. Look at the rest of the teams in the East and you're going to tell me they're a whole lot better then the Knicks.

You have the nerve to butt into this thread with your idiocy, this is why you are a Joke, I just IM this to my friend and he is crying!!! Ha!!! Doleac a good 10 or 11th man off the bench is a classic, well stop the presses!!!! This is the difference maker for the knicks. ECF here we come... And harrington effective in the post!!! For crying out loud LOL!!! is that why the knicks shoot so many jumpers because harrington is a low post stud!!! LOL!!!! Damn you are foolish.. I may just put this in the realgm. board, they need a good laugh!!!

You better change your screen name, Big smooth is proving to be a big dummy!!