Posted by tkf:

Bad management, I don't want to hear there were no deals out there, we needed to start dumping this washed up team, this small team, this team of overpaid bums.... Layden offers Ward and Kt for payton, which is stupid, the bucks being serious offer their best player, allen and a bum in ollie and a decent player pryzbilla and get Payton and Mason a good young SG.

I am done with this boring to watch team, I really hope we lose the last 28 games, I want layden to get fired and Dolan to go Bankrupt and sell the team , this is the only way we will ever and I mean ever see good basketball in NY... we can keep hoping and wishishng for Dice to save this team but be for real the guy had 2 serious knee injuries... He is just about done IMO...

SAD state of affairs in NY!!!!

Well then you're gonna be bouncing with joy at this thought: just heard they traded Sprewell for Sam Cassel/Joel Prizbilla. Still waiting for confirmation, but if it's true, I blame ignorant fans like you. You who can't seem to grasp that our star power forward is injured, and that the Knicks are .500 when healthy WITHOUT him. That isn't something to blow up; that's something to build on.

Whatever, I'll chill until we get some confirmation, but at least there's something you can be hopeful for til then....

[Edited by - fmoran on 02/20/2003 18:13:28]

fmoran: watch who you call ignorant. I am realistic. even the trade for pryz and casell does nothing for us. what you must understand is that the knicks are going to have to take the tale end of trades in order to purge some contracts and bring in younger talent, we keep putting this off, this year, last year with the dice trade, the year before, etc. at one time or another we are going to have to committ to a serious plan, and I mean not waiting on a Pf with 2 major knee surgeries and a Euro PG who never played in the NBA..

Get a clue man.. get a clue!!!!!

tkf - I feel ya, dawg!! LOL

No matter where ya go, there I am!!

Posted by tkf:

Bad management, I don't want to hear there were no deals out there, we needed to start dumping this washed up team, this small team, this team of overpaid bums.... Layden offers Ward and Kt for payton, which is stupid, the bucks being serious offer their best player, allen and a bum in ollie and a decent player pryzbilla and get Payton and Mason a good young SG.

I am done with this boring to watch team, I really hope we lose the last 28 games, I want layden to get fired and Dolan to go Bankrupt and sell the team , this is the only way we will ever and I mean ever see good basketball in NY... we can keep hoping and wishishng for Dice to save this team but be for real the guy had 2 serious knee injuries... He is just about done IMO...

SAD state of affairs in NY!!!!

Knicks will suck because fans will continue to go to the games. One thing I have learned over the course as being a NYK fan is that we are our worst enemy. Why do you think that management doesn't want to rebuild because we like morons keep packing the stadium to watch the KNicks no matter how bad they are. They see this and managements eyes light up because they are still selling their poor product to thier customers and the customers keep buying no matter how bad they are. If only 10,000 fans show up for their games they would try and rebuild in a heart beat to get better talent so they could get to the playoffs but they feel no sense of urgency to get new talent they are content that they can sell a lousy Knicks team and still profit on them. Making the playoffs is icing on the cake for them. But if only 10,000 fans show up. they are tanking to get the next best thing in the draft there are no ifs and but about it. Because the fans keep going they are loving it no matter what happens. The Knicks as an organization couldn't give a rats *** about winning a championship. What is it now 30+ year

Bottom line is this... Layden is undecisive and overthinks things that are actually very simple, most of the times he does stupid things but every now and then he'll make some good moves like Milos, and not trading Spree for the sake of just trading him.

Although the Euroleague IS NOT THE NBA, Milos is considered right now the BEST PG in Europe, which is very exciting to me. BUT for McDyess to have "come back" from his injury at the beginning of the season, only to get reinjured makes me wonder if he will ever be 90% (forget 100%) and makes me wonder what kind of freakin trainers/doctors we have??!?!?! is it me or does it seem like the knicks are always injured/sore/hurting/whateva?

And not to take anything away from Chaney and the Knicks, the reason we are almost playing ".500 when injury free" is that our team is full of veterans and veterans know how to win games. Look at the Clippers, are you tellng me they don't have as much talent as we do? but look at their record(their coaching sucks too, bring Van Gundy in there and theyd be in the playoffs, but thats another post)

Another thing...i would never trade Kurt or Spree, why does everyone wanna trade Spree so badly? Do you honestly think his game has declined so much? I think his desire to win may have diminished because of Layden and Company but i still think he is valuable part of the Knicks, i don;t know if you have forgotten or have never watched the Ewing/Mason/Oaks/Starks days but the Knicks are a "special" kind of team, the Knicks are about players that have heart and pride bout repping NYC. I wouldn't take Van Horn for free.

You don't trade players like Kurt(playin at almost an all-star level) for unproven players, you instead gamble away solid, average players for possible stars.

Last thing... can anyone name a single player that has come back from a SERIOUS INJURY and finished his career healthy and with the same numbers? Let me name a few who haven't. LJ, Grant Hill, Rice, Camby. That's one thing management has to stop is gambling on injured players. Basketball is probably the riskiest sport in terms of players coming back from injuries, more then baseball of football.

PS the games at MSG are so empty its funny.

fmoran... a little heavy handed, no??? You might want to breathe a bit. Some of your proposals have been less than realistic and less than helpful talent-wise. Cut some slack .

Do I even need to say who I'm replying to: Ok. Let's have another go at this:

* You said you honestly wanted to keep Houston. Wanted. Not "were forced to". Don't go back on that.

* Stop. Just stop. Don't even start with the "we need a superstar to build on" line. Go play NBA 2K3 and get the Knicks a Duncan or Kobe. Play a couple games, enjoy, then come back down to reality. Gracias.

* Why would anyone trade expiring contracts for a 5-year commitment? Yeah, I'll give ya this: those extensions are plenty a reason to call for Layden's head. And the reason being that Eisley/Anderson are now untradeable. And this is not a mess with a quick and easy "Undo" button. So stop trying to push it.

* Let me ask you: would we really be better off trading Spree? His contract runs out soon enough, and since we'd basically be getting nothing by trading for expiring contracts anyways, wouldn't it be better to ride him out? It's this kind of desperate irrationality that can ruin a franchise. We could be a lot worse right now and in the future (Van Horn, anyone?). And get the idea out of your head that any team would take Eisley/Anderson with Spree. Those two were big time deal killers this past trade deadline. No one wanted to take back big contracts.

* Do I play basketball? All the time. Don't know what that has to do with anything. Is my opinion worth more to you now?

* You're blinded by trying to pour salt on a wound and making any realistic solution seem insufficient. You're blatantly contradicting yourself: we need young, up and coming talent, yet looking to Milos for the future is a bad idea because he isn't as experienced? Do you think any young, up and coming talents have a lot of experience? Brick. Do you even know who Milos is? He's averaging 25 ppg, significantly more than last year. He just happened to blow up a year after we stole him, plain and simple. Do you really think he'd be a second rounder this year? This is something to celebrate as Knick fans! And you? You look at his draft position and cry. It's the only thing you're basing the negativity on. That and his on court position. Here's a couple second rounders to sink your teeth into: Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Cuttino Mobley, Michael Redd, and Alvin Williams. Sure, pg is the hardest position to learn, but why does that mean we can't expect contributions from the guy? Just because he's a rookie? Than what do you call Jamaal Tinsley and Tony Parker? I call them great rookie point guards who fell way too far in the draft. Swish.

* Who's banking on Dice for the future? I'm banking on him for the now. And if he comes back fully recovered with no further injuries, it's all a bonus. If he never plays a regular season game with the Knicks, than he's gone after next year. More money off the payroll, and we look where we can go from there. But we don't count him out yet. That's what I've been saying!! He's a wildcard right now, and the payoff would be colossal. Think about it. What can we do now in terms of rebuilding now that we can't do as good or even better if Dice never comes back and we waive his salary?

* Man, I can just imagine you with a Swashbuckler laugh. For that, I laugh at you. Mwuah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah. En guarde, Rapscallian!



[Edited by - fmoran on 02/28/2003 08:20:30]

You have the most ignorant views ever. And you ask me if I play basketball? Like your participation in some adult league gives you NBA GM credibility. Why don't you give me you're season stat line while you're at it. Oh, 45% FG? Maybe you are right about Milos. Hahaha.

(I liked the point form reply, so instead of switching it up with somethin new, i'll stick with that that, homes.)

* Any young player is a gamble, because you expect the potential to pay off. You don't expect them to stay the same, you expect them to get better and being young, there's plenty of time to do that.

* Oh no! We better stop drafting players then! They sure don't have any NBA games under their belts. Whoever wins the lottery is gonna be sorry for drafting LeBron too, cause he sure doesn't have any NBA games under his belt. And let's not even mention Yao Ming. Did anyone really expect a tall chinese guy who didn't have any NBA games under his belt to succeed? And I'm sure the Spurs are kicking themselves for gambling on Tony Parker. How many games did he have under his belt when he entered the League? Thought so.

* I mentioned guys like Lewis, Mobley, and Arenas so you'd stop bitching about Milos being drafted in the second round. Gracias.

* You don't know what the word realistic means. Realistic to you is never expecting draft picks to do anything, trading away all your question marks and overpaid players for expiring contracts and young talent (like Odom, Harrignton, and Q), and doing this all in a span of what? A year? Two? Get a clue.

* Man, the NBA 2K3 joke flew right over ya, huh? Ok, let's make this simpler: the only way playing basketball would make a difference in how I see the pros would be if I was playin there. I'm not any more realistic on franchise salaries for playing PG on my HS squad. Does this make any sense to you? It's like saying "I play basketball, and you probably don't, so I'm right and you're wrong."

* "I know there is no quick fix, but there is a quikcer fix.."

Umm yeah...

* How is waiting for this core of guys to play "tired"? What, half a season is tiring for you? You're watching the wrong sport then. You make it sound like we've been waiting for Dice to return for years. But when he gets back, it won't be so easy at tha garden no mo'.

* "but again as a realistic fan I know that even with milos and dice, we still have a unbalanced, overpaid roster, with not height, and you are being suckered and for that "

So? If that comes along with an Eastern Conference championship, I'm all for it! And I know you aren't gonna sit here and tell me that with Dice we aren't one of the top teams in the East. I mean you'd really have to hate the Knicks to say that. Depth is great and all, but how deep are the Nets? Or the Sixers (currently 4th)? Yeah, the payroll sucks. But realistically speaking, it's something you have to deal with. Everything is not hopeless. Everything I've suggestested isn't some whacky, unrealistic idea. We already have Dice and Milos, yet you're counting them out without having seen them play on the Knicks. I think next season we are gonna be the biggest surprise in the league. Won't be easy at tha garden no mo'.

* In closing, what the hell is wrong with you. I mean, really? We shouldn't gamble on draft picks? Dice won't do anything when he returns? Milos isn't the type of young talent we need? I bet as you're reading this, you are thinking "Exactly! He's finally getting it!" I'll ask again the same question you conveniently ignored in your last reply: what can we do now in terms of rebuilding now that we can't do as good or even better if Dice never comes back and we waive his salary, on top of not having Longley/LJ's salaries either?

*If Williams and Postell deserve to play, they will. They get all the minutes they want in practice, but they haven't impressed anyone. The way Williams was playing early on, I woulda put him away too. Ward and Eisley are better players. He was a real let down. But since then, he has improved, and will get more minutes if he continues to improve. Postell, on the other hand, can stay where he is. Anderson is a much better player this year.

*The Nets have depth? Are they even a playoff team without Kidd? Are they even close? I guess we'll find out next year...

*We have a lot of holes? I can think of lacking a center, but that's it. Give me McDyess, a big, defensive center, and we've got a top East team. The guys we have together now are overacheiving because of the chemistry they have together. It's not as desolate as you make it sound. Getting a couple young big bodies in the draft will address that. Other than that I don't know what you're complaining about...Do we have holes in at the PG? I only see the PF/C position and we should be greatly improved their next season. You cna complain about age all you want, but why do you suppose a team with so much heigh, so much talent, and so much youth like, say, the Clippers, suck so much? Lack of veterans, for one, and lack of chemistry. I'd rather be us, cause you can't draft chemistry.

*"I would love to have a lebron James, but if all he is going to do is play behind spree, Houston and Anderson then we are defeating the pupose"

Yeah, I'm sure LeBron would sit on the bench. Probably because management hates talent and winnning, right? Are you hearing yourself? I know you're in love with Postell and Williams, but trust me, they wouldn't be starting anywhere else either. They'd have to be on a really bad team to see more minutes than they do here.

*I hear this everytime I strike up a conversation about the Knicks: "All they can do is compete for the 8th spot. They're stuck in no man's land, a 35 win season." Huh? I'd agree with you if this team was 100% healthy and we were still failing. Then we'd suck horribly (Atlanta). But all this season proves to me is that without McDyess, the Knicks are a playoff team (.500 with Sprewell). With Dice, and his 20 and 10, and Milos, and a lottery pick?!? That's hardly no man's land. That's 50 win land.

*I'm not the one being suckered. Byron and all these Nets fans have you suckered into thinking our team isn't in their league, when really, we are one player away, and he's coming next season. And come 03-04, we'll see who makes the playoffs, and who's left behind.

[Edited by - fmoran on 03/09/2003 19:28:37]