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lee's splits for the past 2 seasons
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djsunyc
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3/5/2007  3:18 PM 

2006/2007
      min    pts   fga   fg%    fta   ft%    reb   blks
nov   25.7   10.1  6.5   63.6   2.3   82.1   9.1   0.4
dec   34.5   11.1  7.6   61.5   2.4   71.8   11.9  0.6
jan   32.4   11.7  7.5   56.3   4.0   83.3   11.9  0.2
feb   31.7   12.7  6.7   61.7   5.0   88.6   9.4   0.7

2005/2006
      min    pts   fga   fg%    fta   ft%    reb   blks
nov   12.1   3.5   2.7   46.7   1.5   62.5   4.5   0.3
dec   13.0   3.2   2.3   42.9   2.2   53.8   3.0   0.5
jan   23.1   6.7   4.2   68.3   1.7   57.7   6.3   0.3
feb   11.9   3.2   1.9   61.9   1.4   60.0   2.6   0.1
mar   18.4   6.1   4.1   58.5   2.5   51.5   4.9   0.5
apr   18.2   6.6   4.5   61.2   1.8   65.0   4.4   0.2


these are his per minute #'s


         06/07           05/06
         1697 mins       1129 mins
pts      0.36            0.31
fga's    0.23            0.20
fta's    0.10            0.11
rebs     0.35            0.27
blks     0.01            0.02
AUTOADVERT
TMS
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3/5/2007  3:32 PM
see, this is what the fallacy is about using "per minute" stats... judging from that you'd say he didn't really improve much except for his FT shooting, but anyone who's watched him play would know he's improved leaps & bounds from last season.

same goes for Curry... that's why i hate those per 48 minute type statlines... they're very skewed & misleading.
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Masterplan
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3/5/2007  3:34 PM
Posted by TMS:

see, this is what the fallacy is about using "per minute" stats... judging from that you'd say he didn't really improve much except for his FT shooting, but anyone who's watched him play would know he's improved leaps & bounds from last season.

same goes for Curry... that's why i hate those per 48 minute type statlines... they're very skewed & misleading.

i disagree, i think those numbers are big improvements, especially rebounding. it just looks small because it's per minute, not per 40 or 48.
Masterplan
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3/5/2007  3:36 PM
^^^ lee's getting 2 points and 3+ rebounds more per 40 minutes than last season.
TMS
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3/5/2007  3:36 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by TMS:

see, this is what the fallacy is about using "per minute" stats... judging from that you'd say he didn't really improve much except for his FT shooting, but anyone who's watched him play would know he's improved leaps & bounds from last season.

same goes for Curry... that's why i hate those per 48 minute type statlines... they're very skewed & misleading.

i disagree, i think those numbers are big improvements, especially rebounding. it just looks small because it's per minute, not per 40 or 48.

where do u see the huge improvement in the #'s aside from the FT shooting? the FG % has stayed relatively the same... just an increase in minutes resulting in more shot & FT attempts... that's the same difference you can see in the Curry example.
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djsunyc
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3/5/2007  3:38 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by TMS:

see, this is what the fallacy is about using "per minute" stats... judging from that you'd say he didn't really improve much except for his FT shooting, but anyone who's watched him play would know he's improved leaps & bounds from last season.

same goes for Curry... that's why i hate those per 48 minute type statlines... they're very skewed & misleading.

i disagree, i think those numbers are big improvements, especially rebounding. it just looks small because it's per minute, not per 40 or 48.

here are his per minute numbers prorated to 40 mins:


         06/07           05/06
         1697 mins       1129 mins
pts      14.4            12.4
fga's    9.2             8.0
fta's    4.0             4.4
rebs     14.0            10.8
blks     0.4             0.8
oohah
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3/5/2007  3:41 PM
Those numbers show why Lee should have been starting since December last year. He was good enough then, he's good enough now.

Only last year, it was okay for Rose to start in front of him for some reason while he racked up DNP's. This year at least he is getting the time so I am not as unhappy with his use.

oohah

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djsunyc
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3/5/2007  3:45 PM
Posted by oohah:

Those numbers show why Lee should have been starting since December last year. He was good enough then, he's good enough now.

Only last year, it was okay for Rose to start in front of him for some reason while he racked up DNP's. This year at least he is getting the time so I am not as unhappy with his use.

oohah

i just want to point something out...i don't know if it has any weight or not but the month his minutes took a SIGNIFICANT dip was february...which so happens to be the trade deadline. it's quite possible that we were showcasing other players in an attempt to move them while david was part of the plans all the while (and we had ALOT of forwards to showcase at that point in time). b/c his minutes spike back up after february. so that is a possibility.
Masterplan
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3/5/2007  3:58 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by TMS:

see, this is what the fallacy is about using "per minute" stats... judging from that you'd say he didn't really improve much except for his FT shooting, but anyone who's watched him play would know he's improved leaps & bounds from last season.

same goes for Curry... that's why i hate those per 48 minute type statlines... they're very skewed & misleading.

i disagree, i think those numbers are big improvements, especially rebounding. it just looks small because it's per minute, not per 40 or 48.

where do u see the huge improvement in the #'s aside from the FT shooting? the FG % has stayed relatively the same... just an increase in minutes resulting in more shot & FT attempts... that's the same difference you can see in the Curry example.

3+ rpg better per 40 minutes- that's the big one. the rest are less significant, but i like the higher points per 40 minutes, that his lowest FG% month was 56% and not 42%, you said the FT%. enough small increases and the one big one and i'm happy with what i see. i'd still love to see him healthy on the court even more though.
tomverve
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3/5/2007  4:22 PM
The per minute stats highlight the improved quality of Lee's game. If you look at the per game stats you have quality of play confounded with just raw production, which is a different beast. If Lee's per minute stats were identical to what they were last year, we could say that Lee was producing a lot more (due to more floor time) but we could not say he was a higher quality player.

To say that Lee's per minute production this year is not much better than last year is plainly false. A quick and easy way to look at this is to look at Lee's PER, which removes statistical confounds from boxscore stats arising from minutes played and pace. Last season Lee's PER was 15.4, which is about the NBA average. This season he's at 20.6, which is borderline All-Star level.
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nyk4ever
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3/5/2007  4:24 PM
Tom always good with the stats. You explain it in plain english too, which is nice
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tomverve
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3/5/2007  4:52 PM
Also, the leap from 11 rebounds per 40 to 14 rebounds per 40 is huge. If you look at the career leaders in rebounds per 40 since 1980, you find that 11 boards per 40 over your career would get you around the 70th best ranking, nearby players like Elton Brand, Shawn Marion and Rick Mahorn. 14 boards per 40 would be good for 3rd place, behind Dennis Rodman and Larry Smith and just ahead of Moses Malone, Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo. So the difference in Lee's per minute rebound rates is the difference between very good rebounder and elite rebounder.

A slightly better stat for judging rebounds than rebounds per 40 is rebound rate. The number of rebounding opportunities per minute a player gets changes depending on how fast his team plays and how well his team plays defense. The rebound rate stat removes these confounds due to number of rebounding opportunities and so gives us an even purer measure of a player's rebounding skill. This season Lee has a rebound rate of 20.4, which is neck and neck with Dwight Howard (20.5) and Tyson Chandler (20.5) for tops in the NBA.

The 20% improvement in FT shooting is also just incredible. I imagine that would rank highly on the list of all time FT% improvements over back-to-back seasons.
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Ira
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3/5/2007  5:16 PM
Lee's rebounds declined significantly in Feb of this year. Does anyone know why?
Solace
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3/5/2007  5:20 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by TMS:

see, this is what the fallacy is about using "per minute" stats... judging from that you'd say he didn't really improve much except for his FT shooting, but anyone who's watched him play would know he's improved leaps & bounds from last season.

same goes for Curry... that's why i hate those per 48 minute type statlines... they're very skewed & misleading.

i disagree, i think those numbers are big improvements, especially rebounding. it just looks small because it's per minute, not per 40 or 48.

Agreed. Posting per minute was a bad choice. That's like showing fat content of a cookie on a per crumb basis.
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tomverve
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3/5/2007  5:26 PM
Posted by Ira:

Lee's rebounds declined significantly in Feb of this year. Does anyone know why?

Lee played only 7 games in Feb. and one of those games just happened to be a particularly subpar rebounding outing for him (4 reb in 29 min against LAL). I don't think the dip in his Feb numbers bears any real meaning. It's probably just normal fluctuation crossed with small sample size.
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Ira
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3/5/2007  5:27 PM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by Ira:

Lee's rebounds declined significantly in Feb of this year. Does anyone know why?

Lee played only 7 games in Feb. and one of those games just happened to be a particularly subpar rebounding outing for him (4 reb in 29 min against LAL). I don't think the dip in his Feb numbers bears any real meaning. It's probably just normal fluctuation crossed with small sample size.

That makes sense. Thanks.
PresIke
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3/6/2007  12:36 AM
Well one thing I noticed -- outside of the numbers -- is that in the game he got injured in, against the Bucks, Isiah was actually featuring him on offense. I dunno if anyone else noticed this, which I mentioned to my friend GIJoe who was at the game with me, and another guy sitting near us agreed with me as well.

When they couldn't get the ball to Curry from good double teaming, the Knicks started giving Lee the ball in the post, and he was seriously taking his man to the rack, off of post ups, and the guards were actually feeding him the ball...it was really interesting. Which made it stink all the more that he got injured then because it seemed like his offensive game confidence was growing right there on the court.
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lee's splits for the past 2 seasons
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