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Forbes: Isiah the 82nd best (of 98) GMs
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Masterplan
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3/5/2007  10:06 AM
http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/03/02/sports-greatest-gms-biz-cz_jg_0302gms.html

based on two-thirds winning % increase, one-third payroll deduction (both relative to league medians). IT gets slammed in the rankings for spending more and winning less than predecessor.

an interesting system, sacrifices a lot of detail for the sake of ranking across sports. so take the number with a grain of salt. the article doesn't even mention IT except in the complete rankings.
AUTOADVERT
Masterplan
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3/5/2007  10:09 AM
oh yeah, should mention, the #1 GM in the rankings is McHale from the T-Wolves. file that under "grain of salt recommended" for the article.

one other incidental thought: only GMs with 3 years on the job were included. IT barely made the cut that way- but it is interesting they picked that particular time frame.
MS
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3/5/2007  10:09 AM
This website should be shut down, Kevin McChale perphaps the worst gm in basketball was rated the best gm.

Forbes should be sued
arkrud
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3/5/2007  10:15 AM
Is this relevant?
If somebody will ask all owners in NBA (and in WNBA) if they will hire IT like GM I am sure no one will say "Yes"
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Masterplan
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3/5/2007  10:34 AM
Posted by MS:

This website should be shut down, Kevin McChale perphaps the worst gm in basketball was rated the best gm.

Forbes should be sued

heh and billy king (76ers) is #3.
VDesai
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3/5/2007  10:35 AM
That list is quite possibly the worst article ever written about sports. Kevin McHale is the best overall GM and freaking Bryan Colangelo is 5th from bottom or like 2nd worst GM for basketball. Complete joke of a list.
TheGame
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3/5/2007  10:42 AM
Posted by VDesai:

That list is quite possibly the worst article ever written about sports. Kevin McHale is the best overall GM and freaking Bryan Colangelo is 5th from bottom or like 2nd worst GM for basketball. Complete joke of a list.

Agreed. Any article that would list Mchale as the #1 GM is not worth reading. In fact, I stopped after I saw that. I think even Islesfan would agree that McHale is a worse GM than Isiah.
Trust the Process
Solace
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3/5/2007  10:51 AM
The criteria in this article was screwy. The major pieces were payroll vs. precedessor, and relative winning percentage vs. the predecessor. Immediately that second factor throws off the entire calculation, since any GM joining a decent to good team is immediately penalized, and a GM joining a terrible team is immediately rewarded in this calculation. Terrible criteria. A GM who takes over a good team and keeps it good should get a good mark also... and should certainly be better than the GM who takes over a bad team and the team doesn't improve.

What's actually funny is, if they didn't use such ridiculous criteria, I think Isiah scores lower in this chart.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
islesfan
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3/5/2007  10:58 AM
Posted by Masterplan:

oh yeah, should mention, the #1 GM in the rankings is McHale from the T-Wolves. file that under "grain of salt recommended" for the article.

one other incidental thought: only GMs with 3 years on the job were included. IT barely made the cut that way- but it is interesting they picked that particular time frame.

Well no sense reading that article now.

Even I wouldn't bother using it to bash Isiah if McHale is #1 and Billy King is #3 in the ranking.

I had such high hopes when I saw the title of the thread too.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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3/5/2007  11:00 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Masterplan:

oh yeah, should mention, the #1 GM in the rankings is McHale from the T-Wolves. file that under "grain of salt recommended" for the article.

one other incidental thought: only GMs with 3 years on the job were included. IT barely made the cut that way- but it is interesting they picked that particular time frame.

Well no sense reading that article now.

Even I wouldn't bother using it to bash Isiah if McHale is #1 and Billy King is #3 in the ranking.

I had such high hopes when I saw the title of the thread too.

Also, how the Oakland A's made it so low, at 26th overall (highest in MLB) is ridiculous. They should easily be top 5 with what they've done with their small payroll.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
islesfan
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3/5/2007  11:03 AM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by VDesai:

That list is quite possibly the worst article ever written about sports. Kevin McHale is the best overall GM and freaking Bryan Colangelo is 5th from bottom or like 2nd worst GM for basketball. Complete joke of a list.

Agreed. Any article that would list Mchale as the #1 GM is not worth reading. In fact, I stopped after I saw that. I think even Islesfan would agree that McHale is a worse GM than Isiah.

McHale has drafted a legit franchise player to build around and has gotten a team to the conference finals. The Wolves were also an elite team for a few years under McHale.

What has Isiah done? Well he did get his team to the playoffs with a below .500 record and might do it again. That's some success.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Masterplan
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3/5/2007  11:14 AM
heh sorry for posting this without looking all the way through. saw the link, read it, sounded interesting, looked for IT, and thought it would generate some discussion. thought the mchale thing was weird, but didn't realize how wacky the rankings as a whole were.

to be fair, though, it's a business magazine, not sports. most owners in sports want to maximize wins for reasonable dollars. i think there are realtively few owners who genuinely really want that championship, not just doing good and making money- steinbrenner, mark cuban, etc.
TheGame
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3/5/2007  11:20 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by VDesai:

That list is quite possibly the worst article ever written about sports. Kevin McHale is the best overall GM and freaking Bryan Colangelo is 5th from bottom or like 2nd worst GM for basketball. Complete joke of a list.

Agreed. Any article that would list Mchale as the #1 GM is not worth reading. In fact, I stopped after I saw that. I think even Islesfan would agree that McHale is a worse GM than Isiah.

McHale has drafted a legit franchise player to build around and has gotten a team to the conference finals. The Wolves were also an elite team for a few years under McHale.

What has Isiah done? Well he did get his team to the playoffs with a below .500 record and might do it again. That's some success.

I guess I stand corrected. But IMO, there are 4-5 GM's that I would rate worse than IT.

[Edited by - thegame on 03-05-2007 11:21 AM]
Trust the Process
nixluva
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3/5/2007  12:02 PM
McHale had a good start in Minny, but after Steph and Gugs left, there really hasn't been much to talk about except for that one season they got past the 1st rd. They had some good seasons, but he was never able to get them over the hump. Isiah started with a MUCH harder road to build this team from. People want to overlook that HUGE point, but let's face it, this team was a mess before he got here.

Isiah's moves in the 1st year and a half 2003-04 and 2004-05 had him clearly searching to make it work with the old guard. Starting with the trade deadline in 05, he started to redirect the team and since then has made the moves that gave us this current unit. 2005-06 and this season have been about the future of this team.

Do you guys who bash Isiah actually THINK about the time frame we're dealing with. 1.5 years spent trying to please Dolan and make it work with H2O and KT. The last 1.5 years he's been rebuilding this team with a new cast of younger players. Curry, Frye, Lee, Quentin, Nate, Jared, Balkman, Collins. Of course Jamal is in that mix too. Man that's NOT A LONG TIME! At the end of this season he would've been on the job for 3.5 seasons. The team is relevant again. If you're realistic about this, he did this in a very reasonable amount of time. The payroll is gonna shrink and the talent is gonna increase so to me he doesn't belong on any list of bad GM's.
islesfan
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3/5/2007  12:23 PM
Posted by nixluva:

McHale had a good start in Minny, but after Steph and Gugs left, there really hasn't been much to talk about except for that one season they got past the 1st rd. They had some good seasons, but he was never able to get them over the hump. Isiah started with a MUCH harder road to build this team from. People want to overlook that HUGE point, but let's face it, this team was a mess before he got here.

Isiah's moves in the 1st year and a half 2003-04 and 2004-05 had him clearly searching to make it work with the old guard. Starting with the trade deadline in 05, he started to redirect the team and since then has made the moves that gave us this current unit. 2005-06 and this season have been about the future of this team.

Do you guys who bash Isiah actually THINK about the time frame we're dealing with. 1.5 years spent trying to please Dolan and make it work with H2O and KT. The last 1.5 years he's been rebuilding this team with a new cast of younger players. Curry, Frye, Lee, Quentin, Nate, Jared, Balkman, Collins. Of course Jamal is in that mix too. Man that's NOT A LONG TIME! At the end of this season he would've been on the job for 3.5 seasons. The team is relevant again. If you're realistic about this, he did this in a very reasonable amount of time. The payroll is gonna shrink and the talent is gonna increase so to me he doesn't belong on any list of bad GM's.

Of course to you he doesn't. You're on his payroll of moles.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
VDesai
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3/5/2007  1:29 PM
Let's just keep it simple for a second. Would the best GM in sports essentially give up multiple no.1 picks in order to sign a very mediocre player like Joe Smith?
Solace
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3/5/2007  1:41 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nixluva:

McHale had a good start in Minny, but after Steph and Gugs left, there really hasn't been much to talk about except for that one season they got past the 1st rd. They had some good seasons, but he was never able to get them over the hump. Isiah started with a MUCH harder road to build this team from. People want to overlook that HUGE point, but let's face it, this team was a mess before he got here.

Isiah's moves in the 1st year and a half 2003-04 and 2004-05 had him clearly searching to make it work with the old guard. Starting with the trade deadline in 05, he started to redirect the team and since then has made the moves that gave us this current unit. 2005-06 and this season have been about the future of this team.

Do you guys who bash Isiah actually THINK about the time frame we're dealing with. 1.5 years spent trying to please Dolan and make it work with H2O and KT. The last 1.5 years he's been rebuilding this team with a new cast of younger players. Curry, Frye, Lee, Quentin, Nate, Jared, Balkman, Collins. Of course Jamal is in that mix too. Man that's NOT A LONG TIME! At the end of this season he would've been on the job for 3.5 seasons. The team is relevant again. If you're realistic about this, he did this in a very reasonable amount of time. The payroll is gonna shrink and the talent is gonna increase so to me he doesn't belong on any list of bad GM's.

Of course to you he doesn't. You're on his payroll of moles.

LOL. I tried to read his post but then I remembered that if I wanted to hear blatant lies I could just hear Isiah say them himself.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
4949
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3/5/2007  10:32 PM
Posted by Masterplan:

http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/03/02/sports-greatest-gms-biz-cz_jg_0302gms.html

based on two-thirds winning % increase, one-third payroll deduction (both relative to league medians). IT gets slammed in the rankings for spending more and winning less than predecessor.

an interesting system, sacrifices a lot of detail for the sake of ranking across sports. so take the number with a grain of salt. the article doesn't even mention IT except in the complete rankings.

That pretty much sums up what I have been criticizing lately. This is why I think he needs to go. All of these resources at his dissposal and so little to show for it, because of misjudgement and mismanagement on how to use it.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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Forbes: Isiah the 82nd best (of 98) GMs
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