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Isiah's record after 50 games in his 1st year at Indiana? 22-28
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crzymdups
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2/9/2007  4:55 PM
...and they made the playoffs. I posted this in another thread, but this seems to be worth it's own thread.

The Pacers in 00-01 finished 41-41 and made the playoffs as the youngest team ever to do so. They have the exact same record as we do now, in Isiah's first year in New York (as coach).

The situations are similar, they had JOneal, a young post player in his first year with Thomas (first year with Thomas 13ppg, 10rpg, 2bpg; second year with Thomas 19.5ppg, 10rpg, 3bpg) and made a trade to get two other young front court players: Brad Miller and Ron Artest.

In Thomas' second year as Pacers coach the team went 25-25 after 50 games. In his third year they were 35-15 after 50 games and considered the best team in the East (unfortunately as always happens with the Pacers, seemingly, they were undone by tragedy, fights, player's parents committing suicide and all sorts of awful stuff).

STILL, the situations are similar.
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islesfan
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2/9/2007  5:03 PM
O'Neal is a legit franchise player.

Artest was a major addition that we will most likely not duplicate.

O'Neal made major improvements in future season that can't be expected of Curry.

Brad Miller was a future all star center.

Reggie Miller was still playing at an all star level.

The situations aren't close to being similar.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
crzymdups
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2/9/2007  5:05 PM
Curry is a future all-star center.

DLee is a future all-star forward.

Marbury is still playing at an all-star level (at least as much as Miller was), but no one outside NY would ever admit it.

we have Frye, Nate and other pieces to make an Artest type addition.


also, it's Isiah's first year coaching a young team, so I would say that's similar. just because you rate our talent differently than their's with the benefit of hindsight doesn't mean you're right. doesn't mean I'm right either, which is why I said the situations are SIMILAR.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 02-09-2007 5:07 PM]
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islesfan
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2/9/2007  5:17 PM
O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.

I think very highly of Lee but he's a future all star forward like Oakley was.

Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level. Miller was still averaging 19 a game, the same 19 that people want to make Curry look like a God for.

Frye's value has plummetted, Nate's is even lower and there's no chance of adding an all NBA defender who scores 20 pts a game.

The only thing similar is that this is Isiah's first year coaching this team.

The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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2/9/2007  5:30 PM
Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level.

i have to disagree w/u there... if you discount his struggles earlier in the season, & look at how he's played since that "talk w/Magic" night, he's played at an elite level... u know how much i hate to say it, but he's actually been a positive presence on this team, & that's a shock & a half.
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islesfan
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2/9/2007  5:46 PM
Posted by TMS:
Marbury is playing nowhere near an all star level.

i have to disagree w/u there... if you discount his struggles earlier in the season, & look at how he's played since that "talk w/Magic" night, he's played at an elite level... u know how much i hate to say it, but he's actually been a positive presence on this team, & that's a shock & a half.

To me, "near an all star level" means that he's playing close to the best in the entire league at his position. IMHO, if you think Marbury is playing at that level you're crazy.

That doesn't mean that I don't think he's playing well. There's a difference.

[Edited by - islesfan on 02-09-2007 5:46 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Silverfuel
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2/9/2007  5:50 PM
excellent find. good job crzymdups. I seriously hope we can replicate what Isiah did with Indiana. Lets see what we can do for the rest of the season.
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nyk4ever
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2/9/2007  5:51 PM
Hopefully if this team does make it to the playoffs for 3 consecutive years that they don't lose in the 1st round all 3 times like the Pacers did.
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Anji
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2/9/2007  5:55 PM
We would be as good as the vaunted Bulls though(1 exit away)..................stuff happens.

[Edited by - anji on 02-09-2007 7:43 PM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
crzymdups
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2/9/2007  7:37 PM
Posted by islesfan:

O'Neal is a franchise player, Curry is not.


The Pacers upside was far greater and even then they underachieved under Isiah in his 3 years there.

Curry being a franchise player remains to be seen. He's still five or six years younger than JOneal.

I'm sorry, while I can see some of your other points - how can the youngest team ever to make the playoffs be considered "underachieving"? They were right on course in Isiah's third year at 35-15, best record in the East, when both Artest and O'neal had serious problems with their parents and Tinsley got injured. That's not underachieving, that's circumstantial. And it's worth noting that Isiah controlled Artest better than anyone else in the league. The first season after Isiah left Artest had that embarassing incident with Riley on the sideline, cost the Pacers a chance at the Finals by imploding against Detroit and commiting flagrants all over the place and then the start of the following season Artest totally lost his mind. An incident which was made worse by Bird trading Al Harrington for the powder keg known as Stephen Jackson.
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Anji
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2/9/2007  7:47 PM
DJ-they lost all 3 playoff series but the underachieving that isles is talking about is b/c that in 2 of the 3 series, they were the higher seed.


The last one they were the home team. Pacers got beat by the sixers year one abd Nets year two. Boston year three was the bad year they should have won as the higher seed.

[Edited by - anji on 02-09-2007 7:48 PM]

[Edited by - anji on 02-09-2007 7:48 PM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
djsunyc
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2/9/2007  7:49 PM
2001 (41-41) - 8th seed, lost to 1st seed philly 3-1
2002 (42-40) - 8th seed, lost to 1st seed nj 3-2
2003 (48-34) - 3rd seed, lost to 6th seed bos 4-2
djsunyc
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2/9/2007  7:49 PM
Posted by Anji:

DJ-they lost all 3 playoff series but the underachieving that isles is talking about is b/c that in 2 of the 3 series, they were the higher seed.


The last one they were the home team. Pacers got beat by the sixers year one abd Nets year two. Boston year three was the bad year they should have won as the higher seed.

[Edited by - anji on 02-09-2007 7:48 PM]

[Edited by - anji on 02-09-2007 7:48 PM]

you're right, i deleted my post.
djsunyc
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2/9/2007  7:52 PM
in 2002 - they were .500 all the way through the entire season
in 2003 - they were 33-12, then finished up 15-22
newyorknewyork
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2/9/2007  7:55 PM
They were 35-15 and then fell off down the stretch because J'Oneal's father in law shot himself in the head right before J'Oneal walked into the house. Jamal Tinsely was just recovering from losing his mother and injury and then when J'Oneal lost his father in law it sort of backtracked Tinsley's proggession from dealing with the loss of his mother. Ron Artest got suspended or injured one or the other, Reggie Miller got injured, And Austin Croshere lost one of his family members adding to the problems.

There was A LOT going on at the time of the slide and them losing in the first rd of the playoffs the yr they should have fought for the ECC. The locker room was said to be a big mess with players finding it hard to keep focus on basketball with all the deaths. They even had to hire a counseler.

The first 2 yrs I don't think they had home court advantage for the playoffs. And those type of things are expected with developing teams. How many times did the lakers get swept out of the playoffs before they won it all when Kobe was developing?? Isiah didn't have a chance to get another shot because of Birds beef with him. And Carisle reaped the benifets the next season of a motivated hungry young team that was side tracked the season before because of family deaths and injuries.

We have no Idea what Curry can become yet.
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newyorknewyork
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2/9/2007  7:57 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

2001 (41-41) - 8th seed, lost to 1st seed philly 3-1
2002 (42-40) - 8th seed, lost to 1st seed nj 3-2
2003 (48-34) - 3rd seed, lost to 6th seed bos 4-2


Philly went to the finals
Nets went to the finals
Bos they should have won and probably would have if they weren't so fragile because of all the deaths they were induring to there family members & injuries
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NYKresurrection
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2/9/2007  8:03 PM
Isn't the Islanders losing AGAIN tonight ??
GOD arose JESUS from the grave !!! Isiah arose the Knicks from their grave !!!
djsunyc
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2/9/2007  8:05 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

We have no Idea what Curry can become yet.

offensively, i agree. but he will never be as good a defender as jermaine.
BlueSeats
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2/9/2007  8:11 PM
I think two years of .500 ball and then the wheels coming off the wagon is entirely plausible for us too.
Anji
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2/9/2007  8:13 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

They were 35-15 and then fell off down the stretch because J'Oneal's father in law shot himself in the head right before J'Oneal walked into the house. Jamal Tinsely was just recovering from losing his mother and injury and then when J'Oneal lost his father in law it sort of backtracked Tinsley's proggession from dealing with the loss of his mother. Ron Artest got suspended or injured one or the other, Reggie Miller got injured, And Austin Croshere lost one of his family members adding to the problems.

There was A LOT going on at the time of the slide and them losing in the first rd of the playoffs the yr they should have fought for the ECC. The locker room was said to be a big mess with players finding it hard to keep focus on basketball with all the deaths. They even had to hire a counseler.

The first 2 yrs I don't think they had home court advantage for the playoffs. And those type of things are expected with developing teams. How many times did the lakers get swept out of the playoffs before they won it all when Kobe was developing?? Isiah didn't have a chance to get another shot because of Birds beef with him. And Carisle reaped the benifets the next season of a motivated hungry young team that was side tracked the season before because of family deaths and injuries.

We have no Idea what Curry can become yet.
I wanna see want happens when the Bulls get bounced out in the first round again. Because they won't get home court and they stink on the road........... will paxson get fired or considerations???


[Edited by - anji on 02-09-2007 8:14 PM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
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Isiah's record after 50 games in his 1st year at Indiana? 22-28
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