Can it be done?

I don't mean your typical RealGM "trade for Ray Allen" or "tank and get Greg Oden" idea.

I'm talking based on actual, you know, FACTS.

I love how alot of fans casually dismiss the ****block that is James Dolan.


Actually the only reason I started this thread to be honest, was b/c (random story) I was reading a thread about Len Bias on RGM and what "could've been", watched some of his old highlights. And it got me thinking about "potential", and Red Auerbach, and drugs, and somehow I got to thinking about the pile of crap future that is the Knicks.

I don't know how I got there but I did.


Anyway, what can be done realistically?

Anything -- or does this train wreck have to fulfill its course and crash into a wall before we can ever TRULY rebuild?


Any ideas?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________


Personally, and this is just me (and I'm sure I might change my mind later on), but as a fan I'd like to see some semblance of getting on the right path in the next year or so. I don't mean making the playoffs, I mean getting this mother back on track, doin' her right.

Here's a few issues:


1. The salary situation is out of ****in control.

Does anyone realize we now have no expiring contracts until 2009? (unless of course we trade for 1 but that's highly unlikely given the the crap (err, I mean crop) we have to offer.


2. He didn't let us get under then, why would he now?

Will we ever get under the cap?

Is it even allowed?


3. And finally: To Curry or not to Curry?

Will Dolan even let the next GM (please God let there be a next GM) entertain offers for E-City?

note: This is not a "hate on Curry" thread. I don't hate him, I just feel like the negatives outweight the positives as far as him being HERE.


Here's my angle on that -

I think what to do with Eddy Curry is the most important issue we're facing.

He's showing he can be a 20-25 ppg DOMINANT Center in the near future. He's still obviously young, he's admittedly the skinniest I've personally ever seen him. He's looking more mobile on defense, and teams are fearing him now.

And then there's the bad stuff which I don't even need to repeat b/c we all know it.

I THINK....that what we eventually NEED to do is suck it up and trade him. Probly not this year, maybe not even next year, but soon.

Let his stock hit the ceiling, and then move him when the time is right. He's obviously not a franchise player and never will be. He just doesn't have the instinct or tools to be one.

The problem isn't that though, it's that the things we'll need to surround him with to be successfull will be hard and time-consuming to find:

a.) a Bruising PF (think Oakley/Thorpe/H.Grant)

b.) a consistent force at SG or SF

c.) role players that can defend and shoot


The 1st two are what really bother me. Guys like Matt Carrol, Jared Jefferies, Earl Watson, Kyle Korver.........they're a dime a dozen (OK, not literally, but you get my point)

But it's not as easy to find perfect (or atleast ideal) compliments to him in the front and backcourts.

It's easier said than done.


FYI: Tyson Chandler was not an ideal complement to him. Ask Bulls fans.


I would look to free up some cap space, get a starter or top draft pick, and a suitable role player in a package.


And yes, teams will come knocking. No one knows how valuable Curry could be in the playoffs, but I have a feeling he could be pretty valuable if put on just the right team.

What is the right team?


A team that already has A & B


Teams like LA (Kobe/K.Brown)......ATL (Johnson/S.Williams).......CLE (Lebron/Veraejo)


It's not surprising either. Those were the 3 main suitors (besides us) for Curry back in '05 when he was a FA.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi?archive=62&num=14087

The final big fish for the Lakers would be Eddy Curry who has yet to come to terms with the Chicago Bulls. The Lakers are said to have a solid two-year offer on the table for Curry via sign and trade

http://www.realgm.com/src_twoplusthefoul/63/20050701/make_or_break_off_season_for_cavs/

Bulls center Eddy Curry, a restricted free agent, has also been on James’ wish list, but Curry, especially now that he is expected to be cleared to resume physical activity, is likely staying put in Chicago, as general manager John Paxson has repeatedly stressed his desire to keep Curry and fellow big man Tyson Chandler, another restricted free agent, in the fold.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20050716/ai_n14887109

Curry is the only free agent the Hawks have brought in, reflecting a genuine interest by general manager Billy Knight.

"Billy would not have brought Eddy in if he was not really interested in him," a league source said.

I also think the '08 draft is the one we have to shoot for. Forget last year and the upcoming one. Pawn those off to experience, brush your shoulders off, and try to be optimistic.

I have a feeling alot of the bigmen many expect to declare for this draft might stay in college another year, like Oden.

I'm not suggesting we tank.....hell, I don't even think Dolan would allow that.

But if we're gonna make a move, the 08 draft has to be a big part of the plans IMO.




After that, I think the next step is to prepare for 09 Free Agency.

That's the summer when Marbury, Malik, and Francis expire.

Dolan will never realistically let us drop salary like the Bobcats, but I think a competent GM would let it slide off gradually, in a small move here or there.



Anyway........that's me thinking out loud.


Sorry for such an aggrivatingly long post.


Peace.



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 02-02-2007 02:50 AM]

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 02-02-2007 02:51 AM]

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 02-02-2007 02:52 AM]

I think they need a shot blocker more than the Oakley type. Obviously, if that player could do both, all the better.

I think they have the role players, but they need a shooter and a young playmaking true PG to back up Marbury (or move him to the 2).

They also need to acquire a wing foward.

Just don't complicate the cap situation unless they are offered a superstar who is under 28, which is highly doubtful.

[Edited by - Rich on 02-02-2007 03:03 AM]

^^ yeah but all the guys you mentioned are much better rebounders and defenders. plus curry doesnt techincally average 20. I wouldnt mind him getting traded as long as its part of a plan.

In all honesty this regime needs to be put out of it's misery, Isiah has done little positive and disgraced the franchise in his tenure.

I bring in Jerry West and meet any demands he has, we need someone with a good eye for talent and a guy that isn't going to get ripped off. He has made his mistakes but none so large that the franchise will not recover. Warrick is better than Frye, Lowry is better than Nate, Alexander Johnson is better than Collins. He drafts better than Isiah period.

My first move, is getting rid of Crawford for anything, I don't think we should have a 8-9 million dollar player that doesn't contribute on the defensive end, is high turnover prone, and has the worst shot selection in the nba as part of our future.....if he has trouble adjusting as a bench player as opposed to a starter its too bad, your a player you can adjust, your not a starter. You take too many threes and don't attack the basket enough....

I would look to move him for an expiring deal or a shorter contract.

My second move is to shop Channing Frye and Eddy Curry get a gauge on their value and see if it makes sense to deal one of them. Thats the only way we are going to yield an effective wing player.

You have no hope to get rid of Marbury, Francis, James, Jefferies, and Rose. Which is disgraceful no team has more players no one wants so you need to sit tight with them, and then try to move a player in the last year of his deal if it makes sense.

As for the short term, Crawford is to erractic and to poor on defense to start. Start this unit

Curry
Lee
Balkman
Q
Marbury

You have two defenders starting and if Q is healthy he can spread the floor. I would probably not start curry if it was up to me and put Frye out there, but thats not going to happen. So Frye and Crawford should work together on the pick and role with the second unit, and jefferies can provide a little defense and not try to do too much. We still have an improved bench with a scoring bunch.

With the first unit I put an empashis on running, and back cuts for lee/balkman to finish around the basket, more ball movement less eddy just pounding inside.

Memo to Isiah, you don't need to bring a player off the bench if he can't guard the player your putting him in for. Frye should not be guarding 3's Lee should not be guarding 3's. Channing will excel as a five and his defense will not hurt as much.

This is all you can hope for as a unit, we don't have assets to use right now, so developing roles is important, however i don't think isiah has the intelligence or the sense to admit that his coaching is influence by his poor moves, and that is a major reason we need to end his tenure as soon as possible.

Fire Isiah, Hire a competent GM and start from there.

This mess is much bigger than the one Isiah inherited with no expiring contracts, few #1 picks and being much further over the cap but it can be done.

Great post Bobs.

I'm always thinking about how to fix this thing. It was hard before and now Isiah has really made this thing into a train wreak. But, seriously, I've said it before in other posts and I'll continue to say it as long as you guys keep putting up "fix the Knicks" threads - this is what you do right now:

Curry's not going anywhere. He is what he is bro. He's no defense and a poor rebounder but he has made himself into a reliable, consistant scorer. He's staying on the floor and not committing the stupid, lazy offensive fouls as before. So some progress is being made I guess. Bottom line is he's not going anywhere. I fear every other team looks at him as a big man with severe deficiencies and a heart problem. We would never get back equal compensation for him. If he continues to make progress and they decide right now to build around him this is my immediate plan:

1) Look into getting Mickael Pietrus from Golden State for a David Lee package. Lee's the man but I think he can be replaced. I really believe Pietrus can be a consistant 20 pt/game scorer, eventually even that 2nd star we've been searching for provided you believe Eddy's a star or will be soon, if ever given 35-40 mins and at least 15 shots per game. If we ever got this guy and he got the greenlight to do what he wanted like Crawford has, he'd be an all-star. Not question in my mind. A deal that makes A TON of sense for both teams especially, for us, if we can replace Lee - and I think we can (see #s 2 & 3 below).

2) Look into getting Hilton Armstrong from New Orleans for a Frye/Nate &/or Balkman package. I go after this hard RIGHT AFTER I land Pietrus for Lee (I don't want the Hornets holding out on us for Lee - can't do that if Lee was already traded for Pietrus). They might go for it. Armstrong isn't getting any PT for the Hornets as their coach might be committed to a big 3 rotation of Chandler, West and Simmons. They might like Frye and his jumpshot off the bench or at the 5. Admittedly, he is probably a little futher along at this stage than Armstrong. And they might like Nate as a backup to Chris Paul. And they might like Balkman and his energy. I bring in Armstrong and bring him along slowly. I tell him to hit the weight room and put on some muscle. Bottom line is right now he's a defensive big man who's a great shotblocker and an effective rebounder. He would eventually be a great rebounding/defensive force to play next to Curry - something Frye will never be able to provide. And he's young. He also has shown me that he can be an effective offensive player soon - he has all the tools (actually has a nice jumpshot, he's quick in close scoring the ball, etc.). All he needs to do is take that jumper out of the closet and dust it off and start using it and work on developing a few pet moves inside. With Aguirre, that would be no problem. This kid's a winner and will be a much better overall NBA big man than Frye will ever be. No doubt in my mind. Plus he'll replace part of what Lee brought to the table.

3) Sign Louis Amundson from the D-league. I've talked about this for weeks now. He's about the closest thing to David Lee as you're gonna find out there. Similiar is age, size and game. He goes about 6'9" 230lb. A combo. 3/4. He plays with a hunger & is aggressive as all get out, he can score inside a little, he's a strong rebounder and he might even have slightly better footspeed and overall quickness than Lee. I could see him being a slightly better defender than Lee and he can actually block some shots (averaging about 2 blocks/game for Colorado in only 23 mins. per.). His type of hustle and energy will make people forget Lee and Balkman in a hurry.

4) Finally, I sign Chris Rodgers out of the D-league. Also been talking about this kid for awhile now. He's a combo. guard that goes about 6'4" so he's got some size. He's a great defender. Pure and simple. Outstanding defensive player. Plus he can run an offense, make a 10-15 footer and he makes his FTs. When thinking about what our overall team deficiences are this kid fits in very nicely.

That's it. That's my immediate plan to fix this thing on the fly. You make smart moves to acquire young, inexpensive (at this point anyway - Pietrus and Armstrong will need to get paid nice money down the road), impact players in trades or through D-league signings. All 4 of these moves are 100% doable. Nothing fancy. No big splashes. Just sensible moves to fill weaknesses. No doubt in my mind - we'd be a much better team with these moves.

Posted by Finestrg:

Great post Bobs.

Thanks. Atleast someone appreciates it.

Curry's not going anywhere. He is what he is bro. He's no defense and a poor rebounder but he has made himself into a reliable, consistant scorer. He's staying on the floor and not committing the stupid, lazy offensive fouls as before. So some progress is being made I guess. Bottom line is he's not going anywhere. I fear every other team looks at him as a big man with severe deficiencies and a heart problem. We would never get back equal compensation for him.

My honest take on Curry is that he will become a polished offensive dominant Center with a nice repetoire of post moves who will play around 35 minutes a game, give you 20+ points, 7-8 rebounds, MAYBE 1 block, and that's about it.

His rebounding and defense in general will never really improve; that's the reality. I mean some fans have really been duped, and I kinda feel for 'em you know. Isiah you gotta admit is one hell of a salesman. Talk about some serious PR power.

I disagree with you though, I thik Curry could be pretty valuable on just the right team. A team that understands his flaws and is in the position to cover for them, all the while NEEDING his post offense to open up the floor in the halfcourt.

Like I said that team would need to have A, and B. -- a consistent backcourt force, and a rugged paint enforcer.

For all of you that keep talking about having a shotblocker.....yes, that's necessary, but really only off the bench (like Mutombo in Houston, or Zo in Miami).

If he continues to make progress and they decide right now to build around him this is my immediate plan:

Ok, so your plan is to go ahead with Curry.

See not I only am I disagreeing here, but I'm confused. Didn't you JUST say that he can't really become a franchise player?

Or are you caving to the fact that James "cockblock" Dolan will never let Curry go?

1) Look into getting Mickael Pietrus from Golden State for a David Lee package. Lee's the man but I think he can be replaced. I really believe Pietrus can be a consistant 20 pt/game scorer, eventually even that 2nd star we've been searching for provided you believe Eddy's a star or will be soon, if ever given 35-40 mins and at least 15 shots per game. If we ever got this guy and he got the greenlight to do what he wanted like Crawford has, he'd be an all-star. Not question in my mind. A deal that makes A TON of sense for both teams especially, for us, if we can replace Lee - and I think we can (see #s 2 & 3 below).

Do you see Pietrus as a Joe Johnson type?

2) Look into getting Hilton Armstrong from New Orleans for a Frye/Nate &/or Balkman package. I go after this hard RIGHT AFTER I land Pietrus for Lee (I don't want the Hornets holding out on us for Lee - can't do that if Lee was already traded for Pietrus). They might go for it. Armstrong isn't getting any PT for the Hornets as their coach might be committed to a big 3 rotation of Chandler, West and Simmons. They might like Frye and his jumpshot off the bench or at the 5. Admittedly, he is probably a little futher along at this stage than Armstrong. And they might like Nate as a backup to Chris Paul. And they might like Balkman and his energy. I bring in Armstrong and bring him along slowly. I tell him to hit the weight room and put on some muscle. Bottom line is right now he's a defensive big man who's a great shotblocker and an effective rebounder. He would eventually be a great rebounding/defensive force to play next to Curry - something Frye will never be able to provide. And he's young. He also has shown me that he can be an effective offensive player soon - he has all the tools (actually has a nice jumpshot, he's quick in close scoring the ball, etc.). All he needs to do is take that jumper out of the closet and dust it off and start using it and work on developing a few pet moves inside. With Aguirre, that would be no problem. This kid's a winner and will be a much better overall NBA big man than Frye will ever be. No doubt in my mind. Plus he'll replace part of what Lee brought to the table.

Interesting...

(although remember we need more than just a weakside-shotblocker next to Curry)

Chandler and Curry sucked together. Ask Bulls fans.

3) Sign Louis Amundson from the D-league. I've talked about this for weeks now. He's about the closest thing to David Lee as you're gonna find out there. Similiar is age, size and game. He goes about 6'9" 230lb. A combo. 3/4. He plays with a hunger & is aggressive as all get out, he can score inside a little, he's a strong rebounder and he might even have slightly better footspeed and overall quickness than Lee. I could see him being a slightly better defender than Lee and he can actually block some shots (averaging about 2 blocks/game for Colorado in only 23 mins. per.). His type of hustle and energy will make people forget Lee and Balkman in a hurry.

That's some nice scouting there...

That's it. That's my immediate plan to fix this thing on the fly. You make smart moves to acquire young, inexpensive (at this point anyway - Pietrus and Armstrong will need to get paid nice money down the road), impact players in trades or through D-league signings. All 4 of these moves are 100% doable. Nothing fancy. No big splashes. Just sensible moves to fill weaknesses. No doubt in my mind - we'd be a much better team with these moves.

See this is what I don't get.

No splashy moves?

Consistent backcourt forces are very hard to find in this league.

And you WILL need one to compensate for all those "precious" double teams we get on Curry. Imagine if we had Kobe in there.

Not only would we have a leader and a true 2-way franchise player, but someone that could REALLY take pressure off Curry and capitalize from him just being on the floor.

That's a VERY splashy move.

And getting a PJ Brown in his prime is what we need. Or a Haslem. Or a Rasheed. Or the Davis Bros.

Not a Hilton Armstrong or Tyson Chandler.

We need a smart defensive force in the paint, not a guy that's just coming off the weakside to block shots.

Some of you don't get that Curry is pretty inept on defense.......and probably always will be.



Anyway great post man. Thanx.



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 02-02-2007 2:30 PM]

What I would do, if you wanna keep Curry, is the following:


Go after Jason Richardson.

The Warriors are said they will shop him next summer.

Offer Lee and Quentin. Something like that.



K, so now you have:

Marbury
Richardson
Jefferies/Balkman
_________
Curry


There's your consistent backcourt force.

Now all you need is your PJ Brown/Antonio Davis/Udonis Haslem.

That's gonna be pretty hard to get.

I like the idea of trading for Armstrong to be our future "off the bench shotblocker".

Maybe dangle Nate and Balkman?


Anyway, back on track, I honestly can't think of a single guy available right now that matches our needs.

Maybe a guy like Alexander Johnson?

I just don't know.

We might have to go through the draft in '07 or '08.

^ I don't think you can build around Frye........really at all.

He's a nice starter on some teams, great role player on others.

He's basically a fringe starter at this point.


Curry right now is our most important asset. Do we keep him, do we trade him, and how long do we wait?


You can do it both ways. Trade Curry, go with the uptempo team, get a high pick in 08, rely on cap space in 09.

Then there's the "trade for a reliable force in the backcourt" scenario, which is even harder, although may pay more dividends in the long run.


I'm all for keeping Curry (and I do think he will continue to improve on offense), if it means we can get the pieces we need in a somewhat short span of time -- like say 2 years. Because once Curry hits his prime, and that's around 26 for most Centers, we need to be ready to compete...

There are 8 guys in the league averaging a double-double. If you think there is a guy in the D-league that can replace Lee and he isnt in the league then every team in the league has problems with finding players. I think you can replace Lee but not with a rookie or D- league player

^ So did Layden.


Kiki is a clear upgrade. I think we can all see that.