Just wanted to compare Lee's minutes this yr with some of the other big men picked before Lee during the 05 draft.

Bogut 33 mins
Marvin W. 32 mins
Lee 30 mins
Frye 26 mins
Villanueva 25 mins
Warrick 25 mins
Sean May 23 mins
Webster 21 mins
Bynum 21 mins
Diougu 13 mins

One other factor that needs to be pointed out is that Lee and Frye play on the same team and play the same position and still both manage to get more than 25 mins per. Ontop of that, Lee as a nonstarter, is averaging 1 less minute than 6th man of the yr leader Ben Gordon (31 mins) and about the same as Barbosa (30 mins)

If Lee is to get the 35-38 mins per as you guys suggest, there wouldn't be many more minutes left for Frye who despite his struggles hasn't been that bad where he should be reduced to 20 mins per. Frye was the runner-up for rookie of the yr last yr. Its not so much that Frye has regressed, he just hasn't progressed.

On another note, Drew Gooden a starter for the Cavs is only averaging 27 mins per and Nocioni is averaging 28 mins. I think Lee comming off the bench is a bit overrated.

this is a good point. the problem is really Jefferies getting any minutes with Balkman and Lee being such better options.

also, we often give up big runs to start the first and third quarters, it seems (I have no way to check that) and that's usually when Jefferies is in and Lee is out. oh well. at least Isiah's actions speak louder than his words and Lee plays more than any big man on the team other than Curry.

Posted by crzymdups:

this is a good point. the problem is really Jefferies getting any minutes with Balkman and Lee being such better options.

also, we often give up big runs to start the first and third quarters, it seems (I have no way to check that) and that's usually when Jefferies is in and Lee is out. oh well. at least Isiah's actions speak louder than his words and Lee plays more than any big man on the team other than Curry.

Thats my point, regardless of whether he starts or not, he's still getting more minutes than Frye (and all of the big men drafted before him except for 2) and he's in there when the game is on the line at the end. Lee is the type of energy player that will play the same way regardless of starting or comming off the bench. I'm not against Lee starting but I think most are making into a bigger deal than it should be.

I'm fine with Lee's minutes. I'd rather see him play a few more, but it's no big deal.

or Isiah could just play the guys playing the best. Managing around contracts and draft position = losing. Managing by playing the guys that give you the best chance to win everynight = not what Isiah does

Lee's playing about 28 mpg as a reserve. He should be getting about ten more. I agree with the article posted a few days ago that by not giving Lee and Balkman the full number of minutes they've earned, Isiah's digging his own grave.

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by fishmike:

or Isiah could just play the guys playing the best. Managing around contracts and draft position = losing. Managing by playing the guys that give you the best chance to win everynight = not what Isiah does

With the mandate that Dolan laid on Isiah, he'd be a fool not to play the guys who thought would give him the best chance to win. As I said, his best guys are usually in at the end. I'm not under the impression that the Knicks win against the Suns, at Miami, the Wiz, Nets etc, if Lee starts.

exactly... see Bonn's comments. Lee is still getting 25-30 minutes a night. Start him he get 35-38. He's your best forward. He's your most consistant player. He produces EVERY night. He doesnt take nights off. How people fail to see this will help the team is totally beyond me.

Oh... and Lee's earned it. Not by his contract, draft position or other politics. Just from good play

imagine that

Okay, lets say Lee gets 38 mins per. How many minutes does Frye, Curry, Balk and Jeffries get?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cutting into the minutes of guys who aren't playing well. In fact, Isiah has done exactly what you suggest when a player is playing poorly. The 3 games before the Miami game, Frye played 20 mins, 10 mins and 14 mins because of poor play. And we've seen Jeefries get the quick hook and get burried when he isn't playing well either.

Over the last 4 games, Lee is averaging 37 mins a game! I'm certain thats just as much if not more than Gordon or Barbosa over the same stretch who are the 2 leading candidates for 6th man of the yr.

The thing that bothers me most about this Lee debate, is that the Lee advocates make it seem like Lee is being benched and is being treated unfailry which is absolutely not the case. Lee is there when the game is on the line which should be indication that Isiah trusts Lee and has tremendous confidence in him if he's willing to put him in the game during crunch time. Isiah obviously has a different philosophy than some. He likes Lees energy off the bench. He feels that Lee can give the same production whether starting or off the bench.

Posted by bigbeast:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cutting into the minutes of guys who aren't playing well. In fact, Isiah has done exactly what you suggest when a player is playing poorly. The 3 games before the Miami game, Frye played 20 mins, 10 mins and 14 mins because of poor play. And we've seen Jeefries get the quick hook and get burried when he isn't playing well either.

Over the last 4 games, Lee is averaging 37 mins a game! I'm certain thats just as much if not more than Gordon or Barbosa over the same stretch who are the 2 leading candidates for 6th man of the yr.

The thing that bothers me most about this Lee debate, is that the Lee advocates make it seem like Lee is being benched and is being treated unfailry which is absolutely not the case. Lee is there when the game is on the line which should be indication that Isiah trusts Lee and has tremendous confidence in him if he's willing to put him in the game during crunch time. Isiah obviously has a different philosophy than some. He likes Lees energy off the bench. He feels that Lee can give the same production whether starting or off the bench.

it is unfair... same thing tonight. Yes he got more minutes than those other guys, but he should be starting, and he should be playing against the other teams starters. We hit a couple shots early but as usual with our starters we are down in the first qtr.

Play Frye against the other team's bench. Thats where he deserves to be right now. Start Lee against the other team's starters. Thats what Lee has earned right now.

People act like the first qtr doesnt impact the game. Why doesnt it?

Posted by fishmike:

Less! Thats exactly the point. Who cares how many minutes goes to Jefferies when he's playing like CRAP.

If is play improves and he actually starts to contribute than fine. Same with Frye. He's been shooting the ball well of late but his defense and rebounding is still sub par to put it nicely.

What is wrong with guys earning minutes? Every start Isiah gives Frye or JJ over Lee he is rewarding their poor play, which is what it is.

Whats wrong with benching a guy or cutting minutes when he's not playing effective BB?

LOL

I was going to say how do the small forwards and centers on the team effect Frye??? HE will get 14 minutes backing up Lee and what ever minutes fall from Curry. Might be 14, might be four because we need Cato or Balkman.

Posted by Erniecat:

Lee: 19 pts., 14 rebs, 3 assists.

Knicks: Outscored 50-42 in 1st and 3rd quarters; outscore Bucks 63-57 in 2nd and 4th quarters.

People who feel Lee doesn't need to start: In denial.

yea
http://www.82games.com/0607/0607NYK.HTM

Its almost funny. The Knicks play the best when Lee is on the court and the worst when he's off the court. This even includes the guys that get spot duty.

Play him 40+ till he pukes. He's earned it and the right to start against the other team's best players.