I know we could probably do this all day but sometimes I wonder where the Knicks would be now if they had done somethings differently.

I'll admit off the bat I have absolutely no clue the complete intricacies of the trade and deals that have been made during Scott Layden and Isiah's reign. And forgive me it doesn't quite make sense or you find it completely pointless .
But a girl can dream right?
Lets say in 2002 draft we never trade away Nene or Camby. We kept Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, we never sign Houston to that huge contract and instead use that money to land two good free agents down the road. Mainly point guard and shooting guards and finally we never trade for Marbury. Maybe instead we get someone with a lesser profile like Jason Terry.
So you have the lineup of

Wishful thinking Jason Terry/Rip Hamilton
Tim Thomas
Kurt Thomas
Marcus Camby
Nene off the bench.
Of course fill in the blank with the rest of the positions.

When Isiah takes over instead of breaking the bank he looks for guards who are talented but maybe not as high profile. I know now it would seem crazy that either of these players were available but at one time they were and they were basically had for almost nothing in comparsion. I'm really just thinking of where these players were in 2002 and if they were available. I know this is really.

But this is just my opinion and please forgive me if you find this topic completely pointles

Posted by bitty41:

I know we could probably do this all day but sometimes I wonder where the Knicks would be now if they had done somethings differently.

I'll admit off the bat I have absolutely no clue the complete intricacies of the trade and deals that have been made during Scott Layden and Isiah's reign. And forgive me it doesn't quite make sense or you find it completely pointless .
But a girl can dream right?
Lets say in 2002 draft we never trade away Nene or Camby. We kept Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, we never sign Houston to that huge contract and instead use that money to land two good free agents down the road. Mainly point guard and shooting guards and finally we never trade for Marbury. Maybe instead we get someone with a lesser profile like Jason Terry.
So you have the lineup of

Wishful thinking Jason Terry/Rip Hamilton
Tim Thomas
Kurt Thomas
Marcus Camby
Nene off the bench.
Of course fill in the blank with the rest of the positions.

When Isiah takes over instead of breaking the bank he looks for guards who are talented but maybe not as high profile. I know now it would seem crazy that either of these players were available but at one time they were and they were basically had for almost nothing in comparsion. I'm really just thinking of where these players were in 2002 and if they were available. I know this is really.

But this is just my opinion and please forgive me if you find this topic completely pointles

If you take away just the Mcdyess trade, I think we make the playoffs every year since then.

If McDyess never reinjured himself, and Sprewell was responsible, we also would have been a contender for a couple of seasons with that trade, especially THAT season. Houston and McDyess and Sprewell would have been a sick 3 man wrecking crew.

However, you are right Bitty. If we used a little more careful thinking and thought, we could have had Camby and Stoudemire. However, I can also understand the impatience developing with Camby and his injuries. It's a virtue though, and we would have been paid the benefits in the longrun.

Bitty41, shall we see you at the next get together? Not that I even know if I'll be able to go.

he also gave up erick strickland and TWO #1 picks for othella harrington.

I never had a problem with the Dice trade. It was worth a shot. He was a star. IF he was healthy that could have been a great deal. I think the major flaw during that period was that even though Dice had a second major surgery(or was it a third after he went down in pre-season), we continued to build like he was going to come back 100%. We continued to try to convince the fans that when he came back everything would be fine. We continued to build around the hope of a guy that just had two surgeries. So we were on the path to ruin and then continued to follow it.

In my view as soon as Dice went down with the second injury we should have realized that our window of opportunity with this bunch had closed and that it was time to go young.

TMS: Couldn't the same have been said about Curry. Curry came with a heart risk, but so far it's worked out. I think as many fans wanted to vomit over that trade as you did Dice. I don't have a problem when a GM makes a play for a star. I personally would not have done the Dice trade. But my personal philosophy doesn't make it wrong. Layden Spree and HOuston. With an inside precense he's in the thick of things in the East. Without one, he's fired in a year or two. He took a chance and failed.

I remember discussing this on MSG ad nauseum. My opinion doesn't change. I would not have made the move but I udnerstood why it was done by Layden. In a different market it's not done. In NY any GM would have made tht play. My problem was after the 2nd injury when we continued to build around him. That was my main issue.

exactly... at least the Curry trade was made w/a purpose of getting ourselves a dominant young C to grow w/the team & maybe become our franchise player, something our franchise desperately needed... whether you liked it or not, it had a meaning & a purpose.

what was the purpose of making the Dice trade? like Solace said, we did not need another PF, yet Layden went ahead & trades away our starting C & a good lottery pick to get one, & not just any PF, but a guy who had a bum knee who was nothing like he used to be at his peak... if he wanted a young PF to grow w/the team, why not simply use the pick & take a Wilcox or Stoudamire instead? that would have been the better move to make over the longterm, but Layden somehow thought getting a gimpy Dice would lead this team to a championship? that's something that i can't even fathom to this day... what would have possessed the man to make a deal like that i never know, other than Dolan forcing him to do it, but i don't think Dolan knows enough about players or the NBA to even get involved in these trades... he just signs the paychecks & trusts the people he put in charge to know what they're talking about.

then to even further exasperate matters, he goes & picks Mike Sweetney w/the #9 pick a year later when the last thing we needed was yet another PF... this is what drove me crazy w/Layden & the moves he made... Isiah's made alot of bang my head against the wall moves in his own right, but the mere thought of Layden makes me physically ill.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-26-2007 12:30 PM]

I disagree about redundancy. Dice was nothing like those other PF's. He was a potential star that at his best would have opened the door for us to clean out our PF glut. It's like if we went out and got Chris Paul today I don't think he would be redundant because he is a different player than the guards we have.

I understand you didn't liek the trade. That's fine. Again I wouldn't have made the trade. But how is taking the chance on a 20 and 10 guy with a knee problem to pair up with Spree and Allan any more risky than taking a chance on a current 15 and 5 player with a possible heart condition. They are both risks, it's just that one worked out.

I think the Dice and Curry trades were bad for different reasons. With the Dice trade, we KNEW what we were giving up. Camby (a former #2 pick who was playing well) and a #7 pick (Nene, Amare, etc...) with potential to be as good or better than Dice. With Camby we were a below .500 team. At best, with a healthy Dice and KT at center, we win 45 games. We gambled our future for a chance to go two rounds of playoffs. Center is *the* most difficult position in the NBA to acquire a good player. Giving up Camby was assinine for this reason and Denver has reaped the benefits or our ineptitude. It's not that trading for Dice was such a bad thing, in fact, having him *next* to Camby or Nene or Amare would've been great. Having him *instead* of those guys just wasn't enough.

The Curry trade was bad, but because we overpaid so much for someone who had underachieved, had a heart condition and gave up a lot of talent, including a #2 pick and this year's draft pick. Isiah's fault wasn't trading for Curry, it was just that he didn't make any effort to protect the picks. And if the picks *have* to be unprotected, then I pass on Curry. That's all.

exactly... at least the Curry trade was made w/a purpose of getting ourselves a dominant young C to grow w/the team & maybe become our franchise player, something our franchise desperately needed... whether you liked it or not, it had a meaning & a purpose.

If that were the goal then drafting Bynum 3 months earlier would have solved it.

Posted by islesfan:

exactly... at least the Curry trade was made w/a purpose of getting ourselves a dominant young C to grow w/the team & maybe become our franchise player, something our franchise desperately needed... whether you liked it or not, it had a meaning & a purpose.

If that were the goal then drafting Bynum 3 months earlier would have solved it.

u'll get no arguments out of me about Isiah drafting Frye over a higher upside player... i wanted Gerald Greene but that's just me... it looked like he made a good choice last season when Channing was playing great, but he's regressed for whatever reason & i'm beginning to think it might have been better to go w/a player like Greene or Bynum instead for the longterm upside potential.