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Forget the record and the playoffs here are the key questions to ask:
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Bippity10
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1/25/2007  1:35 PM
1.) What player/players are we building around?
2.) What acquisitions have we made in the last 12+ months that support this?
3.) Have we made any acquisitions in the past 12+ months that don't fit into the LONG-TERM SUCCESS of this core?
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djsunyc
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1/25/2007  1:48 PM
1. main player to build around: curry. (i'm not saying I would build around curry but that's what we're doing.)
2. yes - lee.
3. yes - we have made MANY acquisitions that don't fit into the long-term success of this core (eddy and lee).
nyk4ever
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1/25/2007  1:53 PM
1. Building around Eddy(mistake because he is a one-trick pony)
2. Lee, but it wasn't known he was going to be this kind of player. This team still needs a top wing to stretch the floor for Eddy.
3. Yes we've made a ton. Every player on this team doesn't fit into long-term success, except for Lee, Q, and maybe Balkman.

Disclaimer: This does not mean I do NOT like Eddy Curry. I like Eddy and I love the offense that he brings but there is more to basketball then just scoring points. We need to build AROUND players who not only can score points but can also stop people from scoring points as well as rebound, block shots, etc etc.
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TMS
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1/25/2007  2:06 PM
1 - Curry & Marbury (from the looks of the moves Isiah's been making)

2 - Frye pick (makes sense but he's regressed from his rookie season), D Lee pick (offshoot of the Malik trade), Balkman pick, Jamal trade, Q Rich trade, Cato signing

3 - Turd signing, Jefferies signing (we already had drafted Balkman), Francis trade (we already have Marbs & Jamal), Nate pick (we already had Jamal), Collins pick (we already had Jamal)
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Solace
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1/25/2007  2:10 PM
1 - Curry, Marbury
2 - Lee, Cato, Balkman, QRich, Collins
3 - Malik, Francis, Nate, Crawford, JJ, JJ2, JJ3, Frye

We need to stop paying big money to role players. If we're buiilding around Curry + Marbury (~$30 MM), we need to get the supporting cast that can make those guys win. However, it's flawed from the start, since neither Curry nor Marbury is a top 40 NBA player, and it's hard to be too successful like that.
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misterearl
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1/25/2007  2:56 PM
bippity - outstanding question

1) Not certain the Knicks are building around one or two star players as much as they are installing a philosophy to build primarily through the draft... and play as a team with a cohesive skill-set.

That includes building around yoots with who can play multiple positions. For example:

The Drafting of Balkman - a quick forward I'd like to see work on his outside shot and cameo at off guard

The Drafting of Frye - a college center being auditioned at forward

The Drafting of Lee - a college center being shifted to forward who I'd like to see receive a cameo at center

The Drafting of Nate - a sparkplug of a guard who may see more minutes down the stretch

Jamal - the elder statesman, a better lead guard than shooting guard who considers Eddy his friend

Eddy - the manchild in the promised land who is discovering how to use his 24 year old muscles and dance steps

The Drafting of Collins - a freshman who can use the offseason and Summer League to polish some rough edges



That's seven very young guys.

None of the rest will be here in two years



[Edited by - misterearl on 01-25-2007 2:59 PM]
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holfresh
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1/26/2007  12:41 AM
Knicks are building around Curry, Lee, and Frye...The team is young enough that you don't need pieces added in the last 12 months to justify progress...Giving these young players as much time on the floor as possible to help them grow is just what the doctor ordered...

This team need to build confidence and find their collective niches...DLEE is there already, Curry is finding his and is stumbling on more new things that we can see from time to time..Frye is lost trying to find his way...But playing time is all they need at the moment..We haven't won anything in some peoples lifetime...What's a couple more years to see if this can work??

kam77
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1/26/2007  10:26 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

1. Building around Eddy(mistake because he is a one-trick pony)
2. Lee, but it wasn't known he was going to be this kind of player. This team still needs a top wing to stretch the floor for Eddy.
3. Yes we've made a ton. Every player on this team doesn't fit into long-term success, except for Lee, Q, and maybe Balkman.

Disclaimer: This does not mean I do NOT like Eddy Curry. I like Eddy and I love the offense that he brings but there is more to basketball then just scoring points. We need to build AROUND players who not only can score points but can also stop people from scoring points as well as rebound, block shots, etc etc.


It's clear you are not watching the rest of the NBA. Or you think some magical unicorn exists somewhere in the forest. The guys you want to build around don't exist... lets see a Center who can score points (presumably in the post to command doubles and open up shots for every teammate ont he floor) oh AND he has to STOP people from scoring (this is when i suspected you were on crack) as well as rebound block shots, etc etc.

Okaaaay how many Centers in the last 5 years fit that description?

Name me a dominant offensive player tobuild arounf (WHO IS AVAILABLE dont say Tim Duncan) who does all those other things too?
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Bippity10
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1/26/2007  11:29 AM
Posted by holfresh:

Knicks are building around Curry, Lee, and Frye...The team is young enough that you don't need pieces added in the last 12 months to justify progress...Giving these young players as much time on the floor as possible to help them grow is just what the doctor ordered...

This team need to build confidence and find their collective niches...DLEE is there already, Curry is finding his and is stumbling on more new things that we can see from time to time..Frye is lost trying to find his way...But playing time is all they need at the moment..We haven't won anything in some peoples lifetime...What's a couple more years to see if this can work??


holfresh: This wasn't a question about progress. If you read the question it actually said forget about the record.

The question was concerning who are we building around and do our moves back this up. I think there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the fence. I'll use the Balkman/JJ2 signings as an example. In my point of view once you have someone to build around you go out and find veteran talent that can mentor that player(say sign a JJ2 to teach that player how to hustle and work etc). Then sign young talent that can grow with Curry. To me that means grabbing another potential star that will reach his prime along with Curry. This is what I would have done but does not make it right. Isiah thought grabbing hustle guys was the first thing we needed to do, possibly to build a new philosophy here. One that he chose not to address with his other moves. So he went and got hustle players with both picks. I wouldn't have done this but I can't kill him for this. these moves very well could have been made with Curry's long term growth in mind.

But some of the other moves to me are clearly being made to make sure we can compete for a playoff spot, sometimes at the expense of our young guys. Obvious examples to me are Mo Taylor, Jalen, Stevie. To me these moves are a waste of time and resources. YOu are better off signing someone from the D league over someone that does not fit in with your long-term plans and has never been known as a mentor.

Kelvin Cato is a move that I think makes sense in the long-term planning because he is a good mentor. See the difference????

To me the next moves are crucial. They can make or break our future. They can determine whether we've learned our lesson and are building. Or are just here to make a playoff run while Marbs is relatively healthy. Jumpshooters to spread the floor. A PG that can get the ball to our center. Interior and perimeter defenders.

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Bippity10
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1/26/2007  11:36 AM
Posted by misterearl:

bippity - outstanding question

1) Not certain the Knicks are building around one or two star players as much as they are installing a philosophy to build primarily through the draft... and play as a team with a cohesive skill-set.

That includes building around yoots with who can play multiple positions. For example:

The Drafting of Balkman - a quick forward I'd like to see work on his outside shot and cameo at off guard

The Drafting of Frye - a college center being auditioned at forward

The Drafting of Lee - a college center being shifted to forward who I'd like to see receive a cameo at center

The Drafting of Nate - a sparkplug of a guard who may see more minutes down the stretch

Jamal - the elder statesman, a better lead guard than shooting guard who considers Eddy his friend

Eddy - the manchild in the promised land who is discovering how to use his 24 year old muscles and dance steps

The Drafting of Collins - a freshman who can use the offseason and Summer League to polish some rough edges



That's seven very young guys.

None of the rest will be here in two years



[Edited by - misterearl on 01-25-2007 2:59 PM]


MisterEarl: We have definitely gotten younger and added good talent. This is not disputable. But I don't think getting younger is a philosophy. It's a method to me. A philosphy for me is more in the line of the style of play and the exact type of player you are targeting. You can go young and still have run and gun players mixed in with half-court players etc.

I think part of Zeke's problem is that he has never really established a style or philosophy. To me he has a bunch mixed in together. We have guys that are better in a free style offense. And guys that work better in the half-court. We have youth, but trade away draft picks. We have one or two defenders trying to make up for 8 or 9 guys indifferent about defending. We have all out hustler's mixed in with guys that are borderline lazy. I just have a hard time looking at this team and figuring out what our exact philosophy is. Who are we targeting? And when I ask the only thing I get back is "we are younger"


[Edited by - Bippity10 on 01-26-2007 11:38 AM]
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arkrud
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1/26/2007  12:30 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by misterearl:

bippity - outstanding question

1) Not certain the Knicks are building around one or two star players as much as they are installing a philosophy to build primarily through the draft... and play as a team with a cohesive skill-set.

That includes building around yoots with who can play multiple positions. For example:

The Drafting of Balkman - a quick forward I'd like to see work on his outside shot and cameo at off guard

The Drafting of Frye - a college center being auditioned at forward

The Drafting of Lee - a college center being shifted to forward who I'd like to see receive a cameo at center

The Drafting of Nate - a sparkplug of a guard who may see more minutes down the stretch

Jamal - the elder statesman, a better lead guard than shooting guard who considers Eddy his friend

Eddy - the manchild in the promised land who is discovering how to use his 24 year old muscles and dance steps

The Drafting of Collins - a freshman who can use the offseason and Summer League to polish some rough edges



That's seven very young guys.

None of the rest will be here in two years



[Edited by - misterearl on 01-25-2007 2:59 PM]


MisterEarl: We have definitely gotten younger and added good talent. This is not disputable. But I don't think getting younger is a philosophy. It's a method to me. A philosphy for me is more in the line of the style of play and the exact type of player you are targeting. You can go young and still have run and gun players mixed in with half-court players etc.

I think part of Zeke's problem is that he has never really established a style or philosophy. To me he has a bunch mixed in together. We have guys that are better in a free style offense. And guys that work better in the half-court. We have youth, but trade away draft picks. We have one or two defenders trying to make up for 8 or 9 guys indifferent about defending. We have all out hustler's mixed in with guys that are borderline lazy. I just have a hard time looking at this team and figuring out what our exact philosophy is. Who are we targeting? And when I ask the only thing I get back is "we are younger"


[Edited by - Bippity10 on 01-26-2007 11:38 AM]


I think the philosophy is clear. Dolan is not interesting in making the History but in making the Show.
And the show must go on...
Do you think he will get more green on the boring Spurs-like winners. Comeon - this is MSG. We need some drama!!!



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
kam77
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1/26/2007  12:53 PM
My opinion is Dolan doesn't care about Championships. As long as the Knicks are getting playoff revenue he'll be happy.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Forget the record and the playoffs here are the key questions to ask:

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