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Erniecat
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1/24/2007  9:28 AM
This is directed specifically to those on this board who do not see a big problem with Lee not starting (I know you're out there):

Can you please explain why a bad team that tends to get off to slow starts would want its best rebounder and best forward to be on the bench when the game starts?

This is a very specific question, so please don't just say that "as long as Lee gets his minutes and plays the fourth quarter it does not matter." I want to know why it is not a big deal that Lee is not in the game at the start. Or, if you wish, why we are actually better off not having Lee in the game at the start.
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martin
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1/24/2007  9:33 AM
If Lee starts for Frye, defense can collapse on Curry. No outside shooting, especially with the combo of Lee/JJ.

Also, JJ kinda has to start cause of his contract and Isiah's pumping of the signing and excuses early in the season.

Start Frye and Lee against a team that has a 3 that can sit on the 3point line and drain shots and the Knicks are screwed.
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Allanfan20
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1/24/2007  9:44 AM
Posted by martin:

If Lee starts for Frye, defense can collapse on Curry. No outside shooting, especially with the combo of Lee/JJ.

Also, JJ kinda has to start cause of his contract and Isiah's pumping of the signing and excuses early in the season.

Start Frye and Lee against a team that has a 3 that can sit on the 3point line and drain shots and the Knicks are screwed.

This all falls on Curry. His lack of D is a big reason (Along with the flaws of the rest of the SL) we get off to slow starts in the first place. To me, if he can't improve his defense, I don't think the Knicks can build around a guy like this.

BTW, Lee needs to start and I really don't see how it matters if Frye or Lee is in the SL, considering that Curry is horrible at passing out of the double teams along with how Frye has been inconsistent anyway.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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1/24/2007  9:48 AM
Posted by martin:

If Lee starts for Frye, defense can collapse on Curry. No outside shooting, especially with the combo of Lee/JJ.

the answer to that is to start Lee at the 4, Q at the 3 & Jamal at the 2... that way you still have your perimeter scorers to keep defenses from collapsing on Curry everytime down the floor... Jefferies' defense has not been stellar at all & that was really the only reason why you would start him in the first place... w/o that, he's pretty much a liability out there... much rather have Lee & Jamal getting into the flow early than having Jefferies & Frye out there to start games.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Elite
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1/24/2007  9:53 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by martin:

If Lee starts for Frye, defense can collapse on Curry. No outside shooting, especially with the combo of Lee/JJ.

the answer to that is to start Lee at the 4, Q at the 3 & Jamal at the 2... that way you still have your perimeter scorers to keep defenses from collapsing on Curry everytime down the floor... Jefferies' defense has not been stellar at all & that was really the only reason why you would start him in the first place... w/o that, he's pretty much a liability out there... much rather have Lee & Jamal getting into the flow early than having Jefferies & Frye out there to start games.

thank you, I been saying this for like a month now
MS
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1/24/2007  10:00 AM
Ok Frye can't score anymore if he is not wide open if someone is going to get physical with him and actually guard him outside he is going to serve no purpose, he is slow footed and will kill us on defense......

The outside shooting argument doesn't hold weight when you shooting 43%
Erniecat
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1/24/2007  10:01 AM
Posted by martin:

If Lee starts for Frye, defense can collapse on Curry. No outside shooting, especially with the combo of Lee/JJ.

Also, JJ kinda has to start cause of his contract and Isiah's pumping of the signing and excuses early in the season.

Start Frye and Lee against a team that has a 3 that can sit on the 3point line and drain shots and the Knicks are screwed.

I realize there are negatives, but what about the pros of Lee starting outweighing the cons? I mean, JJ is completely and utterly useless. At best, he is a role player off the bench who deserves 15 minutes a night, tops.

Bottom line: When things are looking bad for us, or it's simply down to the fourth quarter, JJ and Frye sit and Lee plays. Doesn't that mean JJ and Frye are useless and Lee is valuable? Why are the problems you raise only issues in the first quarter?

Also, can I assume that the problems you raise will be addressed in the offseason and Lee will be a starter by next fall?
Erniecat
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1/24/2007  10:04 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by martin:

If Lee starts for Frye, defense can collapse on Curry. No outside shooting, especially with the combo of Lee/JJ.

the answer to that is to start Lee at the 4, Q at the 3 & Jamal at the 2... that way you still have your perimeter scorers to keep defenses from collapsing on Curry everytime down the floor... Jefferies' defense has not been stellar at all & that was really the only reason why you would start him in the first place... w/o that, he's pretty much a liability out there... much rather have Lee & Jamal getting into the flow early than having Jefferies & Frye out there to start games.

Yeah, but that starting lineup makes far too much sense for Isiah.
TMS
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1/24/2007  10:09 AM
if u want defense & better matchups against the athletic Suns team, this might be a good starting 5 to go with tonight:

Curry
D Lee
Balkman
Q
Jamal

this way you have 2 rebounders & guys who can run the floor in Lee & Balk on the wings... you have 2 perimeter shooters in Q & Jamal, & you have an inside presence in Curry... decently balanced for what we have to work with
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Erniecat
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1/24/2007  10:10 AM
Posted by TMS:

if u want defense & better matchups against the athletic Suns team, this might be a good starting 5 to go with tonight:

Curry
D Lee
Balkman
Q
Jamal

this way you have 2 rebounders & guys who can run the floor in Lee & Balk on the wings... you have 2 perimeter shooters in Q & Jamal, & you have an inside presence in Curry... decently balanced for what we have to work with


Bring it on!!!!!!
Solace
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1/24/2007  10:11 AM
Posted by TMS:

if u want defense & better matchups against the athletic Suns team, this might be a good starting 5 to go with tonight:

Curry
D Lee
Balkman
Q
Jamal

this way you have 2 rebounders & guys who can run the floor in Lee & Balk on the wings... you have 2 perimeter shooters in Q & Jamal, & you have an inside presence in Curry... decently balanced for what we have to work with

Any thought to giving Cato some minutes or playing Lee/Curry/Frye, JJ2 and Balkman together against the Suns team? This is one of the few teams that we might be able to get away with playing JJ2 at PF.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Allanfan20
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1/24/2007  10:15 AM
Posted by TMS:

if u want defense & better matchups against the athletic Suns team, this might be a good starting 5 to go with tonight:

Curry
D Lee
Balkman
Q
Jamal

this way you have 2 rebounders & guys who can run the floor in Lee & Balk on the wings... you have 2 perimeter shooters in Q & Jamal, & you have an inside presence in Curry... decently balanced for what we have to work with

If you think we're gonna win by attempting to play defense, you're wrong. We have absolutely no combination that can go with the Suns. If you're an inferior team, in order to beat the Suns, you have to out score them, just like we did last year, and hopefully, they'll just be tired quickly.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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1/24/2007  10:15 AM
i would love to see Cato getting minutes, but he's wearing a suit on the bench & Turd's big feet are taking up too much space at the end of the bench for him to get any playing time.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Allanfan20
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1/24/2007  10:16 AM
I like Cato, but against the Suns, he's just too slow. I think we will just need as much offense as possible, and hopefully Crawford becomes unstoppable.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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1/24/2007  10:16 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by TMS:

if u want defense & better matchups against the athletic Suns team, this might be a good starting 5 to go with tonight:

Curry
D Lee
Balkman
Q
Jamal

this way you have 2 rebounders & guys who can run the floor in Lee & Balk on the wings... you have 2 perimeter shooters in Q & Jamal, & you have an inside presence in Curry... decently balanced for what we have to work with

If you think we're gonna win by attempting to play defense, you're wrong. We have absolutely no combination that can go with the Suns. If you're an inferior team, in order to beat the Suns, you have to out score them, just like we did last year, and hopefully, they'll just be tired quickly.

trying to outscore a team like the Suns is playing directly into their hands... in order to beat them, you need to slow down the pace of the game, get them out of the flow of their game, play good transition defense, & just bother them all around the court w/physical D... you can't try & trade baskets w/a team like that cuz they'll run you right out of the building
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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1/24/2007  10:20 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by TMS:

if u want defense & better matchups against the athletic Suns team, this might be a good starting 5 to go with tonight:

Curry
D Lee
Balkman
Q
Jamal

this way you have 2 rebounders & guys who can run the floor in Lee & Balk on the wings... you have 2 perimeter shooters in Q & Jamal, & you have an inside presence in Curry... decently balanced for what we have to work with

If you think we're gonna win by attempting to play defense, you're wrong. We have absolutely no combination that can go with the Suns. If you're an inferior team, in order to beat the Suns, you have to out score them, just like we did last year, and hopefully, they'll just be tired quickly.

trying to outscore a team like the Suns is playing directly into their hands... in order to beat them, you need to slow down the pace of the game, get them out of the flow of their game, play good transition defense, & just bother them all around the court w/physical D... you can't try & trade baskets w/a team like that cuz they'll run you right out of the building

I 100% agree. You cannot beat the Suns at their own game. The only way to beat the Suns is to slow down the running game, meaning controlling the pace of the game, and our guards have to get back on defense on EVERY play, otherwise, TMS is 100% right, we'll get run out of the building.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Allanfan20
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1/24/2007  10:20 AM
Yes, but we don't have a good defensive squard, unless you wanna put Balkman, Mardy, Lee, Q and Cato in, and I don't think you wanna ride with that. We don't have defensive players on the team, and nobody is smart enough to guard Nash, on the team. Therefore, you just have to hopefully outscore them. That's exactly what we did last year at the garden, but that's when we had Marbury and that was when he was at his best. He might not even be able to play.

Therefore, the chances of us NOT getting blown out are slim. I agree with you TMS, you can't run with the Suns. You have to try and slow them down, but we just don't have the personel. We might as well give it a shot.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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1/24/2007  10:24 AM
the chances we'll stop the Suns is slim already... but you have to go w/trying to take them out of their game to have any shot at all of beating them.

i think you can rotate Jamal, Q & sometimes Balk on checking Nash... D Lee can check Marion or Diaw at times, w/Jefferies coming off the bench to check those guys too... then you have Curry checking KT when he's in the game... Amare will be a nightmare for anyone to guard, so all u can do is stick a body on him & hope for the best.
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fishmike
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1/24/2007  10:32 AM
let them collapse! Lee has a good jumper which he doesnt use, because he's almost always around the paint.

Also Lee is a great passer, our best frontcourt passer by far. If he's the guy the ball gets kicked out to he will make a good play
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izybx
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1/24/2007  10:38 AM
lee has no jumpshot. but ill start him if q starts the three.
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