[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

It doesn't matter if Lee starts?
Author Thread
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
1/7/2007  2:54 PM
I here the argument all the time that it doesn't matter if he starts so long as he's playing starter's minutes. Well, as a bench player he's averaging only 27, which is definitely not enough for our best player to get. Some other interesting notes:
In team wins, Lee gets plays 33.3 mpg. In losses, 28.0.
When Lee gets 30+ min, the team is 9-7. When he gets less than 30 mpg, the team is 6-14.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3956
AUTOADVERT
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
1/7/2007  2:55 PM
I think Isiah's plan is to trade Lee without the back-lashing from the fans & media since its the only way we cna bring in a franchise calibur player





[Edited by - gunsnewing on 01-07-2007 3:07 PM]
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
1/7/2007  3:00 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I think Isiah's plan is to trade Lee without the backfiring from the fans & media since its the only way we cna bring in a franchise calibur player

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 01-07-2007 2:56 PM]
You may be right but I think he'll already get that backfiring unless it really is for a franchise player (in which case I think the fans would accept it whether or not Lee was starting). I think he's simply under pressure to show that his MLE signing is a starting calibre player.

holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

1/7/2007  3:03 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I here the argument all the time that it doesn't matter if he starts so long as he's playing starter's minutes. Well, as a bench player he's averaging only 27, which is definitely not enough for our best player to get. Some other interesting notes:
In team wins, Lee gets plays 33.3 mpg. In losses, 28.0.
When Lee gets 30+ min, the team is 9-7. When he gets less than 30 mpg, the team is 6-14.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3956

Curry and Marbs are our best players...

gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
1/7/2007  3:03 PM
how can people be comfortable with someone like that? Unless Lee starts and Frye is traded for a need I will never be able to be completely excited about this team
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
1/7/2007  3:04 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I here the argument all the time that it doesn't matter if he starts so long as he's playing starter's minutes. Well, as a bench player he's averaging only 27, which is definitely not enough for our best player to get. Some other interesting notes:
In team wins, Lee gets plays 33.3 mpg. In losses, 28.0.
When Lee gets 30+ min, the team is 9-7. When he gets less than 30 mpg, the team is 6-14.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3956

Curry and Marbs are our best players...

Maybe in theory they are, but they don't impact the game consistently like Lee does. Unlike Curry and Marbs, the team actually plays better when Lee is on than off the floor and plays better when he gets 30 min than when he doesn't.
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
1/7/2007  3:05 PM
What are the chances Isiah is not looking to trade Lee at all? I would put it at about 95%.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Marv
Posts: 35564
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
1/7/2007  3:10 PM
Posted by oohah:

What are the chances Isiah is not looking to trade Lee at all? I would put it at about 95%.

oohah

i agree. even isiah has to realize that the only trades he should even consider are marbury, francis, james and richardson for shorter contracts.
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
1/7/2007  3:13 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by oohah:

What are the chances Isiah is not looking to trade Lee at all? I would put it at about 95%.

oohah

i agree. even isiah has to realize that the only trades he should even consider are marbury, francis, james and richardson for shorter contracts.

Yes Marv, I think the exception may be something like when Shaq asked out of Laker-land. If Tim Duncan said he wanted out, I would part with Lee or Frye or Curry, maybe even 2 of them. With our luck it would end up Duncan has a bad back and is finished!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

1/7/2007  3:15 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I here the argument all the time that it doesn't matter if he starts so long as he's playing starter's minutes. Well, as a bench player he's averaging only 27, which is definitely not enough for our best player to get. Some other interesting notes:
In team wins, Lee gets plays 33.3 mpg. In losses, 28.0.
When Lee gets 30+ min, the team is 9-7. When he gets less than 30 mpg, the team is 6-14.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3956

Curry and Marbs are our best players...

Maybe in theory they are, but they don't impact the game consistently like Lee does. Unlike Curry and Marbs, the team actually plays better when Lee is on than off the floor and plays better when he gets 30 min than when he doesn't.

Just looking at the last two games, Lee didn't have particularly good games nor did he get alot of minutes in the Seattle game in the first half...Knicks were still dominant...Also, You are kdding yourslef if you think the recent success is not about Curry and Marbs...Lee has been playing well and consistent...But if Curry and Marbs don't play their best, this team has no chance...

Marv
Posts: 35564
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
1/7/2007  3:19 PM
Posted by oohah:

Yes Marv, I think the exception may be something like when Shaq asked out of Laker-land. If Tim Duncan said he wanted out, I would part with Lee or Frye or Curry, maybe even 2 of them. With our luck it would end up Duncan has a bad back and is finished!

oohah

we'd put him in a pair of starburys in his first game and he'd never walk again!
Allanfan20
Posts: 36008
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
1/7/2007  3:21 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I here the argument all the time that it doesn't matter if he starts so long as he's playing starter's minutes. Well, as a bench player he's averaging only 27, which is definitely not enough for our best player to get. Some other interesting notes:
In team wins, Lee gets plays 33.3 mpg. In losses, 28.0.
When Lee gets 30+ min, the team is 9-7. When he gets less than 30 mpg, the team is 6-14.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3956

Curry and Marbs are our best players...

Maybe in theory they are, but they don't impact the game consistently like Lee does. Unlike Curry and Marbs, the team actually plays better when Lee is on than off the floor and plays better when he gets 30 min than when he doesn't.

Just looking at the last two games, Lee didn't have particularly good games nor did he get alot of minutes in the Seattle game in the first half...Knicks were still dominant...Also, You are kdding yourslef if you think the recent success is not about Curry and Marbs...Lee has been playing well and consistent...But if Curry and Marbs don't play their best, this team has no chance...


You pretty much explained why the Knicks have sucked the past couple of seasons.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

1/7/2007  3:46 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I here the argument all the time that it doesn't matter if he starts so long as he's playing starter's minutes. Well, as a bench player he's averaging only 27, which is definitely not enough for our best player to get. Some other interesting notes:
In team wins, Lee gets plays 33.3 mpg. In losses, 28.0.
When Lee gets 30+ min, the team is 9-7. When he gets less than 30 mpg, the team is 6-14.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3956

Curry and Marbs are our best players...

Maybe in theory they are, but they don't impact the game consistently like Lee does. Unlike Curry and Marbs, the team actually plays better when Lee is on than off the floor and plays better when he gets 30 min than when he doesn't.


From Earl's article from the NYTimes:


The most striking difference from last season, however — and the one that should make the greatest difference in the final months — is the emergence of center Eddy Curry as the focal point of the offense.

In his last three games, Curry has scored 73 points on 27-of-35 shooting. His .771 shooting percentage is the N.B.A.’s highest over a three-game span, among players with at least 35 attempts, since San Antonio’s David Robinson shot .800 (32 of 40) in January 1998.

The Knicks are 10-8 when Curry scores at least 20 points and have won the last six games when he has hit that mark. They are 6-2 when Curry scores 25 or more points. There is no longer any ambiguity in the game plan each night. Opponents are now forced to double-team Curry in the post, creating opportunities for everyone else. After initially struggling to adapt, Curry learned to make quicker passes and quicker moves. And he will be the greatest beneficiary when Richardson, the Knicks’ best 3-point shooter, returns Wednesday.

“It’s a different game when teams have to double-team him,” Jamal Crawford said of Curry. “He gets the credit for changing the game for us.”
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
1/7/2007  4:07 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I here the argument all the time that it doesn't matter if he starts so long as he's playing starter's minutes. Well, as a bench player he's averaging only 27, which is definitely not enough for our best player to get. Some other interesting notes:
In team wins, Lee gets plays 33.3 mpg. In losses, 28.0.
When Lee gets 30+ min, the team is 9-7. When he gets less than 30 mpg, the team is 6-14.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3956

Curry and Marbs are our best players...

Maybe in theory they are, but they don't impact the game consistently like Lee does. Unlike Curry and Marbs, the team actually plays better when Lee is on than off the floor and plays better when he gets 30 min than when he doesn't.


From Earl's article from the NYTimes:


The most striking difference from last season, however — and the one that should make the greatest difference in the final months — is the emergence of center Eddy Curry as the focal point of the offense.

In his last three games, Curry has scored 73 points on 27-of-35 shooting. His .771 shooting percentage is the N.B.A.’s highest over a three-game span, among players with at least 35 attempts, since San Antonio’s David Robinson shot .800 (32 of 40) in January 1998.

The Knicks are 10-8 when Curry scores at least 20 points and have won the last six games when he has hit that mark. They are 6-2 when Curry scores 25 or more points. There is no longer any ambiguity in the game plan each night. Opponents are now forced to double-team Curry in the post, creating opportunities for everyone else. After initially struggling to adapt, Curry learned to make quicker passes and quicker moves. And he will be the greatest beneficiary when Richardson, the Knicks’ best 3-point shooter, returns Wednesday.

“It’s a different game when teams have to double-team him,” Jamal Crawford said of Curry. “He gets the credit for changing the game for us.”

Not that any of this is relevant to the thread, but the confound in your 10-8 stat is that it's easy for any player to score points against bad teams. What are the records of the teams in those 18 games? Why does the team play so much better and with so much more energy when Eddy is on the bench?


[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 01-07-2007 4:08 PM]
bigbeast
Posts: 22333
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/21/2005
Member: #1060

1/7/2007  4:14 PM
Holfresh, youbeat me to it. Its ironic that Bonn of all people is using stats to back up his Lee theory. Yet, Bonn, you're the main one saying that Curry's offensive output is null and void because he does nothing on the defensive end.

Bonn, spin explain this.... They are 6-2 when Curry scores 25 or more points

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-07-2007 4:15 PM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-07-2007 4:15 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
fishmike
Posts: 53903
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/7/2007  4:20 PM
think about what the dumbest thing you can do to this team would be, that would help create the most losses and thats probably what Isiah is planning.

We will probably trade a young promising player for a washed up one with a bad contract

We will probably see our hardest playing most productive players get fewer minutes
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
Posts: 53903
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/7/2007  4:23 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

Holfresh, youbeat me to it. Its ironic that Bonn of all people is using stats to back up his Lee theory. Yet, Bonn, you're the main one saying that Curry's offensive output is null and void because he does nothing on the defensive end.

Bonn, spin explain this.... They are 6-2 when Curry scores 25 or more points

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-07-2007 4:15 PM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-07-2007 4:15 PM]
I say if he wasnt fat and gave a better effort every night he would score 25 more often.

explain why after 30 whatever games we are - with Curry on the floor.

explain why after 30 whatever games we are +13 with Lee on the court. I can see why Isiah would want to limit his minutes

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
bigbeast
Posts: 22333
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/21/2005
Member: #1060

1/7/2007  4:24 PM
Posted by fishmike:

think about what the dumbest thing you can do to this team would be, that would help create the most losses and thats probably what Isiah is planning.

We will probably trade a young promising player for a washed up one with a bad contract

We will probably see our hardest playing most productive players get fewer minutes

I know your not the biggest Zeke fan, But I have to believe even you can't really believe he will go down the same road again in terms of aquiring bad contracts.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Allanfan20
Posts: 36008
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
1/7/2007  4:24 PM
Here you go Bonn. I'm not sure how confusing it will read b/c I don't know how this will turn out after I post it, but the last stat says how many points he scored in that game.

Based on those stats, he's scoring well against good teams and good frontcourts. We HAVE TO give Curry that kind of credit. That's where his improvement is coming. Another thing he needs to work on is his passing, but I also think that his assists are up slightly from last year, and based on my own 2 eyes, from watching the games, he's showing some improvement passing out of the doubles. So lets give Curry some credit there.

However, some other striking things are his rebounding and shotblocking numbers. There were 3 five game periods (At least 5 games I should say) where he went without a single blocked shot. His low rebounding number are pretty strikingly poor too. He should be AT LEAST as good as David Lee, just from boxing out. However, he's not, so I think it's purely an effort issue with Curry and he hasn't been giving it on defense and the boards.

Regular Season FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
Date Opponent Score GS Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts

Jan 5 @ SEA W 111-93 1 30:36 9 9 100.0 0 0 0.0 9 12 75.0 3 3 6 2 3 0 1 1 27
Jan 3 @ POR W 99-81 1 39:16 11 17 64.7 0 0 0.0 5 8 62.5 2 8 10 0 2 1 2 1 27
Jan 2 @ SAC L 100-112 1 36:53 7 9 77.8 0 0 0.0 5 10 50.0 3 3 6 0 5 0 2 3 19
Date Opponent Score GS Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
Dec 31 @ LAC L 80-90 1 32:30 5 13 38.5 0 0 0.0 5 7 71.4 2 3 5 1 0 0 0 1 15
Dec 29 @ PHO L 86-108 1 35:20 7 11 63.6 0 0 0.0 5 8 62.5 3 7 10 0 3 1 2 2 19
Dec 27 DET W 151-145 1 53:50 11 15 73.3 0 0 0.0 11 15 73.3 4 3 7 1 4 0 1 0 33
Dec 23 @ PHI L 77-98 1 30:04 3 9 33.3 0 0 0.0 2 5 40.0 1 6 7 1 2 1 0 2 8
Dec 22 CHI W 103-92 1 35:50 9 17 52.9 0 0 0.0 2 5 40.0 4 2 6 0 3 0 0 5 20
Dec 20 CHA W 111-109 1 46:52 11 15 73.3 0 0 0.0 7 12 58.3 6 3 9 1 3 0 0 5 29
Dec 18 UTH W 97-96 1 22:06 4 8 50.0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0.0 1 2 3 0 4 1 0 5 8
Dec 16 DEN L 100-123 1 26:41 6 10 60.0 0 0 0.0 7 11 63.6 1 2 3 0 4 0 0 3 19
Dec 15 @ IND L 96-112 1 27:05 3 6 50.0 0 0 0.0 4 5 80.0 1 2 3 1 5 1 0 3 10
Dec 13 ATL W 94-82 1 34:06 7 13 53.9 0 0 0.0 6 10 60.0 2 7 9 1 2 0 1 2 20
Dec 11 BOS L 90-97 1 43:59 11 22 50.0 0 0 0.0 8 15 53.3 6 6 12 2 3 0 2 4 30
Dec 9 MIL W 115-107 1 40:02 17 24 70.8 0 0 0.0 2 3 66.7 4 5 9 1 6 2 3 4 36
Dec 6 WAS L 102-113 1 35:19 9 17 52.9 0 0 0.0 4 8 50.0 7 4 11 2 5 2 2 3 22
Dec 4 MEM W 98-90 1 41:56 9 13 69.2 0 0 0.0 8 13 61.5 3 12 15 2 4 0 0 6 26
Dec 2 TOR L 100-103 1 41:07 10 18 55.6 0 0 0.0 7 11 63.6 6 6 12 1 3 2 1 4 27
Dec 1 @ DET L 100-108 1 31:16 9 15 60.0 0 0 0.0 6 12 50.0 3 2 5 0 3 0 1 3 24
Date Opponent Score GS Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts
Nov 29 @ CLE W 101-98 1 37:11 7 12 58.3 0 0 0.0 10 15 66.7 0 5 5 1 4 1 0 4 24
Nov 28 @ CHI L 85-102 1 39:34 10 15 66.7 0 0 0.0 4 8 50.0 1 7 8 0 4 0 0 1 24
Nov 25 CHI L 95-106 1 38:52 8 16 50.0 0 0 0.0 4 12 33.3 2 4 6 1 3 0 1 5 20
Nov 24 @ BOS W 101-77 1 30:25 8 12 66.7 0 0 0.0 5 11 45.5 3 7 10 1 3 0 0 5 21
Nov 22 @ MIN L 89-107 1 30:18 6 11 54.6 0 0 0.0 2 2 100.0 1 6 7 0 2 0 0 4 14
Nov 20 HOU L 90-97 1 21:05 3 10 30.0 0 0 0.0 2 4 50.0 1 1 2 0 4 1 0 4 8
Nov 18 BOS L 118-122 1 21:21 2 9 22.2 0 0 0.0 3 4 75.0 2 5 7 0 1 0 0 1 7
Nov 17 @ MIA W 100-76 1 28:34 6 8 75.0 0 0 0.0 1 1 100.0 1 4 5 0 4 0 0 3 13
Nov 15 WAS W 102-82 1 31:38 4 6 66.7 0 0 0.0 5 10 50.0 0 6 6 2 3 0 1 2 13
Nov 13 CLE L 96-102 1 33:13 5 9 55.6 0 0 0.0 3 4 75.0 3 4 7 1 2 0 0 3 13
Nov 11 @ SAS L 92-100 1 31:17 5 9 55.6 0 0 0.0 5 9 55.6 3 4 7 0 5 1 0 5 15
Nov 10 @ HOU L 94-103 1 22:10 2 11 18.2 0 0 0.0 3 4 75.0 1 4 5 0 1 0 0 4 7
Nov 8 @ DEN W 109-107 1 13:22 1 2 50.0 0 0 0.0 2 4 50.0 1 1 2 1 3 0 0 5 4
Nov 6 SAS L 93-105 1 27:49 4 9 44.4 0 0 0.0 5 8 62.5 2 9 11 0 5 0 0 3 13
Nov 4 IND L 95-109 1 38:42 10 20 50.0 0 0 0.0 2 5 40.0 1 5 6 0 1 0 0 4 22
Nov 3 @ ATL L 92-102 1 39:21 9 13 69.2 0 0 0.0 2 5 40.0 1 1 2 1 3 0 0 5 20
Nov 1 @ MEM W 118-117 1 41:25 8 13 61.5 0 0 0.0 1 2 50.0 3 11 14 1 5 1 3 6 17
Total 36 33:36 256 446 57.4 0 0 0.0 162 278 58.3 88 170 258 25 117 15 23 121 674



[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 01-07-2007 4:27 PM]
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

1/7/2007  4:33 PM

Guys no one is disputing Lee contribution, in fact I welcome it and hope he improves further...But to say that Curry and Marbs is not the reason this engine goes makes me think your are watching something else...Lee plays a very important role, just not the most important...I can also reach for stats that shows Lee man scoring in bunches...All we need to do is look at the Kings games where Artest dropped close to 40..but we all know he shouldn't be guarding him...

It doesn't matter if Lee starts?

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy