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Things Looking Up for Knicks and Coach
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misterearl
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1/7/2007  8:32 AM
At this time last year, the Knicks had already peaked, with a six-game winning streak that got them to 13-21. They promptly collapsed. Stephon Marbury was lost to a shoulder injury, and the Knicks dropped their next six games. They also had losing streaks of 10 games, 6, 9 and 5 over the final three months under Brown.


The Knicks (15-21) have completed the toughest portion of their schedule and have survived their toughest test — playing with a depleted roster for the past four weeks. They remain in contention for the Atlantic Division title and the playoff berth that comes with it.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/sports/basketball/07knicks.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

The Knicks packed a league-high 36 games in the first 66 days of the season. They now downshift, with 46 games spread over the last 102 days. Half of those games will be on the road, but most of them are one-game trips — and two are in New Jersey. The Knicks’ longest remaining trip is three games.

- By HOWARD BECK NY Times Published: January 7, 2007
once a knick always a knick
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misterearl
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1/7/2007  8:59 AM
Some Recent Knicks History

Errata - The Knicks lost to Toronto Jan 15, 123 - 109 the day before Marbury was injured at The Garden. Ticketmaster places me in 404 next to djsu. We watch our beloved squad lose to Minnesota 96-90. Knicks drop next four to fall to 13 -27 on Jan 25.

Knicks win a game v Orlando on Jan 27 (Eddy Curry drops 27), then promptly lose the next 10 to fall to 14-37 on February 13.

Along the way the Knicks lose in Atlanta on Jan 30th 120 -101. David Lee is the leading scorer with 18, including a sweet baseline move in traffic that I get to witness from only four rows back. As a result, his minutes are cut by Larry Brown.


On February 15 the Knicks get their single February victory in Toronto as Eddy Curry goes for 18.

On Friday March 3 the Knicks lose to the Bulls to fall to 15 - 43

15 and 43
once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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1/7/2007  9:17 AM
can't deny the progress the team appears to be making. last two games were impressive and everything seems to be clicking. confidence is sky high and curry is dominant in the post.

the difference in the past 2 games was that isiah brilliantly double teamed zach and ray and forced the other guys on the team to beat us. unfortunately for seattle and portland, there was no "other" guy. and the knicks smelled blood in the water and attacked.

but the 3 games right before, they played 3 teams that were mediocre (sacramento) to decent (clippers) to damn good (suns) but more importantly, 3 teams you can't double anybody up on b/c they have "other" players. and we got blitzed in each game. suns and clippers were over after the 1st quarter. and sacramento was an uphill battle throughout.

but the knicks destroyed seattle and portland, two teams significantly worse than we are. so at the very least, we know we're not a bottom of the barrell team. that is something i think we can all agree to.

but whether we're good, or even mediocre...well we need more games to reach those conclusions.

philly - no special player but we can't double team anybody b/c they have 3 perimeter players that can score (dre, ai2, green) as well as some low post defense in dalembert.

charlotte - we should beat them.

sacramento - another team we can't double team but just had 2 OT losses at home.

i'm expecting 3-0, at worst 2-1. a loss to philly or charlotte should be considered bad. and if they go 1-2, that would be flat out dissapointing.

with this team, it's always about the next game.
misterearl
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1/7/2007  9:26 AM
djsu - you gotta admit the Howard Beck perspective of last season's six game win streak, that "elevated" the Knicks to only 13 - 21, is worth a slight pause for comparison.

But forget the record for a second dj, you watch the games up close... and I use that term loosely... How would you compare the playing personality of this years team to the 2005-06 edition?

once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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1/7/2007  9:35 AM
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - you gotta admit the Howard Beck perspective of last season's six game win streak, that "elevated" the Knicks to only 13 - 21, is worth a slight pause for comparison.

But forget the record for a second dj, you watch the games up close... and I use that term loosely... How would you compare the playing personality of this years team to the 2005-06 edition?

it's night and day. and it's been that way from day one. the players like each other. they like isiah. isiah likes them. it's been a mutual lovefest from day one and it shows on the court and in their interviews.

last year was a clusterf ck from day one. i guess the entire season can be summed up with 2 words "no trust." and when the chips are down, like when marbury got hurt, instead of galvanizing a team, it complete broke it apart.

but with the way this team is acting and behaving, a major injury will probably galvanize them. isiah gets credit for that. isiah had an ultimatum against him and he's fighting it. but outside of that, he didn't have to look over his shoulder and he has marbury standing by his side from day one, vocalizing what isiah wants to everybody on the team instead of fighting him. and that is HUGE. i think you can agree on that.

this team always had talent, it was a matter of meshing, having players sacrafice, playing hard, and committing themselves.

i still feel the team requires some significant changes (i.e. 2, 3, 4 new starters long term) but we'll see how it plays out the rest of the season.
Allanfan20
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1/7/2007  10:05 AM
I'm not the one to celebrate beating up 2 crappy teams and to say the least, I'm not gonna jump for joy if we're mediocre this Summer. It's right back to where we were before last season.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
babyKnicks
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1/7/2007  10:08 AM
knicks playing .500 ball over their last 20 games (pretty good sample size imho)

it's really just about significant progress.

They needed a 6 game win streak to GET to 13 wins, where they simply play .500 ball (.600 since the fight) and appear to be getting better and over the last 20 games have had a fraction of their roster available.

This is the same roster as last year with the exception of the much maligned pick of balkman and recently skewered jeffries.

If everything follows suit, jeffries will suddenly be contributing all over the place as when a player get's a week of bashing on the board he tends to be exactly what we need (see curry, crawford and marbury)

So, let's look forward to a great little grudge match on wednesday as the knicks look to put the Philly Larry brown era in their place.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
misterearl
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1/7/2007  10:56 AM
Allanfan20 - this is not a call for celebration. Just a look at where our beloved franchise was one year ago at this point in the season.

"Jump for joy if we're mediocre this Summer..."?

c'mon allanfan... can you feel any difference from being 15 - 43 on March 3, 2006?

Yo, this is not simply about the won - loss record, but HOW the Knicks are managing to work through problems (suspensions, injuries and "getting to know you") one game at a time. This is about the process of how a team builds trust and relates to one another on the floor.

You don't ever need to reach for the orange and blue pom-poms until the Knicks win a championship... that's your choice. I prefer to enjoy the ride, even with the inevitable controversy, losses, media-spin, anti-NY bias, trade rumors and turnover.

I happen to like the Knicks new yoots.

I'm with babyKnicks in dealing with the present, and the potential for a better future -

- and I have a feeling the same Knicks who Larry dissed, are looking forward to some modest payback Wednesday
once a knick always a knick
babyKnicks
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1/7/2007  11:11 AM
contrary to popular belief, chemistry begets winning, not the other way around. I think that the chemistry that has been built is what seperates this year from last year.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
misterearl
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1/7/2007  12:31 PM
babyknicks, here is your NYK Basic Chemistry Set

Curry and Quentin from Chicago: Jamal and Curry hanging out with Bulls together

Jamal and Nate from Seattle, Jerome via Seattle Sonics

Curry and Lee dating back to high school as all star roommates

Sophomore classmates Lee, Frye (parents Thomas and Karen from Brooklyn) and Nate

Freshman class Balkman and Collins, both with something to prove: Balkman that Greg Anthony was wrong, Collins that he is more than an enforcer and can make a mid-range jumper

Jared and Isiah sharing Bobby Knight

Marbury all alone, but gradually learning to have fun again

once a knick always a knick
TheGame
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1/7/2007  1:36 PM
The record is not much different but the team looks much better. But really, this season is only successful if this team is fighting for the playoffs in April. With the weakness of the Atlantic, there is no reason we should not be in the playoff hunt all the way until the last week of the season. If we miss the playoffs by a game or two, I can probably accept that in what I consider to be the first season for this team. However, anything less is unacceptable IMO. That is the goal that I would set for the team and I would like to see how hard they fight to reach it. IT needs to stop managing expectations and put some challenging goals out there for this team to fight for.
Trust the Process
holfresh
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1/7/2007  2:09 PM
I can's say I'm too happy as a Knick fan about our recent road trip...I thought they could have shown more fight against the better teams on this trip...This team is still hard to figure out...I really can't say they have turned the corner...They have been working on an identity and style of play which is huge compared to where we were last year...I really think for this team to take the next step they need solid and consistent play from Channing Frye...I had high hopes for him and he really hasn't shown up yet this season...That said, I really can't give up on him at this point...He has to get involved and play the inside/outside game with an interior presence that the Knicks sorely need...

I'm not ready to applaud Isiah for a job well done yet, too much time left in the season for that...I certainly support him and hopes he gets there...But I have to ask this..Scott Skiles is so well though of in this league..How is it he can have a player like Curry for years and get nothing out of him and Isiah (Aguirre) has him for a few months and has turned him into a weapon...It's stuff like that why my leash is longer for Isiah than most...But I think the Knicks have an opportunity this month to turn things around..Let's see who steps up when it's time to step up....



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-07-2007 2:11 PM]
nyk4ever
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1/7/2007  2:14 PM
Posted by holfresh:


I can's say I'm too happy as a Knick fan about our recent road trip...O thought they could have shown more fight against the better teams on this trip...This team is still hard to figure out...I really can't say they have turned the corner...They have been working on and identity and style of play which is huge compared to where we were last year...I really thing for this team to take the next step they need solid and consistent play from Channing Frye...I had high hopes for him and he really hasn't shown up yet this season...That said, I really can't give up on him at this point...He has to get involved and play the inside/outside game with an interior presence that the Knicks sorely need...

I'm not ready to applaud Isiah for a job well done yet, too much time left in the season for that...I certainly support him and hopes he gets there...But I have to ask this..Scott Skiles is so well though of in this league..How is it he can have a player like Curry for years and get nothing out of him and Isiah (Aguirre) has him for a few months and has turned him into a weapon...It's stuff like that why my leash is longer for Isiah than most...But I think the Knicks have an opportunity this month to turn things around..Let's see who steps up when it's time to step up....


What the hell is going on here? Holfresh is this seriously you?

Of course I'm joking and I know it is you but this seems like a different Holfresh. A fresher Holfresh

Come on, we need to get back to disagreeing with each other, it doesn't feel right if we're not. haha.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TheGame
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1/7/2007  2:20 PM
Posted by holfresh:

I can's say I'm too happy as a Knick fan about our recent road trip...I thought they could have shown more fight against the better teams on this trip...This team is still hard to figure out...I really can't say they have turned the corner...They have been working on an identity and style of play which is huge compared to where we were last year...I really think for this team to take the next step they need solid and consistent play from Channing Frye...I had high hopes for him and he really hasn't shown up yet this season...That said, I really can't give up on him at this point...He has to get involved and play the inside/outside game with an interior presence that the Knicks sorely need...

I'm not ready to applaud Isiah for a job well done yet, too much time left in the season for that...I certainly support him and hopes he gets there...But I have to ask this..Scott Skiles is so well though of in this league..How is it he can have a player like Curry for years and get nothing out of him and Isiah (Aguirre) has him for a few months and has turned him into a weapon...It's stuff like that why my leash is longer for Isiah than most...But I think the Knicks have an opportunity this month to turn things around..Let's see who steps up when it's time to step up....



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-07-2007 2:11 PM]

That is a great point Holfresh. IT is really underrated in his ability to motivate and get the most out of his players.
Trust the Process
gunsnewing
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1/7/2007  2:27 PM
The coaching staff has done a phenomenal job with Curry but what has happened to Frye, jerome james, jeffries, nate etc
holfresh
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1/7/2007  2:32 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


I can's say I'm too happy as a Knick fan about our recent road trip...O thought they could have shown more fight against the better teams on this trip...This team is still hard to figure out...I really can't say they have turned the corner...They have been working on and identity and style of play which is huge compared to where we were last year...I really thing for this team to take the next step they need solid and consistent play from Channing Frye...I had high hopes for him and he really hasn't shown up yet this season...That said, I really can't give up on him at this point...He has to get involved and play the inside/outside game with an interior presence that the Knicks sorely need...

I'm not ready to applaud Isiah for a job well done yet, too much time left in the season for that...I certainly support him and hopes he gets there...But I have to ask this..Scott Skiles is so well though of in this league..How is it he can have a player like Curry for years and get nothing out of him and Isiah (Aguirre) has him for a few months and has turned him into a weapon...It's stuff like that why my leash is longer for Isiah than most...But I think the Knicks have an opportunity this month to turn things around..Let's see who steps up when it's time to step up....


What the hell is going on here? Holfresh is this seriously you?

Of course I'm joking and I know it is you but this seems like a different Holfresh. A fresher Holfresh

Come on, we need to get back to disagreeing with each other, it doesn't feel right if we're not. haha.

I think we disagree alot because under LB I really didn't think the team had a chance at success..I really couldn't hold the players accountable for that..I think the coach has to create an environment where the team can maximize it's potential...LB had other plans...But I think guys like yourself and Bip always feels the players should play through that, which is cool..Your opinion..But I think Isiah has done a good job of bringing the focus back to basketball so there are no excuses now...Players have to perform...I will defend them and Isiah when I think they aren't getting a fair shot...But I think that stuff is all behind them now, even with the brawl...

I think TheGame said it best when he said it's time for Isiah to stop managing expectations and put some goals in place for players and the team...This team has alot of talent but far from a contender..I'll like to see what kind of makeup we have so make adjustments personnel wise this off season...So I think the time is now for this team to show something...I can't wait...
holfresh
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1/7/2007  2:38 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

The coaching staff has done a phenomenal job with Curry but what has happened to Frye, jerome james, jeffries, nate etc

You need a voodoo doctor for both JJ's...Frye and Nate are still young..Nate has been playing well this year..Under control...But Frye has been disappointing so far...I think he as to adjust to playing with Curry (playing the perimeter) and hitting the boards...But If you are looking for JJ1 nd JJ2 to change their games, it's not happening...Skill wise, they both suck...
misterearl
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1/7/2007  2:38 PM
The Game - the Knicks need to go on a 20 game losing streak to match where they were last season on March 3rd.

gunsnewing - Frye is still searching for a position. Jerome James is injured. Plantar faciitis is no joke. Jeffries is struggling to make a shot and Nate is on punishment.

Then again, David Lee is way ahead of his minutes and production of last season.

Jamal is learning (after a relatively brief hoops career to date) how to hit the open man

Renaldo Balkman has been coached up better than advertised in June





[Edited by - misterearl on 01-07-2007 2:39 PM]
once a knick always a knick
simrud
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1/7/2007  2:48 PM
The issue is whether this team, as currently constructed, is any good. I agree they are playing hard, to the best of their abilities, most of the time anyways.

But even their playing hard is not even close to being to compete with somebody on the level of the Clippers.

I do not think IT is capable of improving the team, because what he has assembled so far is clearly not good enough, and I do not see any harbingers of him improving with his trades, when we have guys like both Jerome James, and JJ2. These are the past 2 MLE guys, clearly squandered opportunity. Even the KT trade, which I said in the past was looking good, is looking bad again because Q is really injury prone.

We need some shooting on the team badly, and this was the same need going into the off season. I already gave up on this group playing any kind of defense if a team has more than one player to guard, so at this point we must as well get some shooters and run and gun and dump it to Curry when we are slowed down.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
djsunyc
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1/7/2007  2:53 PM
Posted by holfresh:

But I have to ask this..Scott Skiles is so well though of in this league..How is it he can have a player like Curry for years and get nothing out of him and Isiah (Aguirre) has him for a few months and has turned him into a weapon...It's stuff like that why my leash is longer for Isiah than most...But I think the Knicks have an opportunity this month to turn things around..Let's see who steps up when it's time to step up....

skiles had curry scoring 16.1 points on 54% shooting at age 21 before he went down with heart ailment in march of that season.

curry is now 2 years older.

so we don't know where curry would be right now if he was still with chicago.
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