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My Opinion On Blocked Shots
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TrueBlue
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12/31/2006  5:49 PM
Camby had 7=win against Knicks

Brand had 8=win against Knicks

J.O. had 4=win against Knicks

Yao Ming, Tracy MacGrady, Shane Battier in 1 game all had 3=win against Knicks

Perkins had 4=win against Knicks

Duncan had 3=win against Knicks

Dalembert had 6=win against Knicks

Okafor had 10=win against the Knicks

I agree with SugarRay and a few others on this board who said blocks are overrated and really don't impact the game as much as the numbers indicate. It's not really needed that much from the center position or any other frontcourt position.

I'm dead serious on this one folks.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-12-2007 9:03 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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djsunyc
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12/31/2006  5:49 PM
they're overrated
TrueBlue
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12/31/2006  5:52 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

they're overrated


I left off a few other games in which either 1 or 2 players had at least 2 blocks in which their team beat the knicks.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
BlueSeats
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12/31/2006  6:00 PM
Reed, Cartwright, Ewing, Camby, Dekembe can take a hike. NY is a guard town.
islesfan
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12/31/2006  6:01 PM
Blocked shots by itself is somewhat overrated. Kind of like outfield assists in baseball.

Having someone who can intimidate and protect the paint, regardless of how many blocks they actually get, is worth plenty. If they can keep the other team out of the paint and change shots, you have someone that changes the game in your favor.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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12/31/2006  6:07 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Blocked shots by itself is somewhat overrated. Kind of like outfield assists in baseball.

Having someone who can intimidate and protect the paint, regardless of how many blocks they actually get, is worth plenty. If they can keep the other team out of the paint and change shots, you have someone that changes the game in your favor.

I disagree because as we saw today blocked shots involve point swings and often lead to transition baskets or easier offensive opportunities. If Brand hadn't blocked as many shots as he did NY probably scores 6-10 more points.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TheGame
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1/1/2007  12:54 PM
Blocked and changed shots are a big factor, especially when you have guards that cannot keep oppsoing guards out of the paint. No one likes to get their shot blocked, so if you have a shotblocker in your frontcourt, opposing guards are going to be more reluctant to drive all the way to the hole or if they do, they will be focusing more on the shotblocker than actually making the shot, which leads to misses. An intimidating shotblocker would help our team defense alot. IMHO that is why our team has played better defense when players like Cato and Balkman enter the game. Those guys intimidate opposing players.

[Edited by - TheGAme on 01-01-2007 12:55 PM]

[Edited by - TheGAme on 01-01-2007 1:30 PM]

[Edited by - TheGAme on 01-01-2007 1:31 PM]
Trust the Process
SugarRayRichardson
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1/1/2007  1:11 PM
The Golden State Warriors lead the nba in blocked shots so they must be a great team right? The Clippers are tied for the lead but their record is not much better than ours. The Bobcats are 6th in the league. Do you get my point? Over the years several great shot blocking teams have had poor records and several bad shot blocking teams have had good records. As Kenny smith said getting a hand in a guys face consistently is more important than actual blocked shots. As far as your examples goes how many counter examples from this season did you ignore? The Spurs are 21st in the NBA in blocked shots but have the best record in the NBA. Does any of this make sense yet?
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
SugarRayRichardson
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1/1/2007  1:18 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Reed, Cartwright, Ewing, Camby, Dekembe can take a hike. NY is a guard town.

Willis Reed was never a dominant shot blocker. He was a great player and deserved praise for battling guys 7 foot tall and he was only around 6-8 or 6-9 but he was never a huge shot blocker. Neither was Bill Cartwright. They both were good for about 1 a game. Mutumbo as a Knick was a good shot blocker but was also a sieve on defense since he couldnt move.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
TheGame
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1/1/2007  1:35 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

The Golden State Warriors lead the nba in blocked shots so they must be a great team right? The Clippers are tied for the lead but their record is not much better than ours. The Bobcats are 6th in the league. Do you get my point? Over the years several great shot blocking teams have had poor records and several bad shot blocking teams have had good records. As Kenny smith said getting a hand in a guys face consistently is more important than actual blocked shots. As far as your examples goes how many counter examples from this season did you ignore? The Spurs are 21st in the NBA in blocked shots but have the best record in the NBA. Does any of this make sense yet?

I am not saying that other factors don't matter or that blocked shots alone will make a team a great defensive team, but if you are going to have guards that cannot keep opposing guards out of the paint, you need a shotblocker to help erase their defensive mistakes. Obviously, playing good individual and team defense is more important than shot-blocking, but I don't think you can ignore the benefits that a shot-blocker would add to this team. That is one reason why IT has started to play more bigs. He is trying to get more shot-blocking and intimidation on the court to help our guards out. I agree that it won't matter much unless players start playing better individual and team defense as a whole, i.e. improving the defensive rotations.

[Edited by - TheGAme on 01-01-2007 1:37 PM]
Trust the Process
SugarRayRichardson
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1/1/2007  1:49 PM
I'd love more shot blocking. My point is that on the Knicks needs list its no way near the top. Look at Philly? Are they one of the best shot blocking teams? Whats their record? Ditto Miami. Ditto Golden State and Charlotte.

Instead of trying to correct the symptom that you just described wouldnt it be smarter to correct the problem (perimeter defense)?
Also a lot of teams are fast breaking us to death now. Thats coming because we cant hitan outside shot that is leading to 10 long rebound a game and because JJ has made our offensive execution horrible.

Now if we can add more shot blocking thats great but that wont change our team. Actually Jerome James is a good shot blocker but like I previously said thats not al it takes.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
BlueSeats
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1/1/2007  2:08 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Reed, Cartwright, Ewing, Camby, Dekembe can take a hike. NY is a guard town.

Willis Reed was never a dominant shot blocker. He was a great player and deserved praise for battling guys 7 foot tall and he was only around 6-8 or 6-9 but he was never a huge shot blocker. Neither was Bill Cartwright. They both were good for about 1 a game. Mutumbo as a Knick was a good shot blocker but was also a sieve on defense since he couldnt move.


I don't care if they used their hands, feet, elbows, hips or butts - they were all able defenders - something we could surely use these days.
Ira
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1/1/2007  2:36 PM
When Ewing was a Knick, you could see other teams drive to the hope much more frequently than when he was resting. It does make a difference because it forces the other team to take lower percentage shots.

Of course it doesn't guarantee a team will be good. There's no one aspect of basketball that does. But it is a significant factor.
Anji
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1/1/2007  3:57 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

The Golden State Warriors lead the nba in blocked shots so they must be a great team right? The Clippers are tied for the lead but their record is not much better than ours. The Bobcats are 6th in the league. Do you get my point? Over the years several great shot blocking teams have had poor records and several bad shot blocking teams have had good records. As Kenny smith said getting a hand in a guys face consistently is more important than actual blocked shots. As far as your examples goes how many counter examples from this season did you ignore? The Spurs are 21st in the NBA in blocked shots but have the best record in the NBA. Does any of this make sense yet?
I'm wondering how many times the leading shot blocker was on the other team and we won. I know we went into MIam and Zo had 4 blocks and we crushed them................. Knicks have zero shotting outside of Crawford(when he is hot), Q(when he is hot), Marbury(when he is hot) and Nate. The knicks get alot of there shots punched. Teams know we can't hurt them from outside unles we are hot. We ether make our bigs try and score on three people packing the paint or drive straght into the D trying to make layups.


[Edited by - anji on 01-01-2007 4:01 PM]
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Bonn1997
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1/1/2007  5:03 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Blocked shots by itself is somewhat overrated. Kind of like outfield assists in baseball.

Having someone who can intimidate and protect the paint, regardless of how many blocks they actually get, is worth plenty. If they can keep the other team out of the paint and change shots, you have someone that changes the game in your favor.
I think the two are pretty highly correlated even though they're not identical
newyorknewyork
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1/1/2007  5:12 PM
Having guys that block shots definatly deos a lot more positive than negative.

We aren't a good outside shooting team. We rely on Curry in the paint and our guards getting into the paint. If teams shut down the lanes and force us to shoot outside jumpers. Then we are going to struggle, unless we are feeling it.

Now if teams are excellent at shooting outside then shot blocking doesn't have that same effect. This team definatly needs shotblocking though. Saying shotblocking is overrated is not something I agree with Thomas about. Its only overreated if you don't play any defense at all and rely only on you shotblockers to carry a defense like ATL did with Ratliff when they had Terry, Big Dog, & Rahim. But if you have shotblockers, some strong rebounders, and active perimeter defenders than your in buisness.
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SugarRayRichardson
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1/1/2007  5:16 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Reed, Cartwright, Ewing, Camby, Dekembe can take a hike. NY is a guard town.

Willis Reed was never a dominant shot blocker. He was a great player and deserved praise for battling guys 7 foot tall and he was only around 6-8 or 6-9 but he was never a huge shot blocker. Neither was Bill Cartwright. They both were good for about 1 a game. Mutumbo as a Knick was a good shot blocker but was also a sieve on defense since he couldnt move.


I don't care if they used their hands, feet, elbows, hips or butts - they were all able defenders - something we could surely use these days.

The thread is about shot blocking though. Willis and Cartwright were never huge shot blockers. Not even close

I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
BlueSeats
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1/1/2007  6:24 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Reed, Cartwright, Ewing, Camby, Dekembe can take a hike. NY is a guard town.

Willis Reed was never a dominant shot blocker. He was a great player and deserved praise for battling guys 7 foot tall and he was only around 6-8 or 6-9 but he was never a huge shot blocker. Neither was Bill Cartwright. They both were good for about 1 a game. Mutumbo as a Knick was a good shot blocker but was also a sieve on defense since he couldnt move.


I don't care if they used their hands, feet, elbows, hips or butts - they were all able defenders - something we could surely use these days.

The thread is about shot blocking though. Willis and Cartwright were never huge shot blockers. Not even close


Fair enough. However, Curry's best year he averaged 1.1 block per game. In Cartwright's best he averaged 1.5 (I admit I was surprised to learn he was as bad as he was.) Reed was not a tall center, and they didn't keep block stats till the last season of his career, where at his end, when he could only play 19 games, he still averaged 1.1, the same as Curry's best.

Unfortunately Eddy may be taking us to new lows...

That said, I agree that shot blocking alone doesn't tell the story, but interior defense is exceedingly important and we get sooo very little of it from our front court.

Our perimeter D stinks too, don't get me wrong, but that's not what this thread is about either.
TrueBlue
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1/1/2007  6:34 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Reed, Cartwright, Ewing, Camby, Dekembe can take a hike. NY is a guard town.

Willis Reed was never a dominant shot blocker. He was a great player and deserved praise for battling guys 7 foot tall and he was only around 6-8 or 6-9 but he was never a huge shot blocker. Neither was Bill Cartwright. They both were good for about 1 a game. Mutumbo as a Knick was a good shot blocker but was also a sieve on defense since he couldnt move.


I don't care if they used their hands, feet, elbows, hips or butts - they were all able defenders - something we could surely use these days.

The thread is about shot blocking though. Willis and Cartwright were never huge shot blockers. Not even close


Fair enough. However, Curry's best year he averaged 1.1 block per game. In Cartwright's best he averaged 1.5 (I admit I was surprised to learn he was as bad as he was.) Reed was not a tall center, and they didn't keep block stats till the last season of his career, where at his end, when he could only play 19 games, he still averaged 1.1, the same as Curry's best.

Unfortunately Eddy may be taking us to new lows...

That said, I agree that shot blocking alone doesn't tell the story, but interior defense is exceedingly important and we get sooo very little of it from our front court.

Our perimeter D stinks too, don't get me wrong, but that's not what this thread is about either.


I sent a messgae to the Mod Blue. For some reason it allows you to change your password and it takes affect immediately but not the username. Anyway back to the topic at hand.

SugarRay you also have to use your cabbage a little better and consider the game has changed from back in the day. You have far more penetrating/slashing type of players who are scorers and not shooters. More scoring is happening around the basket. The very reason you see NBA teams using college schemes(zoning) to stop penetration and daring teams to shoot. More handchecking fouls are called because more players beat defenders off the dribble. Now if zoning starts to become a very successful scheme, which is debateable at this point since scoring is up almost similar to the 80's then maybe shotblocking won't be that important.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-01-2007 6:01 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
BlueSeats
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1/1/2007  6:50 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
I sent a messgae to the Mod Blue. For some reason it allows you to change your password and it takes affect immendiately but not the username. Anyway back to the topic at hand.

Thanks. I don't know the means but I know it's doable. I can think of a few people who've changed their handles without losing their post count, etc.

nyknicks2k2 and our own TKF are the best mods over there, IMO.
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