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Raef LaFrentz
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QnzKnixFan
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1/7/2003  8:28 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/49476p-46451c.html

I would trade Kurt Thomas for Raef LaFrentz. He's younger than Thomas at 26 years old and bigger at 6'11" 240 lbs. He's a great shooter and would complement Antonio McDyess very well.

I could see this trade happening in February.
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Andrew
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1/7/2003  9:37 AM
I'd be all for that team....I think it works well for both Dallas and NY. We get some more size, Dallas gets some much neeeded toughness.
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Dan1078
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1/7/2003  10:31 AM
I think that trading Kurt for Lafrentz is a pretty bad trade.

Dallas, is the number one team in the league as we all know. Why would they want to tinker with their line up? They must really dislike Raef's game.

Also, compare the stats-- KT 14ppg and 8rpg Vs Lafrentz 8 ppg and 4 rpg.

Big deal- Lafrentz is two inches taller and weighs five more pounds. The important thing is that he does not use his size. Kurt does.

The Knicks lack toughness, a post defense and rebounding, so why would you trade a player that embodies all three of those characteristics for a better vrsion of Mike Doleac?

Awful trade.
Knicksfan1971
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1/7/2003  10:52 AM
I agree with Dan,thats a bad trade.Even undersized Kurt is one
of the better Centers in the league,puts up better numbers and
has stayed healthy over last few seasons unlike Lafrenz.Lafrenz is
someone I would trade for Doleac if anyone,not that Im dissatisfied
with what he has done over the last few games.I dont see lafrenz
raising his game up to KT's level any time soon.
OasisBU
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1/7/2003  10:52 AM
I agree, bad trade - very bad trade. Think about it - Layden is taking Dyess and Raef from the Nuggz - he would take Van X too if he could. NY is not Denver, this team lost a lot of games in Denver so why remake them in NY? To top it off, he took Spoon (I think this was where he was playing) and Doleac from the Cavs. So basically we would have Spree, Houston, and Ward then a mixture of Cleveland and Denver running the show - 2 losing teams combined to make another losing effort. Not to mention Shandon and Eisley. Everyone has been playing better with more minutes but nobody on this team is going to solve the problem.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
dmeesq
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1/7/2003  11:10 AM
I would do this trade, and then follow it up with:

NY trades Weatherspoon and Knight to Philly
Philly trades Coleman to NY.

DC is still a big body who is capable of having good games. His contract also expires and NY can resign him next year as their own free agent for relatively cheap in this new marketplace affected by the slaary cap/

Our front line gets bigger and stronger and we'll actually improve our perimeter game with Lafrentz/
falcindor
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1/7/2003  11:13 AM
This simply is not going to happen. Knicks are trying to put Kurt Thomas on the block without officially putting him on the block. Once you put a player on the block you decrease their value because in essence your saying "We dont need him". Layden probably did this to get at another C not Raef. Knicks probably want Big Z and dont mind sprending the 11mil salary if Cleaveland can do something like:

Kurt Thomas + Charlie Ward + Clarence Weatherspoon
for
Tyrone Hill + Zadrunis Illgauscus????
Fritz Alcindor Jr. *FUTURE KNICK GM* falcindor@hotmail.com
falcindor
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1/7/2003  11:19 AM
We all know it isnt about this year its about next year. Kurt and Raef did play with one another in Denver. I think it would be good for NY, but it simply wouldnt happen. I think Raes value goes beyond the numbers. Knicks are better off making a run at one of the young Bulls. Kurt and a future 1st for Curry or Chandler.
Fritz Alcindor Jr. *FUTURE KNICK GM* falcindor@hotmail.com
jazz74
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1/7/2003  11:19 AM
ah, i am a little indifferent on the trade idea. the fact that lefrentz gives us size and a true shot blocker intrigues me. he can do well in the east and is a true center with range. he DID bang under the boards in denver so he can rebound. when he started, he was always ranked among the leading shot blockers. he is quick, mobile and athletic, which is something doleac is not. he is also only 26 years old which means he has a good ten to fourteen years left in him. but there are bad points too. he is very injury prone throughout his career and giving up thomas will be huge if lefrentz get hurt again. then we are forced to have more knight sightings. he shows signs of depression when he is in a slump, which is not good especially coming into a media frenzy town like new york. TWO, not one but TWO coaches soared on him about his play and lack of energy. that is not a good sign. plus, if we did get lefrentz, on paper we will probably make the playoffs with a true center and the way the players are playing. do we want that with a chance on getting a high pick? i did say that the draft was weak but last year this time we thought the draft was weak also. things can change in six months. so which decision would work in our best interests?

p.s. if dallas adds thomas and has a starting lineup of thomas, bradley, nowitski, nash and finley, they will wreck havoc in the playoffs. all they need is a grunt man who will do the dirty work and occasionally score to keep the defense honest. thomas is the man. dallas WOULD get the better part of the deal.
Caseloads
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1/7/2003  11:37 AM
raef just resigned for 6 years, 60 million. an awful deal. why are we looking into resigning long term players?! KT's contract is solid and small...
Explosive23
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1/7/2003  12:46 PM
Posted by falcindor:

Kurt and Raef did play with one another in Denver.

Kurt never played in Denver.. he's played in Miami and Dallas before NY.
Dan1078
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1/7/2003  1:15 PM
He meant to say McDyess not KT.
BRIGGS
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1/7/2003  1:37 PM
The question is-does Raef lafrentz make us that much better of a basketball team if we give up KT for the long term--adding in the extreme cost of Lafrentz's new contract-his lifetime averages and the fact that he has had major injury and has just come off another fair injury problem? Again if Im am right Raef Lafrentz is much more perimeter orientated -that is why his rebounds averages are not high. If we could get rid of dollar for dollar cost i.e if Raefs contract is 60mm over odd many of years can we dump the same back to Dallas? We realize that Mcdyess and Lafrentz played together while healthy and did not win a thing. Isnt there a more pressing need to find a player whos concentration is the post? Im not against this trade if we get $ for$ or close-but then thats it--we have no more assets to trade. Wouldnt we look around and even attempt a trade for Kwame Brown? even if we had to give up a major price--isnt it worth it to get a guy who is 100% healthy--has no major expense factor and has the physical size and potential to be a true 20-10 center? Even if we gave up Thomas Ward Vujonic and a future 1--we get back a very serious potential INTERIOR franchise player--and we are betting that the wizards are really counting their stars for this year+ the additions of Vujonic and a future 1 to sweeten the pot?
Bottom line raef Lafrentz is a LIFETIME 14 and 7 player with a history of injury. Is he better than Thomas-I would say marginally better in various ways -but again he is an expensive risk. I would be patient and I would explore a play for a real young center. the last time we dealt with Dallas we took on eisley who has been worth 1/4 of his salry--the same thing could happen with Lafrentz-the long term contract and the propensity for injury and play that doesnt equal his contract seem mighty risky to me knowing that a healthy dice and lafrentz did nothing together before injury. ANd if we do indeed give up Thomas and Mcdyess doesnt come back the trade ends up being very tumulous at best. kwame brown is the player we should be chasing with guns a blazin and stay away from players with big long term contracts with propensity for injury and the true possibility they will not offer play per $$$$$$$$

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1/7/2003  2:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

The question is-does Raef lafrentz make us that much better of a basketball team if we give up KT for the long term--adding in the extreme cost of Lafrentz's new contract-his lifetime averages and the fact that he has had major injury and has just come off another fair injury problem? Again if Im am right Raef Lafrentz is much more perimeter orientated -that is why his rebounds averages are not high. If we could get rid of dollar for dollar cost i.e if Raefs contract is 60mm over odd many of years can we dump the same back to Dallas? We realize that Mcdyess and Lafrentz played together while healthy and did not win a thing. Isnt there a more pressing need to find a player whos concentration is the post? Im not against this trade if we get $ for$ or close-but then thats it--we have no more assets to trade. Wouldnt we look around and even attempt a trade for Kwame Brown? even if we had to give up a major price--isnt it worth it to get a guy who is 100% healthy--has no major expense factor and has the physical size and potential to be a true 20-10 center? Even if we gave up Thomas Ward Vujonic and a future 1--we get back a very serious potential INTERIOR franchise player--and we are betting that the wizards are really counting their stars for this year+ the additions of Vujonic and a future 1 to sweeten the pot?
Bottom line raef Lafrentz is a LIFETIME 14 and 7 player with a history of injury. Is he better than Thomas-I would say marginally better in various ways -but again he is an expensive risk. I would be patient and I would explore a play for a real young center. the last time we dealt with Dallas we took on eisley who has been worth 1/4 of his salry--the same thing could happen with Lafrentz-the long term contract and the propensity for injury and play that doesnt equal his contract seem mighty risky to me knowing that a healthy dice and lafrentz did nothing together before injury. ANd if we do indeed give up Thomas and Mcdyess doesnt come back the trade ends up being very tumulous at best. kwame brown is the player we should be chasing with guns a blazin and stay away from players with big long term contracts with propensity for injury and the true possibility they will not offer play per $$$$$$$$


I don't see anyway that the Wizards are going to part with Brown. I like some of the suggestions BRIGGS but this one is way off. Your talking about a first overall pick. The future of the Wizards don't you think they know that O'neal (pacers) took time to develop and Brown will too. He is already showing off his potential and I don't see the Wizards selling off their future for a run at the title. After this year Jordan will be gone and they are going to need Brown more than ever. I think the Wizards have been bitten by past trade and they will not take any chances.

I can't see the Brown deal happening. Unless the Knicks get the first overall pick and they trade it away to the Wizards which I hope the KNicks don't do. As far as the LaFrentz thing I would take a long hard look at this because he is similar to Doleac an outside shooter but he is athletic and can get up and down the floor which would fit Chaney's offense well. But the main reason I might consider the trade he has played along side Nowitzki and just maybe he picked up a thing or two from him. If he did then why not at 6'11'' he maybe able to play some SF for the KNicks and create size problem for other teams. The Knicks would have to pry some picks out of Dallas if this deal were to happen. Overall this deal is a good one for the Knicks it makes them faster and bigger. Its hard to let KT go but for the right price I would pull the trigger on this one.
BRIGGS
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1/7/2003  3:12 PM
Im not giving them dung back. Im giving them a legitimate shot at making a much better run at it right now--lets face it add Thomas the starting 4 and Ward as the back up PG over Lue and those are big time upgrades. We aso give them what would be a lottery selection this year in Vujonic and a future 1st round pick while taking back a salary that will go off the books a year earlier. they do have jefferies and haywood already and you could be giving them a franchise type PG along with a young veteran 4 who will be good for another 5 years or so. I mean Portland only took dale Davis my suggestion is giving them a truckload of goodies that make sense. Realistically the best player in europe a first round pick thomas ward and taking back a longer contract--thatis a TON-especially when they already have haywood and jefferies.
RIP Crushalot😞
Vmart
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1/7/2003  3:57 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Im not giving them dung back. Im giving them a legitimate shot at making a much better run at it right now--lets face it add Thomas the starting 4 and Ward as the back up PG over Lue and those are big time upgrades. We aso give them what would be a lottery selection this year in Vujonic and a future 1st round pick while taking back a salary that will go off the books a year earlier. they do have jefferies and haywood already and you could be giving them a franchise type PG along with a young veteran 4 who will be good for another 5 years or so. I mean Portland only took dale Davis my suggestion is giving them a truckload of goodies that make sense. Realistically the best player in europe a first round pick thomas ward and taking back a longer contract--thatis a TON-especially when they already have haywood and jefferies.

Why would you do this trade you can get a Brown in this year draft. You giving up what could be a franchise PG you forget the KNicks need one too. I think the Wizards have a plan for Brown and he is is the main cog in the plan. From what I see they still want Brown and he will start next year as their pf. They are starting to play well and just as you said with Dallas why would they mess with their chemistry. The Wizards have a flow developing and I think they are going to see it through.
Fordy74
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1/7/2003  7:51 PM
Dont do this trade no freeking way! Build this team around Vujanic, Dyess, and Thomas. This is another quick fix= the LAST thing this team needs to be doing. Lafrentz is soft and does not play like a center. Think about it if we deal Thomas for Frentz who is going to bang and offer intimidation in the post? Absolutely no one! Thomas does a better job impersonating a center than Raef does and Raef is 3 inches taller. Never mind Raef's ridiculous contract. NO WAY!
martin
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1/7/2003  9:41 PM
here's what insider has to say about the trade:

"Forget about the latest report in the New York Daily News claiming that the Knicks are in hot pursuit of Mavs big man Raef LaFrentz. LaFrentz signed a seven-year, $69 million contract last summer, making him a base-year compensation player. For trading purposes, LaFrentz makes $7.2 million this season, but the Mavs can only take back $3.6 million in return."
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Raef LaFrentz

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