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Everybody Hates The Knicks - Who Cares If They Show Improvement?
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misterearl
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12/20/2006  9:50 AM
Forgive the cut and paste once again boys and girls, but nyknicks12 is a friend, and Knicks fan from "back in the day"...

>>This year's Knicks squad is better than last year's squad in that they can actually beat good teams. But they also have the burden of being the media orphans of the league. Every writer in every market weighs in on "how bad a job Isiah has done with - (name the category)" and as result NO TEAM in the league wants to have the home town scribes ripping them for losing to the Knicks. Teams get up for the Knicks as if they were one of the elites. The Knicks are so universally reviled (especially in New York!) that to lose to them is totally unacceptable.

Meanwhile, Thomas has totally revamped the roster. No he has not produced a contender but what team that was so thoroughly moribund as the Knicks in 2003 has become an elite squad within three seasons?

As I said from the beginning of last year... this squad should have been mediocre last year and advance to "not bad" this year.

Realistically that was as good as it was gonna get.

This year has been a bit disappointing but in no way has it been the unmitigated disaster portrayed in the sports pages and sports shows.

The reaction to the fight on Saturday was waaaaay over the top - that means YOU, Selena!(Roberts)

It was nasty, yeah, but to compare it the Palace brouhaha is disingenuous at best. No player in MSG went into the stands AFTER A FAN!

Hell, fans b!tch and moan if there ISN'T a fight in a hockey game. Was Tony McKegney an enforcer?

nebber mind.<<
once a knick always a knick
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babyKnicks
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12/20/2006  9:55 AM
we've had even less pieces than the great LB and are still tied with wins in our division.

But nobody calls for the other teams heads like they do the knicks.

I've actually worn it as a badge of honor.

Hate all you want, but when we get the 3rd seed in the playoffs, they will change the rules again.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
K22
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12/20/2006  9:56 AM
4th seed.

Stern changed the rules this year to prevent people from tanking to get the 6th seed. It's the three division winners and the best non-division winner ranked by record now.

[Edited by - K22 on 12-20-2006 09:58 AM]
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
izybx
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12/20/2006  9:57 AM
Lol they probably will change the rules if that happened.
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
islesfan
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12/20/2006  10:02 AM
That's a load of crap to say that 3 years after Isiah got here that this is as good as can be expected.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
misterearl
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12/20/2006  10:04 AM
Here We Go

Islesfan - read again. It isn't about Isiah Thomas dude.

>>but what team that was so thoroughly moribund as the Knicks in 2003 has become an elite squad within three seasons?
once a knick always a knick
bigbeast
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12/20/2006  10:06 AM
Not to hi-jack your thread Mr. Earl, but speaking of the fight, I was watching PTI and the reporter (white haired guy who writes for the Boston Globe, can't remember his name off the top of my head) said the fight was way over blown.

Said he saw Dave Cowens do way worse things on the court and the media just wrote "It was boys being boys" as opposed to today when the media calls the NBA "thuggery" when fights are much more rare than in the 60's and 70's. He also said that in the near 40 yrs he's been covering the league, he's never ever seen a coach rip into another coach like Karl did to Zeke which makes him believe even further that Karl was trying to run up the score and embarrass Zeke for his fellow Chapel Hill bretheren.

Sorry for the rant, BTW Earl, I agree except for the elite part.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 12-20-2006 10:08 AM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 12-20-2006 10:08 AM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
islesfan
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12/20/2006  10:07 AM
You say it's not about Isiah but then ask about the same 3 year time frame that Isiah has been here???

Just a coincidence, right?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Michael6835
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12/20/2006  10:26 AM
Posted by islesfan:

You say it's not about Isiah but then ask about the same 3 year time frame that Isiah has been here???

Just a coincidence, right?

the original did mention Thomas, but you should answer the question. What GM has revamped a team in 3 years ? Truth is no one can revamp a team in 3 yrs especially not the knicks with their situation. If we had a different GM and built through the draft and let the contracts expire, we would be looking at a chicago type situation. After Jordan left in 99, it was pretty much over for them. They just began to start mattering again. Thats almost 10 years, and thats trying to build through he draft.

I think the knicks have made progress in the 3 yrs, the players are younger and more talented. It's just a matter of time and moving a guy or two to find the right ingredient. The core works, the problem is people in NY aren't patient enough to go through the growing pains. Yet many of them say they are willing to accept a rebuilding phase through the draft.
M
misterearl
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12/20/2006  10:27 AM
Definately a coincidence. Layden had four years, just in case you're counting.

Just for the record Isles, How many years did Al Bianchi get?

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-20-2006 10:30 AM]
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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12/20/2006  10:29 AM
Posted by babyKnicks:

we've had even less pieces than the great LB and are still tied with wins in our division.

But nobody calls for the other teams heads like they do the knicks.

I've actually worn it as a badge of honor.

Hate all you want, but when we get the 3rd seed in the playoffs, they will change the rules again.
kinda like you were smelling the 2nd round last year? Oh yea, and the year before? That fight must have been crazy to see from your courtside seats.

Back to reality? earl, what exactly did you post? Something about contending, elite teams... bla bla bla

I'm very happy with the Utah win. Easily the best game of the year. But this crap about how much better we are has to stop. We have one 2 games in a row once. Once. As far as wins goes there are 3-4 teams in the NBA worse. We are in the bottom 5 right now in a field of 30. Also as bad as last year was will this years team win 6 in a row?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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12/20/2006  10:29 AM
Why do you guys care about what people think so much. I think we as a fan base and an organization need to stop worrying about it and focus on US!!! Winning makes all this go away. Winning should be our focus right no, not what the reporters are writing about us.

Just my two cents. We worry more about uprooting who the haters are than we do actually fixing our own issues.
I just hope that people will like me
Michael6835
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12/20/2006  10:33 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Why do you guys care about what people think so much. I think we as a fan base and an organization need to stop worrying about it and focus on US!!! Winning makes all this go away. Winning should be our focus right no, not what the reporters are writing about us.

Just my two cents. We worry more about uprooting who the haters are than we do actually fixing our own issues.

very true,
winning should be all thats its about.

My goal for this team is to take the atlantic div, place 4th seed in playoffs. how ironic would that be ?

and then (as i take a sip of something good) maybe we catch this incredible momentum and get lucky like in 99

ok so that was the ultra super not happening anytime soon thought :)
but thats my goal win the atlantic
M
misterearl
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12/20/2006  10:35 AM
Bippity - would you consider that "fixing our own issues" includes the persistent negative press mob that follows the Knicks in New York?

Never content to work from a framework of due diligence, reserach or original perspective...

...but more occupied with creating the most sensational headlines?

How silly is that?
once a knick always a knick
Masterplan
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12/20/2006  10:38 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Here We Go

Islesfan - read again. It isn't about Isiah Thomas dude.

>>but what team that was so thoroughly moribund as the Knicks in 2003 has become an elite squad within three seasons?

a few thoughts:

heat? 25-57 in 2003. 2006 champs. dude they were worse than us. we've sunk deeper and they've won it all.

grizzlies? jerry west has been there 4 years, made the playoffs 3 of them, i think the biggest team turnaround in league history was under him. without benefit of the oodles of cash IT had. are they elite? no. but they consistently made the playoffs in the West. if we were that good we'd be a few rounds deep in the East.

nets? thorn takes over, in his second season they take the atlantic, going from 26 to 52 wins.

suns? bulls? i've got work to do you can look that one up yourself. FYI i'm going by when new management was brought in, not by first bad season to today.

dude expecting IMPROVEMENT over IT's tenure is not unreasonable. three years is plenty of time for someone with a plan and good execution to take a lousy team and make it compete. IT took a foundering team and made it a lousy one.

bottom line, in the years since we've been down the rest of the nba has turned over. some good teams are still good (spurs), good teams have fallen (twolves, sixers), bad teams have gotten good (suns, nets), good teams have gotten bad and gotten good again (lakers, heat). we're one of the bad teams that has stayed bad. come on.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 12-20-2006 10:44 AM]
nyk4ever
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12/20/2006  10:43 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Bippity - would you consider that "fixing our own issues" includes the persistent negative press mob that follows the Knicks in New York?

Never content to work from a framework of due diligence, reserach or original perspective...

...but more occupied with creating the most sensational headlines?

How silly is that?

WHO CARES ABOUT THE PRESS!

The press hasn't changed one bit in the last 20 years, 30 years for that matter, and only when the Knicks are losing people decide to start saying they are such a distraction and how much of a problem they cause. It's pathetic what Isiah has done to our franchise that this even a topic for fans to discuss, absolutely PATHETIC.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
misterearl
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12/20/2006  10:56 AM
MasterPlan - you have no sense of context. None

Avoid what Layden left behind and the cap situation entirely.

heat- back to back number one lottery picks

grizzlies - get real, expansion team

bulls - took seven years to make the playoffs, 7

sheesh

nyk4ever - it's about the fans who parrot the press.
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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12/20/2006  10:57 AM
Question - are the Knicks showing improvement or not?
once a knick always a knick
martin
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12/20/2006  11:00 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Question - are the Knicks showing improvement or not?

I think individually some players have gotten better and some have gotten worse. Collectively? Not so sure. Team still gets down by 20 and rarely shows the all out effort needed across a whole game to win. Quarter by quarter? Sure.

I think the second year players as a group are better and the bench is definitely solid. Q is better because he is not hurt so much this year. Curry is in shape... has he gotten better or is he just not as tired? Marbury's play has tailed off and so has Craw's IMHO.

Flatline?
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Michael6835
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12/20/2006  11:04 AM
Posted by misterearl:

MasterPlan - you have no sense of context. None

Avoid what Layden left behind and the cap situation entirely.

heat- back to back number one lottery picks

grizzlies - get real, expansion team

bulls - took seven years to make the playoffs, 7

sheesh

nyk4ever - it's about the fans who parrot the press.

yeah i didnt get his examples either.

heat - in addition to what you added. They got Shaq which was the deal of a life time. Everyone was going after him, IT included, he just had nothing to offer
grizzlies - indeed they are expansion team, but now where are they... trade talks for gasol means that they need to retool. they need to be in the east with that team.
bulls- took 7 years and they are still mediocre.
nets- you forget the years the nets sucked, they were bound to get some good draft picks. then they werre able to get kidd and steal carter. But what does that mean ? They have the same record as us.

you can retool in 3yrs, you cant blow it up get rid of everyone and bring in new people and expect a finished product in 3yrs. If you do, then that is the problem, your expectations are too high.
M
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