Posted by tkf:

its funny, back in the 80's when real ball existed fans applauded hard fouls, and I saw no one asking for the head of JVG when larry Johnson and Alonzo mourining got into that slapping match and PJ brown dumped ward on his head... what a bunch of agenda driven hypocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When the rules change it forces a fan and players to think differently. If fines were'nt so extreme we'd see more fights. Since the perameters exist then this can't be tolerated on any level. By Melo doing what he did he not only cost himself a great deal of backlash but what about the fans and his team. Things like this can ruin a team's season. In the Knicks case they have nothing to worry about they were going downhill anyway this will just speed up the process.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by tkf:

its funny, back in the 80's when real ball existed fans applauded hard fouls, and I saw no one asking for the head of JVG when larry Johnson and Alonzo mourining got into that slapping match and PJ brown dumped ward on his head... what a bunch of agenda driven hypocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I blame Stern.

I don't care for him as a commissioner personally. No integrity!

Stern sold this league out to try and appeal to international players, now we have a league that is soft, bad officiating, confused officials, players, and NBA players that still can't shoot...


[Edited by - tkf on 12-17-2006 10:42 PM]

Posted by PresIke:

More angry white men who don't play game calling for the players' heads, huh? As if violent behavior didn't exist in basketball before now. Check the old ABA and NBA. Kermit Washington and Rudy T was in 1977. Please. It doesn't mean that this the fighting should be condoned, but how can you not expect this thing to happen from time to time with the amount of competitive intensity players have, the comrodery that often occurrs, plus big egos, for the most part. Curious, where's the same kind of scrutiny over fighting in hockey, or the amount of NFL players that have been arrested lately?

sfx...crickets...

[Edited by - PresIke on 12-17-2006 9:03 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 12-17-2006 9:03 PM]

Posted by tkf:

its funny, back in the 80's when real ball existed fans applauded hard fouls, and I saw no one asking for the head of JVG when larry Johnson and Alonzo mourining got into that slapping match and PJ brown dumped ward on his head... what a bunch of agenda driven hypocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by PresIke:

Posted by bettalaylow:

PresIKe

Its not so much that they fought its more about the Knicks turning into a bunch of punks. Isiah is a a complete and total piece of **** and any Knick fan that feels somehow proud about what happened the other night or think the Knick players are getting a raw deal from the media remeber this is the same team that has shown no sort of toughness at any point during the season. Where was all this toughness when the Nuggets went on a 17-0 run in the third quarter? Where was the toughness when the Pacers did a similar run in the game before? Or how about how the Boston Celtics routinely come into the Garden and look like All-Stars for a good portion of games?

I'm not sure if I saw where this article say anything about what you are talking about. All it is saying is how this is out of control, the NBA can't have this anymore...blah blah.

Anyway, I love how all of the anti-Isiah obsessed have completely given the Nuggets a pass in all this. Were the Knicks right for doing what they did? No, but don't try to humilate a team on their home floor, and leave your starters in. Should Isiah be calling for his players to foul hard late in the game? Can't say that's a great idea either, though.

However, it's interesting that a lot of those blasting people for complaining about booing because the Knicks "damn well better expect to get booed" because the team plays poorly, won't use the same logic to say the Nuggets "damn well better expect to" have their actions lead to retaliation from the Knicks...

Hmmm...

wonder why that is?

personally, i could give 2 craps about the nuggets. all i know is that it appeared that the confrontation was going to be limited as pushing and shoving until nate started throwing down. all it takes is one swing to set the whole thing off.

it's becoming apparent that isiah did in fact send mardy in to make a hard foul if someone tried to make a layup or dunk. he of course had no idea it would escalate to something this crazy. that's why he kept saying it should've been the flagrant and that's it - b/c that's what he was expecting.

but nate threw everything out of wack and that lead to many people losing their cool. melo and jeffries to name two.

whatever the case, it's not a good thing this happened. remember, there's a business side to this as well. how will tickets get sold? how do they market the team? i heard that some people already called up and cancelled tickets. i heard parents called saying their kids loved nate and now they won't allow them to watch a game as long as nate is on the team. hey, for all we know, last night was the last time we see nate in a knicks uniform. he could be traded or released b/c we know dolan doesn't like bad apples (ie. sprewell).

isiah, nate, and mardy need to be taken to task for what they did. same applies to denver but this is a knicks board. and by looking at the video, and the state the knicks are in right now, i can see stern showing no mercy at all to the knicks and this could very easily lead to isiah's firing.

and the sad thing (to some) is that what's lost in all this is the continued crappy play by this team with no solution in sight. isiah is coaching like a desperate man with no answers.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by PresIke:

Posted by bettalaylow:

PresIKe

Its not so much that they fought its more about the Knicks turning into a bunch of punks. Isiah is a a complete and total piece of **** and any Knick fan that feels somehow proud about what happened the other night or think the Knick players are getting a raw deal from the media remeber this is the same team that has shown no sort of toughness at any point during the season. Where was all this toughness when the Nuggets went on a 17-0 run in the third quarter? Where was the toughness when the Pacers did a similar run in the game before? Or how about how the Boston Celtics routinely come into the Garden and look like All-Stars for a good portion of games?

I'm not sure if I saw where this article say anything about what you are talking about. All it is saying is how this is out of control, the NBA can't have this anymore...blah blah.

Anyway, I love how all of the anti-Isiah obsessed have completely given the Nuggets a pass in all this. Were the Knicks right for doing what they did? No, but don't try to humilate a team on their home floor, and leave your starters in. Should Isiah be calling for his players to foul hard late in the game? Can't say that's a great idea either, though.

However, it's interesting that a lot of those blasting people for complaining about booing because the Knicks "damn well better expect to get booed" because the team plays poorly, won't use the same logic to say the Nuggets "damn well better expect to" have their actions lead to retaliation from the Knicks...

Hmmm...

wonder why that is?

personally, i could give 2 craps about the nuggets. all i know is that it appeared that the confrontation was going to be limited as pushing and shoving until nate started throwing down. all it takes is one swing to set the whole thing off.

it's becoming apparent that isiah did in fact send mardy in to make a hard foul if someone tried to make a layup or dunk. he of course had no idea it would escalate to something this crazy. that's why he kept saying it should've been the flagrant and that's it - b/c that's what he was expecting.

but nate threw everything out of wack and that lead to many people losing their cool. melo and jeffries to name two.

whatever the case, it's not a good thing this happened. remember, there's a business side to this as well. how will tickets get sold? how do they market the team? i heard that some people already called up and cancelled tickets. i heard parents called saying their kids loved nate and now they won't allow them to watch a game as long as nate is on the team. hey, for all we know, last night was the last time we see nate in a knicks uniform. he could be traded or released b/c we know dolan doesn't like bad apples (ie. sprewell).

isiah, nate, and mardy need to be taken to task for what they did. same applies to denver but this is a knicks board. and by looking at the video, and the state the knicks are in right now, i can see stern showing no mercy at all to the knicks and this could very easily lead to isiah's firing.

and the sad thing (to some) is that what's lost in all this is the continued crappy play by this team with no solution in sight. isiah is coaching like a desperate man with no answers.

Hey, I don't necessarily disagree with you here DJ. I did hear about Isiah being investigated about possibly sending Mardy in to foul, yet the point I was trying to make was that while this is not good for the Knicks, I read a lot of apologies from some for the Nuggets and Karl and none for the Knicks, and the fact that the media and some others blow this out of proportion, and seem to be self righteous and have short term memories about fighting in the NBA and all of sports.

Heck, I'm not proud of what the Knicks did. As for Nate, I agree that he escalated the situation, although in the end it was a combination of factors that led to what transpired of which both parties were responsible, so I have a hard time saying it is definitively one player or coaches fault. I understand parents concern about Nate, but fighting is a part of reality. It isn't a good thing, but even good people have been known to get into fights when pushed, or upset. Instead of over-romanticizing and hero worshiping the players too much this should be used as an opportunity to show that people make mistakes, and mistakes can still have consequences, so it's important to see what kind of things should happen to do our best to avoid them. Sending 50 game penalties I suspect won't work except to appease angry bitter fans, because in the heat of the moment no one is thinking about the consequences of their actions.