But this is something I noticed the other night. I know others have noticed it but the bad habit didn't become obvious to me until last night. We all know when Marbs brings the ball up he dishes and then runs to the corner. Now I didn't pay attention to what he was doing once he got there. I was assuming he was standing there, not cutting or making a basketball play but was at least ready when the ball was dished to him. There was a key possession in which he was literally standing up straight without ever imagining the ball would come to him. His hands were by his side and he was in no position to make a bsketabll play and the ball was on his side!!!!! Q ended up dishing to him, he rushed his hands up to catch it and then jacked up a three pointer almost as he did it as a last resort. Hope I'm describing this well.

#2- When he dishes to Curry in the paint and then cuts through without watching the passer. Almost like you would cut in practice when you know the ball isnt' coming to you. Not that Curry would ever dish to him, but if he did Marbs would not see it.

Again, I don't think this is a purposeful thing Marbs is doing. I don't think he's being vindictive. I think it's just a bad habit he's developed. I think that this is the key to his lack of performance for this year. Somewhere along the line he has developed the habit of complacency. He is not making basketball plays. He is going through the motions. This is a tough habit to break. But my question is his step back the result of a perceived lost step, or is it the result of this bad habit he has developed(probably last year when he wasted a year of his life quitting)?

Bip, why are you bashing Marbrury?


But seriously, Marbury has a ton of bad habits that he's developed over the years and I'm sure they have come from improper coaching because he was probably always that much better than the other kids at his age-level. Marbs has been coddled throughout his life and NOW when he's getting older and his skills and athleticism are diminishing, the bad habits that were once being covered up by 20&8 are coming to the front of the picture. In CRYSTAL CLEAR sight.

apologies in advance because this is going to be a bash on Marbury:

but imo, his biggest problem is he's afraid to fail, particularly under the spotlight of NY, his hometown... he feels the pressure of the entire city on his shoulders because of all the self-promoting bravado & hoopla he came here with, & at this point he knows that he can no longer compensate for any weaknesses in his game by putting up points night after night.

he sees that he's lost a couple steps & his body has taken a beating over the years... every time i see him pass the ball off to a teammate during crunchtime, or miss a big free throw during a comeback, this is all reinforced in my mind... the guy's deathly afraid of failure, & he's being his own worst enemy, much in the same way that A-Rod is struggling w/the Yankees (except A-Rod is still 1 of the best players in the game, whereas Marbury's game has deteriorated over the past couple seasons)

the fact that the fans are no longer in his corner is a huge psychological weight on his shoulders as well... i think he genuinely wants to play well, & the effort is there for the most part (except for when he goes into sulk mode & doesn't seem motivated to even be part of the offense like Bip described)... he just can't right now... his heart (what ever there was to begin with) is completely gone & emotionally, he's doubting himself more now than at any other time in his life... all those self-serving "I'm a winner in life" comments to the media are just more proof in my mind that he wants to try & cover up the fact that he's really doubting himself... call me a wannabe pycho analyst if you like, that's fine... to me the signs are there & they're pretty obvious even to the amateur eye.

Posted by holfresh:


This is a team wide problem..like Q not paying attention to the passer in a key possession with the game on the line...David Lee not closing out or defending three point shooters...Nate somehow thinking that degree of difficulty points are awarded for each shot...Curry and Lee not punishing guards driving to the basket...Am I going to kill Marbs for looking like he is not ready for a pass that he is not getting...Hmmm...We have tons of issues with this team..Marbs ain't the biggest...

That's what I don't get. All do respect, Q flaired out looking for the pass like he was coming off a screen to take a quick 3, and when the ball wasn't thrown to him right away he started to run (he actually started to run back into the paint, he didn't just stand there and not look at Steph) whatever plan B was on that particular play.

I have no doubt the play was for a Q 3(Knicks were down by 3 at the time). I don't know what option B was but I'm sure it wasn't what happened.

I'll go far enough to admit it was a mutual misunderstanding(and I personally think that is a stretch because I remember ANOTHER poster-I forgot who-mentioned something about noticing Q constantly directing the offensive traffic when he is on the floor-while attending a game at the Garden).

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by holfresh:


This is a team wide problem..like Q not paying attention to the passer in a key possession with the game on the line...David Lee not closing out or defending three point shooters...Nate somehow thinking that degree of difficulty points are awarded for each shot...Curry and Lee not punishing guards driving to the basket...Am I going to kill Marbs for looking like he is not ready for a pass that he is not getting...Hmmm...We have tons of issues with this team..Marbs ain't the biggest...

That's what I don't get. All do respect, Q flaired out looking for the pass like he was coming off a screen to take a quick 3, and when the ball wasn't thrown to him right away he started to run (he actually started to run back into the paint, he didn't just stand there and not look at Steph) whatever plan B was on that particular play.

I have no doubt the play was for a Q 3(Knicks were down by 3 at the time). I don't know what option B was but I'm sure it wasn't what happened.

I'll go far enough to admit it was a mutual misunderstanding(and I personally think that is a stretch because I remember ANOTHER poster-I forgot who-mentioned something about noticing Q constantly directing the offensive traffic when he is on the floor-while attending a game at the Garden).

I watched it again today and I think the ball was to be fed to the post and Marbs didn't have the angle...It would have been an easier pass for Q to make, if not he takes the three...He took his eye off the passer..But Marbs hesitated as well...He didn't hit Q as he flared out, lost eye contact with Q and didn't re-establish eye contact before passing the ball..But I think the play was to Curry...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-13-2006 7:27 PM]

I haven't rewatched the play, but from what I remember, Q was on the sideline. Very rarely is the better passing angle to the post from the position Q was in-as opposed to the postion Marbury was at on the wing, not only because of the positioning, but the passer's defender is right there for a double team. That is not to mention the fact that the defender has alot less court to cover from the position Q was in.

Did Q, have the better lane to pass? I can't say positively but I would say in my opinion it is highly unlikely, just based on the reasons above.

AS I said before, I think Curry was option B, because to me it looked like Q was running back across the lane to clear his defender and ISO Curry and Marbs. I think just from the way the play was run, I though it looked like a Q 3.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 12-13-2006 7:35 PM]

Posted by holfresh:


Q's and Marbs man we in front Curry...They sagged off the men a little..The reason that I think it wasn't meant to be a three was that the next Knick possession they went for a two with Craw driving the lane after a time out...

It's very possible. We'll both never know.At this point I feel like Marbury not getting over it ant trying to blame someone rather than trying to win the game.

Seriously, I think we're gonna hafta agree to disagree if for no ther reason the only proof either of us have is our hypothesis.

Posted by BasketballJones:

Personally I still think there was a shooter on the grassy knoll.

conpiracy theorist.

Posted by holfresh:


This is a team wide problem..like Q not paying attention to the passer in a key possession with the game on the line...David Lee not closing out or defending three point shooters...Nate somehow thinking that degree of difficulty points are awarded for each shot...Curry and Lee not punishing guards driving to the basket...Am I going to kill Marbs for looking like he is not ready for a pass that he is not getting...Hmmm...We have tons of issues with this team..Marbs ain't the biggest...

I agree with you 100%. I think it is a team wide issue and has a lot to do with the players quitting last year. They developed bad habits of compacency and are having a hard time adjusting. NOw they know that they need to come out at all times with intensity. They all have reconciled this mentally, but they continue to have moments where very few are on the court giving effort. They don't realize they are doing it because it's now a habit. This is why Bip tried to preach to the board that no matter how much the players hate the coach, even if that hate is justified you as a fan cannot condone quitting. As a boss cannot condone quitting. As a parent cannot condone quitting. Because once you allow someone to quit it becomes part of them. We developed a loser mentality last year and now Isiah who is partly to blame for this, has to try to fix it. It's a shame noone would listen. That is why you saw a team with first place on the line, come out flat. It's no mystery. It's a habit.

Now back to the topic. Again I agree that this problem is not soley Marbs. It's a team issue. But the topic of this post is trying to discover why Marbs has dropped so far. When Nate tried his dunk I made a post to talk about that action. I didn't excuse it because Lee wasn't getting out on shooters, or because Marbs wasn't making basketball plays or Q wasn't paying attention to passes in key points in the game. I talked about THAT ACTION. Now I am talking about Marbs' actions. Let's stick to that topic instead of constantly apologizing for everyone on our team.

Now back to the subject. TMS I'm with you on this one. I think Marbs has lost a step but is more than physically capable to put up big numbers. But I think everything you mentioned, and everything I mentioned is what has really affected his game. His lack of listening over the years has destroyed his game. I think Isiah kissing his arse for the past few years has been more of a confidence destroyer than a booster to be honest.