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frye is getting killed at the PF
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djsunyc
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11/29/2006  10:07 AM
courtesy of 82 games:

frye at PF:
06/07: PER 14.5, opponent: PER 47.4
05/06: PER 13.9, opponent: PER 22.5

frye at C:
06/07: PER 9.7, opponent: PER 16.1
05/06: PER 19.7, opponent: PER 13.4

the PF differential this season is staggering. in essence, other PF's are KILLING him. the differential is less pronounced this year but as you can see, he's still more effective, and less outplayed when he's our center.
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efw
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11/29/2006  10:12 AM
Frye should definitely be playing center. Curry should be backup C. simple as that. He'd destroy the bench centers. Wouldn't feel as much pressure and his rebounds wouldn't hurt us as much. He only plays bench minutes anyway.

Frye at center. Lee at PF. There's the start of somehing good.
Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  10:17 AM
They have him listed as the C and Curry as the PF whenever they play together (maybe because Frye is taller)? Your stat for this year is based on less than 8 minutes of playing time at PF.
Rich
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11/29/2006  10:22 AM
Would the calculations be different if early games in which he was awful were removed?
djsunyc
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11/29/2006  10:24 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

They have him listed as the C and Curry as the PF whenever they play together (maybe because Frye is taller)? Your stat for this year is based on less than 8 minutes of playing time at PF.

they have him listed at playing center 45% of the time, meaning he's at PF 55% of the time.
djsunyc
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11/29/2006  10:25 AM
Posted by Rich:

Would the calculations be different if early games in which he was awful were removed?


well the gap had to have reduced but that's still a nutty #. he's came out of his "funk" like 7-8 games ago.
efw
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11/29/2006  10:28 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

They have him listed as the C and Curry as the PF whenever they play together (maybe because Frye is taller)? Your stat for this year is based on less than 8 minutes of playing time at PF.

they have him listed at playing center 45% of the time, meaning he's at PF 55% of the time.

I judge a player's position by who he guards on defense. Frye guards all the PFs, Curry the centers.
Elite
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11/29/2006  10:49 AM
Frye is a center........ Fish would agree
Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  11:01 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

They have him listed as the C and Curry as the PF whenever they play together (maybe because Frye is taller)? Your stat for this year is based on less than 8 minutes of playing time at PF.

they have him listed at playing center 45% of the time, meaning he's at PF 55% of the time.
No, they have him listed as playing center 45% of the time and playing PF 0% of the time (because it's less than 1%). If you go to the Knicks' home page on 82games, you see that Frye has played in 47% of the Knicks' minutes this season (45 being center, less than 1 being PF. That adds up to 46 rather than 47 probably due to rounding). You can also go to Frye's top 5 5-man units and see that he's listed as a center in all 5. They're ranked 1 to 5 strictly on total minutes played. So none of the units with him at PF crack the top 5.
Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  11:02 AM
Posted by efw:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

They have him listed as the C and Curry as the PF whenever they play together (maybe because Frye is taller)? Your stat for this year is based on less than 8 minutes of playing time at PF.

they have him listed at playing center 45% of the time, meaning he's at PF 55% of the time.


I judge a player's position by who he guards on defense. Frye guards all the PFs, Curry the centers.

So do I, but I think 82 games goes strictly by height. I can't think of why else they always would have Curry at PF and Frye at C.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-29-2006 11:13 AM]
codeunknown
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11/29/2006  12:37 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

courtesy of 82 games:

frye at PF:
06/07: PER 14.5, opponent: PER 47.4
05/06: PER 13.9, opponent: PER 22.5

frye at C:
06/07: PER 9.7, opponent: PER 16.1
05/06: PER 19.7, opponent: PER 13.4

the PF differential this season is staggering. in essence, other PF's are KILLING him. the differential is less pronounced this year but as you can see, he's still more effective, and less outplayed when he's our center.

Those number aren't any good without controls. What are the average league PERs at the PF and center position?
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Solace
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11/29/2006  2:30 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

They have him listed as the C and Curry as the PF whenever they play together (maybe because Frye is taller)? Your stat for this year is based on less than 8 minutes of playing time at PF.

they have him listed at playing center 45% of the time, meaning he's at PF 55% of the time.
No, they have him listed as playing center 45% of the time and playing PF 0% of the time (because it's less than 1%). If you go to the Knicks' home page on 82games, you see that Frye has played in 47% of the Knicks' minutes this season (45 being center, less than 1 being PF. That adds up to 46 rather than 47 probably due to rounding). You can also go to Frye's top 5 5-man units and see that he's listed as a center in all 5. They're ranked 1 to 5 strictly on total minutes played. So none of the units with him at PF crack the top 5.

If that's true, that's a bad screw up by that site.
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Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  2:50 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

They have him listed as the C and Curry as the PF whenever they play together (maybe because Frye is taller)? Your stat for this year is based on less than 8 minutes of playing time at PF.

they have him listed at playing center 45% of the time, meaning he's at PF 55% of the time.
No, they have him listed as playing center 45% of the time and playing PF 0% of the time (because it's less than 1%). If you go to the Knicks' home page on 82games, you see that Frye has played in 47% of the Knicks' minutes this season (45 being center, less than 1 being PF. That adds up to 46 rather than 47 probably due to rounding). You can also go to Frye's top 5 5-man units and see that he's listed as a center in all 5. They're ranked 1 to 5 strictly on total minutes played. So none of the units with him at PF crack the top 5.

If that's true, that's a bad screw up by that site.
Maybe Tomverve can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I interpret the #s. I just go by the overall PER rather than the position breakdown.

tomverve
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11/29/2006  3:08 PM
Looks like Bonn is right. 82games.com has Frye playing < 1% of the total Knicks minutes at PF this season, so obviously the positional breakdown there is not to be trusted.

Besides, the sheer magnitude of the numbers there should be a clue that something is wrong (in this case, miniscule sample size). Consider that the highest PER over the course of a whole season since 1978 was by Jordan in 88 at 31.7. The league average is 15. So the numbers on 82games.com would suggest the following analogy in terms of PER:

opposing PFs guarded by Frye : Jordan's best season :: Jordan's best season : average NBA player

Frye might be slow footed on D, but clearly he's not THAT bad.

[Edited by - tomverve on 11-29-2006 3:13 PM]
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djsunyc
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11/29/2006  3:10 PM
well then this joins my other long lists of useless posts...

maybe we can merge this with the alba thread.
efw
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11/29/2006  3:25 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

well then this joins my other long lists of useless posts...

maybe we can merge this with the alba thread.

this thread is useless without pictures!
Bonn1997
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11/29/2006  4:24 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

well then this joins my other long lists of useless posts...

maybe we can merge this with the alba thread.
The way the put the #s is pretty confusing, though. I remember when I checked a while ago, I thought Frye was much worse at PF than C. It took me a while to figure out that they were simply counting him as a C during all his min on the court with Curry
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frye is getting killed at the PF
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