This is really Isiah's true failure as a general manager his inability to get players that bring different things to the table:

Centers: Curry and Frye

Scoring big man that don't have a nose for rebounding the basketball or guarding their man, thus making the interior defense a disaster. Sure Frye can hit the open jumper, but if the ball is not being fed to him for a wide open shot he usually misses. Both players have a competant post game, but their defense absolutley kills us every game.

Guards: Nate, Crawford, Francis, Marbury

Each player essential bringings something different, but do they really? I don't believe so, Nate brings a little more energy, Francis maybe a little more rebounding, but other than that, they are all players that don't involve other players in the offense and are limited on the defensive end. You know your in a little bit of trouble when francis is the most unselfish player we have......

Crawford again proved why he sucks and his stats are empty, with the Knicks in the middle of the run, he goes 1 on 3 forces up a terrible shot, the Bulls take it the length of the floor and nail a 3, which happens at least three times a game.......ME FIRST PLAYERS

SF: Jefferies/Balkman

I am going to go out on a limb and say that Jefferies a long term deal locked in at reasonable price doesn't really bring anything to the table that balkman doesn't bring. He is a little bit better defensively, but Balkman moves better, and looks to be a better finisher and rebounder, jefferies averaged what 6 rebounds as a starter to do along with 5 points those numbers are disgraceful for a player that is 6'10 and long.

I don't see jefferies as a shotblocking threat that balkman is or the rebounder that he is.

We would be in terrific position, if Isiah had no job, and that is to draft, otherwise he has been disgraceful. AS of right now, we have a championship bench, whether any of them become full time starters is a big question mark

Jefferies can be at worst a very solid role player off the bench for this team... at the salary he's making, that's good enough for me... certainly better value for the money than Big Turd & his plantar vagitis having arse.

as for Isiah's moves, half of his excellent draft picks would not have been possible w/o some of the trades he'd made unloading guys like Nazr, KT & Penny, so if you're going to give him props for drafting guys like David Lee, Nate Rob & Balkman, you have to give him props for making those trades also. the flack he gets for his bigger trades that have proven to be a disaster so far is well deserved.

Wait a second, just one second.....

We are 5-10 with the worst home record in the entire NBA; MVPS count under these circumstances?

Posted by MS:

Unloading an expiring contract and taking back steve francis thats a great point, and i don't consinder giving up expiring deals or taking on 15 + million a great deal just to get a late round pick that is for sale half the time anyway. If you offer a team 8 million dollars for a pick you think they are going to turn you down for a 30 or 29, i highly doubt it

I'm sorry, i mispoke on Penny... i was actually referring to the Antonio Davis deal where the Knicks got a draft pick along w/Jalen Rose... anyway, the point is, would you rather have the cap space for a year that doesn't help this team whatsoever, or a player like Renaldo Balkman or Nate Robinson?

It not cap space for a year dude......

Take on Mo Taylor = Buyout and 9 million on the cap
Takes on Rose = 16.9 extra on the cap
Trades for Francis = 15 million a year over 3
Trade expiring for Mailk= 3 years of salary for a couple of late picks

You can get under the cap without making bonehead plays, like renting a player for a year instead of giving James a 5 year deal. Its not hard to get under the cap if you don't make bad decision

Posted by Bonn1997:

I doubt Dolan will ever allow a GM to get under the cap because it means not having big name players who sell jerseys.

Dolan is such a bumblehead. If he did the math on what would happen IF he were able to get under the cap and create a winning team (no luxury tax, fill the seats), he would be able to see the light.

MS - with that (cough) logic, the drafting of David Lee is yet another failure of Isiah Thomas

Rich - would you call a plot of land with young sprouts a failure?

Let them grow

Not calling the deal a failure there are easier ways to get the last pick in the draft something a lot of teams are interested in dealing especially vetran teams not looking to add another contract.

Was it worth making a deal for Jalen to get a draft choice, I still say no if your looking at things logically, it cost 24 million dollars for a rotation player.

My logic is this, he makes moves to get players because they are the better talent in the deal without a plan.

If you think its logical to take on contracts, and then just buy them out, why isn’t it more logical to offer the contract you would inherit in straight cash, which is allowed.

Malik Rose 4 ½ years 27 million for two late draft picks 29 and 30
Jalen Rose 1 ½ years 24 million for the 21 pick in the draft
Jerome Williams 18 million to get Crawford who no one wants
Signing JJ to 30 million over five, when no one else was making an offer

He is an incompetent person when evaluating the long term of the deal

Giving a player like Crawford a long term deal, because you need talent is absurd, so my logic is this, when you have a player no one wants, (Steve Francis, add his 15 million over three) who shoots 39% there is no need to give expiring contracts away and take on 18 million to get him.

He gets fleeced on everything he does and hasn’t really made a lot of smart deals. I like the Nate deal, but Q still has 25 million and 3 years left with a back that could go out at any second....

Give me cost of the overall scheme of things?

Its the same thing, bringing in a player to get a pick, or bringing in a player to acquire talent....