[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

All of Isiahs moves looked good at the time, except 1
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Elite
Posts: 26372
Alba Posts: 23
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #510
11/10/2006  12:36 PM
The Francis trade.... Every other trade you could totally justify at the time it happened.

For instance the curry trade - NOBODY and i mean NOBODY on this board or anywhere else thought that the draft pick we traded would end up a #2 pick... We also got to unload the bitchy Tim Thomas and most people concidered Curry to be the center of the future at that time.

Jerome James? You might say he overpaid... But at the TIME he did it, it diddnt look so bad, we needed a center desperately and some inside shotblocking. That is what James was supposed to bring, coming off those playoff performences i diddnt hear many people complaining AT THE TIME.

This applies to all Isiahs moves EXCEPT Francis which made no sense ever.
AUTOADVERT
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
11/10/2006  12:48 PM
the mo taylor trade looked like a horrible panic trade at the time. the malik rose and jalen trades didn't look good, other than the fact that we got picks there. I didn't like the Jerome james move at the time, either. The Vin Baker move always looked dumb to me.

though I will admit I was pretty much on board with all the other moves. I loved the Crawford trade, thought the Marbury trade was a needed shot in the arm, liked the KVH/TT+Nazr trade before TT came here and stank it up, thought the Curry trade would change our franchise, loved the Qrich+Nate/KT trade, loved the Jefferies signing. I have to confess, I even loved the Moochie Norris/Spoon trade.

but, hey, most of them have not worked out. to a man, most of the guys he's traded for or signed have been horrendous defenders. he's drafted better defenders, but really, our defense sucks and when you look at the long line of non-defenders he's traded for/signed, it's pretty clear why.
¿ △ ?
Marv
Posts: 35570
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
11/10/2006  1:23 PM
i also really disliked the jalen trade, i didn't want him on the team and thought it continued a bad trend with isiah.

but i really hated the curry trade, and not because i anticipated the #2 pick business either. it was because i couldn't stand the guy's game in chicago. and i didn't like the lack of development either. all he did was take the one thing he knew how to do and just keep trying to do it more and more. plus i watched very closely every time we played them and just relished the sight of sweetney throwing eddy's fat ass out of the paint, watching eddy being afraid to re-enter it, then watching skiles pulling him in disgust.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
11/10/2006  1:29 PM
to me, the one trade that didn't make sense was the nazr deal. malik had 4 more years remaining on his deal and the two #1's coming back were going to be #25+ when those picks probably could've been acquired in another fashion (as we've seen with teams selling picks for cash). the move also resulted in many more mistakes. instead of keeping nazr around as an expiring that summer (where he would've had MORE value), we were left with no center and that's where jerome comes in.

worst trade in retrospect has been the marbury deal b/c outside of 2 extra home games in april 2004, he's hurt us more than help (and we're not done paying for it).

curry trade was a pure overpayment. but the ramifications of it are still TBD.

francis move, imho, was the nail in the coffin.
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
11/10/2006  1:35 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

to me, the one trade that didn't make sense was the nazr deal. malik had 4 more years remaining on his deal and the two #1's coming back were going to be #25+ when those picks probably could've been acquired in another fashion (as we've seen with teams selling picks for cash). the move also resulted in many more mistakes. instead of keeping nazr around as an expiring that summer (where he would've had MORE value), we were left with no center and that's where jerome comes in.

worst trade in retrospect has been the marbury deal b/c outside of 2 extra home games in april 2004, he's hurt us more than help (and we're not done paying for it).

curry trade was a pure overpayment. but the ramifications of it are still TBD.

francis move, imho, was the nail in the coffin.

I agree with most of this - but we have to remember how well Marbury played when he first arrived here. He was averaging like 19.5ppg and 9.5apg and just playing out of his head, combining that with the way he'd played for the Suns the year before, almost knocking off the Spurs, it really seemed like we'd gotten a franchise player. Lenny seemed like the perfect coach for him, Nazr seemed like a solid center. We probably overpaid, but for that first calendar year he was here, really until his comment that he was "the best" he actually was one of the best PGs in the NBA. until that point, we were well over .500 with Marbury here (I believe it was 23-19 in 03-04 and then 16-13 in 04-05) - then the wheels came completely off, Jamal and Houston and Nazr got injured, Steph's personality flaws surfaced, Lenny quit/got forced out and it's been wretched ever since.
¿ △ ?
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
11/10/2006  1:37 PM
honeymoon period.
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
11/10/2006  1:41 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

honeymoon period.

it was great... sniff. now he never calls and just sits on the couch all night. what went wrong!?!?!
¿ △ ?
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
11/10/2006  1:43 PM
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
11/10/2006  1:45 PM
actually, hearing Marbury's comments to the press - he's saying all the right things right now. I think he and Isiah will be fine. There doesn't seem to be strain there.
¿ △ ?
Elite
Posts: 26372
Alba Posts: 23
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #510
11/10/2006  1:52 PM
you can split hairs about some moves like the MoTaylor or Malik trades... Which i think the picks made them look good at the time too.

But remember im talking about AT THE TIME.. not now.. of course a tun of them look bad in retrospect.. Im just trying to give Isiah a little slack
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
11/10/2006  1:55 PM
Posted by Elite:

you can split hairs about some moves like the MoTaylor or Malik trades... Which i think the picks made them look good at the time too.

But remember im talking about AT THE TIME.. not now.. of course a tun of them look bad in retrospect.. Im just trying to give Isiah a little slack

the Mo Taylor trade looked horrendous at the time, we gave up two second round picks in that trade. just an awful move, his worst by far.

the Jerome James trade looked bad at the time as well. anyway, it's no use digging this stuff up.
¿ △ ?
MS
Posts: 27064
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/28/2004
Member: #724
11/10/2006  1:59 PM
I'm sorry but are you ****ing kidding me

The Jerome James signing looked like the worst of the offseason right when it happen.....

The Malik and Mo deals were terrible deals......

The Crawford deal was nothing to brag about either, essentially Crawford is making his salary plus Jerome Williams which is 7 million, so your paying him close to 14million for his services....

The Jalen Rose deal was laughable, you paid 22 million for the right to Renaldo Balkman

Every move he has made has been close to terrible
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/10/2006  2:03 PM
Posted by Elite:

Jerome James? You might say he overpaid... But at the TIME he did it, it diddnt look so bad, we needed a center desperately and some inside shotblocking. That is what James was supposed to bring, coming off those playoff performences i diddnt hear many people complaining AT THE TIME.

dude, i was all over the forums when the Knicks signed Big Turd saying it was the worst possible FA signing, as was fishmike & a few others... any criticism Isiah gets for that stroke of brilliance is more than well deserved.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-10-2006 2:05 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Elite
Posts: 26372
Alba Posts: 23
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #510
11/10/2006  2:23 PM
bah u guys are prolly right lol i give up.. defending isiah is too hard i just wanted to give it a shot
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/10/2006  2:31 PM
hey, i don't have a problem defending Isiah for his draft choices... i think he deserves HUGE props for taking Trevor Ariza, David Lee, Nate Robinson... the jury's still out on Balkman & Mardy, but so far so good imo... Channing looked great out of the gate but he's really taken a step back this season, so i can understand some people second guessing that one for Andrew Bynum, but i think it's still way too early to say he made a mistake on that pick, because if Frye can get his head screwed on straight again & start playing like he was early last season, i don't think you'll be hearing a whole lot of complaints about him anymore.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Elite
Posts: 26372
Alba Posts: 23
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #510
11/10/2006  2:51 PM
I wont judge channing yet its not fair.. its obviously a mental issue hes going thru right now, he could break out of it any night
purple012870
Posts: 21778
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2003
Member: #432
11/10/2006  4:25 PM
didn't we get the Lee draft slot in the Mo trade? or was that teh Nazr trade?
nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
11/10/2006  5:43 PM
You chalk up the Francis trade to our malingering HOF coach wanting him. But JJ1 was indefensible. The dude played against a busted center and put up decent numbers after a career of doing nothing and was signed to a long term contract. MoT was a terrible trade anyway you look at it too. I remeber being kinda iffy when I thought WE were getting the draft pick.
Posted by Elite:

The Francis trade.... Every other trade you could totally justify at the time it happened.

For instance the curry trade - NOBODY and i mean NOBODY on this board or anywhere else thought that the draft pick we traded would end up a #2 pick... We also got to unload the bitchy Tim Thomas and most people concidered Curry to be the center of the future at that time.

Jerome James? You might say he overpaid... But at the TIME he did it, it diddnt look so bad, we needed a center desperately and some inside shotblocking. That is what James was supposed to bring, coming off those playoff performences i diddnt hear many people complaining AT THE TIME.

This applies to all Isiahs moves EXCEPT Francis which made no sense ever.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27774
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
11/10/2006  6:57 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

to me, the one trade that didn't make sense was the nazr deal. malik had 4 more years remaining on his deal and the two #1's coming back were going to be #25+ when those picks probably could've been acquired in another fashion (as we've seen with teams selling picks for cash). the move also resulted in many more mistakes. instead of keeping nazr around as an expiring that summer (where he would've had MORE value), we were left with no center and that's where jerome comes in.
Have to agree here. That trade lead to other bad ones, and we may have had a better team with Nazr + Kurt, which woulda turned into Curry (without the picks) and therefor still Q, Nate, and maybe Ttyrus Thomas.

worst trade in retrospect has been the marbury deal b/c outside of 2 extra home games in april 2004, he's hurt us more than help (and we're not done paying for it).
Ridiculous. Hurt us more than help? That is complete and utter nonsense. There is nothing of value we lost in that trade.
curry trade was a pure overpayment. but the ramifications of it are still TBD.
agreed.

francis move, imho, was the nail in the coffin.
[/quote]

nyk4ever
Posts: 41012
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
11/10/2006  7:23 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

2004, he's hurt us more than help (and we're not done paying for it).
Ridiculous. Hurt us more than help? That is complete and utter nonsense. There is nothing of value we lost in that trade.

One can argue theres nothing of value we gained from that trade either. I believe we still owe Phoenix a draft pick from that deal as well.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
All of Isiahs moves looked good at the time, except 1
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy