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Choose between heart and talent...
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jskinny35
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11/7/2006  2:09 PM
Our roster is flawed in that we have very few players with both (heart and talent). Heart represents defense, effort, hustle and intangibles. Talent represents skill level, shooting/scoring and ease to perform these skills. Look at our roster. I rated the players 1-5 on talent and heart.

1-awful, 2-decent, 3-good, 4-v.good, 5-special

Curry - Talent - 4, Heart - 1
Frye - Talent - 3, Heart - 2.5
Lee - Talent - 3, Heart - 3.5
Q.Rich - Talent - 3, Heart - 4
Marbury - Talent - 4, Heart - 1.5
Francis - Talent - 4, Heart - 2
Nate - Talent - 4, Heart - 4
Balkman - Talent - 3, Heart - 5
J.James - Talent - 2.5, Heart - 0
Cato - Talent - 1.5, Heart - 3.5
M.Rose - Talent - 1.5, Heart - 5
M.Collins - Talent - 2.5, Heart - 4.5
Crawford - Talent - 4, Heart - 3
Jeffries - Talent - 3, Heart - 4

So only Q.Rich, Jeffries, Nate, Lee, Balkman, Collins and Crawford have somewhat of a balance between talent and heart. You need both to win and be successful (see Tim Thomas). It's time to start making changes based on these variables. It's why many of us don't feel it's worth trying to "see if Curry develops further." He's a grown man and isn't going to acquire enough heart in a short period of time to make a difference for this team. Same reason people hate on Marbury - he just doesn't have the qualities other than talent (intelligence, leadership, defensive effort) needed to make this team respectable. I would rather watch M.Rose struggle with his ugly offensive moves b/c at least I know he's trying his hardest. There's respect in that, regardless of the box score. The old 90's knicks had Starks, LJ, Ewing, Oakley - all talented and with big hearts.

Why do we continue to waste time trying to acquire talented players with the idea we can instill heart in them? It's easier to find someone hungry and teach them how to shoot, pass and play defense. We do the exact opposite! Where's the Junkyard Dog when you need em?
AUTOADVERT
TMS
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11/7/2006  2:32 PM
i'll take a guy w/heart & hustle & average talent over an unmotivated guy w/tons of talent *cough* Tim Thomas *cough* any day of the week & twice on sunday.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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11/7/2006  2:33 PM
Marbury's heart.. I'd give it a -3.

On the other hand, if he has a good game, maybe he can sell some more shoes.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
SugarRayRichardson
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11/7/2006  2:36 PM
Sean Elliot made a good point last night. 2nd units injecting hustle is great but not unusual. Its when the same players with lesser talent are asked to play longer minutes it becomes a problem. Because they cant keep up that same pace for 35-40 minutes a night.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
BRIGGS
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11/7/2006  2:36 PM
To win in this league, you need your two main guys to have two 5s. Otherwise you might as well sck and save your money. You need to be able to spot a potential 5 talent or be in position to get one with a very high pick. That is the formula for success in the NBA always has been always will be. we have doo-doo
RIP Crushalot😞
Elite
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11/7/2006  2:38 PM
Curry should have a Bigger heart than Marbury as far as im concerned
izybx
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11/7/2006  3:02 PM
Posted by jskinny35:

Our roster is flawed in that we have very few players with both (heart and talent). Heart represents defense, effort, hustle and intangibles. Talent represents skill level, shooting/scoring and ease to perform these skills. Look at our roster. I rated the players 1-5 on talent and heart.

1-awful, 2-decent, 3-good, 4-v.good, 5-special

Curry - Talent - 4, Heart - 1
Frye - Talent - 3, Heart - 2.5
Lee - Talent - 3, Heart - 3.5
Q.Rich - Talent - 3, Heart - 4
Marbury - Talent - 4, Heart - 1.5
Francis - Talent - 4, Heart - 2
Nate - Talent - 4, Heart - 4
Balkman - Talent - 3, Heart - 5
J.James - Talent - 2.5, Heart - 0
Cato - Talent - 1.5, Heart - 3.5
M.Rose - Talent - 1.5, Heart - 5
M.Collins - Talent - 2.5, Heart - 4.5
Crawford - Talent - 4, Heart - 3
Jeffries - Talent - 3, Heart - 4

So only Q.Rich, Jeffries, Nate, Lee, Balkman, Collins and Crawford have somewhat of a balance between talent and heart. You need both to win and be successful (see Tim Thomas). It's time to start making changes based on these variables. It's why many of us don't feel it's worth trying to "see if Curry develops further." He's a grown man and isn't going to acquire enough heart in a short period of time to make a difference for this team. Same reason people hate on Marbury - he just doesn't have the qualities other than talent (intelligence, leadership, defensive effort) needed to make this team respectable. I would rather watch M.Rose struggle with his ugly offensive moves b/c at least I know he's trying his hardest. There's respect in that, regardless of the box score. The old 90's knicks had Starks, LJ, Ewing, Oakley - all talented and with big hearts.

Why do we continue to waste time trying to acquire talented players with the idea we can instill heart in them? It's easier to find someone hungry and teach them how to shoot, pass and play defense. We do the exact opposite! Where's the Junkyard Dog when you need em?

LOL. Dude, how do you know that mardy collins has so much heart? So mardy collins plays with more heart than anyone on the roster, almost enough to make him a specail player in the model of a j.starks. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT!!!!!!!!!! All you seen was him come of the bench and hit a couple shots, is that your definition of heart? hitting a couple shots?
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
jskinny35
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11/7/2006  4:01 PM
It has nothing to do with hitting shots, I have watched his effort level. He seems to care and take pride in playing hard. I defined heart as effort, defense, hustle and intangibles. In the few time we have seen Mardy Collins play - I have seen a good deal of effort, scrapiness, hustle and defense. Last year I saw that from Q.Rich, despite the fact that he couldn't shoot to save his life.

This is the reason for this post - most of us aren't as concerned with the boxscore, as much as the effort level and intelligence on the court. We know it's a long road with young players. But the heart has to be there, otherwise you're wasting you time. Ever notice when someone says so and so had a good game because he shot well from the field? While that helps, having a good game also means rotating correctly, getting back on defense, hustling to save a loose ball, etc... The players I have criticized with my ratings don't tend to do much of these things. When I watch a Knick game, I'm ok with losing to the Spurs as long as the Knicks challenge them and don't let them embarrass us. But last night (1st half and after we made our run), they made us look like we had no idea how to defend them? And we clearly didn't/don't. Compared to the other Knicks, what would you think Collins deserves (based on my definition)?
Vmart
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11/7/2006  4:47 PM
Does anyone recall when Marbury last got on the floor for a loose ball. I can't recall a time when he hustles out there on defense. As far as I'm concerned Defense is all heart and Marbury is a complete 0 in that department. Last night after Marbury hit two straight shots he puts up another shot sort of like a heat check. I'm sorry but pgs are never suppose to be thinking heat check but simply the easiest method of scoring either it be the team or him. WHy is it that everytime he settles for a three when the team has basically climbed all the way back. See Atlanta game and last nights game. He should have been hell bent going to the rack.

I don't want to completely place blame on Marbury but there are some heartless players on the KNicks and they are hurting the KNicks badly. Simply the lack of hustle can not be accepted. They should start games on fire and take it to the opponents first not wait for them to take it to the Knicks and wait for them to become bored with them and that will constitite as defense played. Last night was a complete joke. The Knicks best defense is that they have an ability to bore their opponents to sleep and take advantage of it. Just maybe a team will get bored with the Knicks and forget to wake up just maybe then they can steal a game here and there.

Everyone here is second unit showed hustle and and they did but is it just me I thought the Spurs lost interest in the game.
purple012870
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11/7/2006  4:58 PM
For heart & smarts, I'll take what I've seen out of D Lee so far any day of the week. To me, he ranks a clear # 1 on the team in instincts & neck & neck with Little Nate re: consistent effort.
Nalod
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11/7/2006  5:08 PM
Nate is a 5!

Nate is special.

Special Nate.
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Choose between heart and talent...
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