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lakers with KOBE but without shaq are the same as the knicks...
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Caseloads
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11/23/2002  1:27 AM
the knicks had a 3-9 record without shaq

the lakers had a 3-9 record with kobe but no shaq...

does anyone realize that the lakers even with kobe sucked with shaq gone? why doesn't anyone give them crap for that? the Lakers are NOTHING without shaq, and Kobe, despite having stats can not lead a team, yet...

and what has kareem rush proven? all he has to do is get in the game and shoot the ball

why is everyone dumping on f-will? he plays arguably the toughest position to master in the league, PG, and has a crappy coach, and is just a rookie, with no mentors on the court... should have dealt spoon or anderson to denver, or even eisley or ward... not mark jax (even though he was crap) - b/c mjax could have tutored frank williams...
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martin
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11/23/2002  1:59 AM
good article here on Jackson... being less than a coach than the general pop thinks he is. I agree.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/838537.asp
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martin
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11/23/2002  2:01 AM
and what's up with FWill only getting 2 minutes? How is this guy supposed to gain experience?
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sebstar
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11/23/2002  9:56 PM
The reason why nobody dumps on the Lakers is because they have built their team around arguably the most dominant player the game has ever seen, and they have 3 straight championship banners to prove that their formula is a successful one. Knicks have nothing to show for the last three years except for heartache. Sh*t, the only thing the Knicks have been building the past few years, is resentment from their own fanbase. Who cares if the Lakers start slow, you think the Lakes aren't going to be around in June?

Knick apologists have tried to float around the McDyess/Shaq excuse, but trying to compare the loss of Mcdyess to Shaq is an excercise in foolishness. The Knicks would still be below .500 with Dyess in all probability.

As far as Phil Jackson goes, again...talk to the rings. Doug Collins or Del Harris couldnt get the same team to the finals that Phil wins back to back to back championships with. I can't stand Phil or the Lakers, but I at least respect their gangsta. It's the same argument the haters level at Joe Torre, you need talent, the coach/manager can't get in the game and play himself.

Us Knicks fans should demand superstar players and coaches for our own team, instead of taking potshots at an organization that has its **** together and approaches things the right way.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
OasisBU
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11/23/2002  11:15 PM
Posted by sebstar:

The reason why nobody dumps on the Lakers is because they have built their team around arguably the most dominant player the game has ever seen, and they have 3 straight championship banners to prove that their formula is a successful one. Knicks have nothing to show for the last three years except for heartache. Sh*t, the only thing the Knicks have been building the past few years, is resentment from their own fanbase. Who cares if the Lakers start slow, you think the Lakes aren't going to be around in June?

Knick apologists have tried to float around the McDyess/Shaq excuse, but trying to compare the loss of Mcdyess to Shaq is an excercise in foolishness. The Knicks would still be below .500 with Dyess in all probability.

As far as Phil Jackson goes, again...talk to the rings. Doug Collins or Del Harris couldnt get the same team to the finals that Phil wins back to back to back championships with. I can't stand Phil or the Lakers, but I at least respect their gangsta. It's the same argument the haters level at Joe Torre, you need talent, the coach/manager can't get in the game and play himself.

Us Knicks fans should demand superstar players and coaches for our own team, instead of taking potshots at an organization that has its **** together and approaches things the right way.

Exactly.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
knixphan
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11/24/2002  4:15 AM
I don't think Case was taking shots at the Laker organization, but the much-hyped 'Kobe-as-the-best-player' notion that seems to be the new hot mantra...Along with the Phil J. mystique.

I agree that Shaq is indeed the unstoppable force, and would lead a number of teams to a championship if he were on their roster right now...Imagine him in Orlando still, with TMAC! Or in Toronto with a healthy Vince, or In Milwaukee with Ray and Sam, or In Houston with Franchise, not to mention Phoenix with Starbury and Matrix...Even a starting five of Shaq,KT,Anderson,Houston and Eisley would still take the Kings to a game seven in the finals...imho-

More cameras in LA, though.
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martin
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11/24/2002  2:13 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Knick apologists have tried to float around the McDyess/Shaq excuse, but trying to compare the loss of Mcdyess to Shaq is an excercise in foolishness. The Knicks would still be below .500 with Dyess in all probability.

I can't agree that the Knicks would be still below .500 if Dice was at full health. The Knicks are such a better team if they have a legitimate low post player - it spreads the D. And with that both Houston and Spree become much better players. No need for either of these guys to post, which really negates their strengths, slashing and long-range jumpers. Dice would also bring weak-side shot blocking and rounding to the game, something they sorely lack today.

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DefAndReb
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11/24/2002  2:23 PM
Posted by OasisBU:
Posted by sebstar:

The reason why nobody dumps on the Lakers is because they have built their team around arguably the most dominant player the game has ever seen, and they have 3 straight championship banners to prove that their formula is a successful one. Knicks have nothing to show for the last three years except for heartache. Sh*t, the only thing the Knicks have been building the past few years, is resentment from their own fanbase. Who cares if the Lakers start slow, you think the Lakes aren't going to be around in June?

Knick apologists have tried to float around the McDyess/Shaq excuse, but trying to compare the loss of Mcdyess to Shaq is an excercise in foolishness. The Knicks would still be below .500 with Dyess in all probability.

As far as Phil Jackson goes, again...talk to the rings. Doug Collins or Del Harris couldnt get the same team to the finals that Phil wins back to back to back championships with. I can't stand Phil or the Lakers, but I at least respect their gangsta. It's the same argument the haters level at Joe Torre, you need talent, the coach/manager can't get in the game and play himself.

Us Knicks fans should demand superstar players and coaches for our own team, instead of taking potshots at an organization that has its **** together and approaches things the right way.

Exactly.

I second. Well said.
MCfan23
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11/24/2002  3:15 PM
Posted by knixphan:

I don't think Case was taking shots at the Laker organization, but the much-hyped 'Kobe-as-the-best-player' notion that seems to be the new hot mantra...Along with the Phil J. mystique.

Shaq is the best player in the league right now, I think everyone agrees. But I think Kobe is second best.

You have to realize that, right now, the Lakers are built around Shaq and for Shaq. Guys like Robert Horry, Brian Shaw, and even Kobe are perfect complementary players to the big fella.

Without Shaq, the Lakers won a few games riding Kobe's brilliance, but when Samaki Walker is your only inside presence and you have to rely upon the likes of Fox and Fisher to shoot the ball 15 times a game, you can't expect to be above .500.

You'll see how good a player and leader Kobe is when the right players are around him. In two or three years' time, the Lakers will be his team and he will dictate who his teammates are and how the offense is run, etc.
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knixphan
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11/24/2002  7:00 PM
But doesn't that hold true for a number of great players? - If you put the perfect compliments around them, they'd excel. TMAC can easily be in that '#2" spot, as well as Garnett, Duncan, Payton, Iverson, Pierce....

But to be fair, Kobe gets more time on McDonalds commercials.
"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
Caseloads
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11/24/2002  9:25 PM
Posted by sebstar:

The reason why nobody dumps on the Lakers is because they have built their team around arguably the most dominant player the game has ever seen, and they have 3 straight championship banners to prove that their formula is a successful one. Knicks have nothing to show for the last three years except for heartache. Sh*t, the only thing the Knicks have been building the past few years, is resentment from their own fanbase. Who cares if the Lakers start slow, you think the Lakes aren't going to be around in June?

Knick apologists have tried to float around the McDyess/Shaq excuse, but trying to compare the loss of Mcdyess to Shaq is an excercise in foolishness. The Knicks would still be below .500 with Dyess in all probability.

As far as Phil Jackson goes, again...talk to the rings. Doug Collins or Del Harris couldnt get the same team to the finals that Phil wins back to back to back championships with. I can't stand Phil or the Lakers, but I at least respect their gangsta. It's the same argument the haters level at Joe Torre, you need talent, the coach/manager can't get in the game and play himself.

Us Knicks fans should demand superstar players and coaches for our own team, instead of taking potshots at an organization that has its **** together and approaches things the right way.

look -

1) the knicks would probably be one of the top 4 teams in the east if dyess and houston and spree were healthy from day one (of course there'd be no lee nailon, but he gets no minutes now that spree is back, so who cares)

2) Phil Jackson gets players that have been broken in and finally matured by the time he gets there... michael was already a stud and nearly upset the bad boys all by himself... when phil got there, that year mike was poised for a breakthrough, whether phil was there or not. and kobe wasn't jack until eddie jones was dealt away and he finally matured... not phil's move at all - phil didn't make kobe not be a rookie... who do you think broke kobe in? it was Del Harris. let's see what phil can do with Rush... rush can either be a really good SG/Sf if phil plays it right, a lesser pippen to kobe's jordan, or he can let "rush" rot and become "mush"
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lakers with KOBE but without shaq are the same as the knicks...
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