I saw vince run the point in charlotte last year and was very impressed with the job he did.

Vince can do anything on the court! Amazing player.

Hey, I totally forgot the most important part of the conversation. We talked about the Knicks. He thinks we will suck this year, and that IT will be fired. I asked him what he thought of the job the LB did last year, him being a former Piston. He said he didn't think LB did it on purpose, just that didn't realize the extent of the FUBAR at the Knicks. He likes Curry and Frye and thinks we should run the whole offense through Crawford, who he really thinks will be good. He said we need to dump Francis, and that Marbury will be better this year.

Yeah Fish, it was really cool meeting an NBA player. We were just sitting in a bar, and we noticed him sitting on the other side,went over ans had a great conversation. He was totally cool. BTW, even Darvin Ham got a posse nowadays. Crazy stuff.

what is FUBAR? lol

Posted by Elite:

what is FUBAR? lol

F-cked Up Beyond All Recognition

You really never heard that? You should RTFM a little to catch up

Posted by SeatsBlue:

According to Larry Haters he's so bad offensively as a coach that a replacement like Flip is addition by subtraction. Here we read comments from a player coached by Flip who feels he's incompetent, inadequate, and a MORON. But wait a second....... the rest of the players on the team feel as Ham does yet they went out last yr and played for him winning 60+ games. This yr they will probably win about 50 although they feel he's a DOPE and a TARD. None of the players besides Lindsey Hunter and Ben, who was long gone anyway, has slammed Flip and their GM(Dumars) has publicly stood behind his coach through all the grumblings and negative press since last season has concluded.


The Pistons situation, although similar in many ways, so far has been handled from the top the direct opposite from what transpired here with Larry and the Knicks.

[Edited by - SeatsBlue on 10-20-2006 11:06 AM]

[Edited by - SeatsBlue on 10-20-2006 11:10 AM]

This is because most self-motivated players don't play for the coach. They play for the team.

My question is....How would he know how good M.Williams is? He doesn't play for the Nets...unless he's just going off what he has seen him do in College.

you asked him some pretty good questions.....but mostly I'm glad to hear that he was a down to earth guy

Posted by Andrew:

Ham is on the Nets now.

oh

When William wins rookie of the year and is on a pace to be 2nd all-time in assists, 12 all-time in games played, and is racking up triple doubles while running winning teams all by himself, I'll be happy to compare him to Mark Jackson.

oohah

Posted by fishmike:

man, Mark JAckson was a nice player, a great passer but the man couldnt guard Bob down at the YMCA, and did he ever break 5 rebounds a game for a year?

Great passer, good at posting up smaller guards and thats about it. Average to below shooter. Average rebounder. Horrible defender and pretty much a half court player for all his career.


MW and MJ's college stats are pretty similar, and both had pretty succesfull teams.

First:

http://www.stjohns.edu/athletics/legacy/markjackson.sju

He was named first-team All-BIG EAST and All-Metropolitan and was an AP honorable mention All-American. In his senior season, Jackson was named the BIG EAST Conference's Defensive Player of the Year. He was a second team All-America selection by AP, UPI and Basketball Weekly. He was the co-recipient of the Haggerty Award given to the MVP of the Metropolitan area and was a first-team All-BIG EAST selection. Jackson averaged 18.9 points per game his senior season and finished his career with 1,328 points.

Dude, Mark Jackson was one of the better rebounding PG's throughout his career. See below. In addition, he was a muuuuch better college player than Williams, I don't have the time to pull the specifics now, but off the top of my head: Set an NCAA record for assists as a Junior, Big East player of the year, Big east defensive player of the year, All-american and more.

The only thing Williams has on Jackson is that he won a National championship because he played on one of the most stacked teams in history. in Jackson's last 2 years in college, he was the man on St. Johns, and he dominated the competition.

Just look it up Fish, he was waaay better than Williams.

And I just ran you through just a few of his NBA accomplishments. Do you think Williams is coming anywhere near that?

You're wrong about Jackson's rebounding. He was an excellent rebounder. Jackson has a career rebounding average of 3.6. Great for point guard. Those are small forward numbers. As a rookie he averaged 4.8. One year he averaged 5.2 rebounds.

You're wrong about Jackson being a strictly half-court player. Do you remember that he ran Pitino's running offense to perfection his first 2 years in the NBA? And he led the NBA in assists while on the running-style Denver nuggets? He could run any kind of offense: Larry Brown's, Jerry Sloans, Rick Pitino's, and Lou Carnesecca's.

He was an average "outside" shooter for a PG. But you have to remember for most of his career, he refused to shoot until there was no other option, something we have been crying for since Marbury got here. Also he made honest to god clutch shots, not the Crawford variety.

He also became so good at posting up the NBA changed the rules.

He came up with a shot that he was so good at it has become part of the basketball lexicon: The "Teardrop".

Everybody likes to harp on Jackson's defense, but I am more concerned with what he did at a superlative level!

Mark Jackson Career stats:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mark_jackson/index.html

CAREER AVERAGES
                REBOUNDS PER GAME  
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
 87-88 NYK82 80 39.6 .432 .254 .774 1.50 3.40 4.80 10.6 2.50 .07 3.15 3.00 13.6
 88-89 NYK72 72 34.4 .467 .338 .698 1.50 3.30 4.70 8.6 1.93 .10 3.14 2.30 16.9
 89-90 NYK82 69 29.6 .437 .267 .727 1.30 2.60 3.90 7.4 1.33 .05 2.57 1.50 9.9
 90-91 NYK72 21 22.2 .492 .255 .731 .90 1.90 2.70 6.3 .83 .13 1.88 1.10 8.8
 91-92 NYK81 81 30.4 .491 .256 .770 1.20 2.60 3.80 8.6 1.38 .16 2.60 1.90 11.3
 92-93 LAC82 81 38.0 .486 .268 .803 1.60 3.20 4.70 8.8 1.66 .15 2.68 1.90 14.4
 93-94 LAC79 79 34.3 .452 .283 .791 1.40 3.10 4.40 8.6 1.52 .08 2.94 1.50 10.9
 94-95 IND82 67 29.3 .422 .310 .778 .90 2.80 3.70 7.5 1.28 .20 2.56 1.80 7.6
 95-96 IND81 81 32.6 .473 .430 .785 .80 3.00 3.80 7.8 1.23 .06 2.48 1.90 10.0
 96-97 DEN52 52 38.5 .425 .397 .801 1.40 3.80 5.20 12.3 .98 .17 3.31 2.00 10.4
 96-97 IND30 30 35.1 .427 .316 .766 .70 3.50 4.10 9.8 1.53 .10 3.40 1.90 9.0
 96-97 --82 82 37.2 .426 .371 .789 1.10 3.70 4.80 11.4 1.18 .15 3.34 2.00 9.9
 97-98 IND82 82 29.4 .416 .314 .761 .80 3.10 3.90 8.7 1.02 .02 2.12 1.60 8.3
 98-99 IND49 49 28.2 .419 .311 .823 .70 3.10 3.80 7.9 .86 .06 2.02 1.20 7.6
 99-00 IND81 81 27.0 .432 .403 .806 .80 2.90 3.70 8.0 .94 .12 2.15 1.40 8.1
 00-01 TOR54 54 33.4 .422 .345 .842 .80 2.60 3.40 9.2 1.17 .13 2.17 1.50 8.5
 00-01 NYK29 28 27.1 .411 .310 .529 .70 3.40 4.10 5.6 .72 .00 2.00 1.90 5.9
 00-01 --83 82 31.2 .419 .338 .785 .80 2.90 3.70 8.0 1.01 .08 2.11 1.70 7.6
 01-02 NYK82 82 28.9 .439 .405 .791 .70 3.10 3.80 7.4 .90 .01 1.83 2.00 8.4
 02-03 UTA82 0 17.9 .398 .284 .763 .40 1.70 2.10 4.6 .59 .04 1.85 1.10 4.7
 03-04 HOU42 3 13.7 .340 .171 .718 .20 1.40 1.70 2.8 .40 .02 1.26 1.00 2.5

College:

 1984 stjohns    30  855   61  106 53   77   59  108  18   8  80  56  175  58      69 29  2.0  3.6  5.8|
 1985 stjohns    35  601   57  101 66   91   44  109  25   4  54  44  180  56      73 17  1.3  3.1  5.1|
 1986 stjohns    36 1340  151  316 105  142  125  328  68   8  84  60  407  48      74 37  3.5  9.1 11.3|
 1987 stjohns    30 1184  196  389  49 117  125  155  110  193  61   6  81  59  566  50  42  81 39  3.7  6.4 18.9

Marcus Williams is no Mark Jackson. No comparison.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 20-10-2006 5:25 PM]