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Just to get the ball rolling, what is your scouting analysis of Stevie Francis
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Bippity10
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9/13/2006  5:42 PM
I would like to get an honest analysis from people on some of the players on this team. Not a cushy, analysis based on potential. I don't want to hear potential or "what he is going to do". But based on his current career what do you think his strengths and weaknesses are. I was going to start with Marbs but I didn't want to start a riot. Break it down this way:

Strengths: list of current strengths. Be detailed about individual skills and overall abilities
Weaknesses: Same as above

Okay start with Steve Francis

I would start but I'm assuming everything I say will be considered a lie :)

[Edited by - bippity10 on 09-13-2006 5:43 PM]
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TMS
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9/13/2006  5:47 PM
Franchise

strengths: dribble penetration, defensive rebounding, scoring in the halfcourt running off pick & rolls & screens & drawing fouls in the lane

weaknesses: on ball defense, team defense, seeing the floor, orchestrating the offense, 3 point shooting
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Allanfan20
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9/13/2006  6:11 PM
Strengths: Penetrates great, very athletic, rebounding, can get hot with his shooting, great ball handler, can hit some clutch shots.

Weaknesses: Attitude, throws a ton of bad passes, a very very streaky shooter and as Clyde would say "Shoots on the V Line.", short for a SG which is what his position really is, turns the ball over which is a result of his poor passing, porious defense.
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Allanfan20
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9/13/2006  6:25 PM
Heck, I'll even do Marbury right now:

Strengths: Very underrated shooter particularly from mid range. Penetrates just as good as anyone in the league b/c he's so fast and so built like a pit bull. Spots the open man extremely well. Can play fast or slow. Can guard bigger strong guards and frequently does well against them. Plays hard always on the offense. Great pick and roll player.

Weaknesses: While he's a good passer, he's more like a passing shooting guard as he's still got weaknesses. Not a great post feeder cause he's hesitant. Doesn't trust his teammates. Prima donaish, plays poor defense against quick guards and frequently just doesn't seem to care on the defensive end. Not a good rebounding guard and not a good leader consistently.
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arkrud
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9/13/2006  6:27 PM
Strengths:Star attitude and abilities
Weaknesses:The star years are over. No abilities to play like a role team player

Must change his game dramaticsally to get some value. Teams including Knicks will look at how he will make it. If this process will go slow can be a disaster for him and for the Knicks
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arkrud
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9/13/2006  6:29 PM
Posted by arkrud:

Strengths:Star attitude and abilities
Weaknesses:The star years are over. No abilities to play like a role team player

Must change his game dramaticsally to get some value. Teams including Knicks will look at how he will make it. If this process will go slow can be a disaster for him and for the Knicks

Not surprisenly the Marbs s kind o same story but he still has a chance to be a star.
All in his hands.
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wsdm
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9/13/2006  7:13 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Heck, I'll even do Marbury right now:

Strengths: Very underrated shooter particularly from mid range. Penetrates just as good as anyone in the league b/c he's so fast and so built like a pit bull. Spots the open man extremely well. Can play fast or slow. Can guard bigger strong guards and frequently does well against them. Plays hard always on the offense. Great pick and roll player.

Weaknesses: While he's a good passer, he's more like a passing shooting guard as he's still got weaknesses. Not a great post feeder cause he's hesitant. Doesn't trust his teammates. Prima donaish, plays poor defense against quick guards and frequently just doesn't seem to care on the defensive end. Not a good rebounding guard and not a good leader consistently.

I think Marbury's rebounding is fine for a PG but agree with everything else you said.
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NotFrye
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9/13/2006  8:21 PM
Pros:
-Dribble penetration
-can score from anywhere on the floor
-above average passing

Cons:
-No true position
-Has to guard the other team's smallest player
-Needs to run with a 6'6" + pg or sg to avoid getting torched by opposing 2 guards
-Can score from anywhere on the floor, but needs lots of shots to do it -->mediocre fg %, 3pt fg%- basically an iverson wannabe, but not as good
-needs to dominate the ball to be effective
-Attitude sucks
-Height- sg in a pg's body (penetrate and kick, penetrate and kick instead of penetrate and finish)
-Gets away with an assload of traveling violations while doing his "And 1" crossovers
-Questionable bball IQ
-Bad track record
EnySpree
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9/13/2006  9:49 PM
Guys talk a lot of smack about both players yet all agree on the scouting report.

How bout curry?

Strengths: unstoppable on the move or on a put back situation. Very quick for his size. Decent post defender simply because he is so big.

Weakness:
Though he has great size he is not very strong. Terrible rebounder. Weak shot blocker.terrible help defender. Can't pass out of the post. Has no go to move in the post. Takes a whole season to get in real game shape. Double teams rattle him. I dunno if he can shoot cuz I never seen him take an outside jumper. The window for potential is quickly closing in on him.
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martin
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9/13/2006  10:23 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Guys talk a lot of smack about both players yet all agree on the scouting report.

How bout curry?

Strengths: unstoppable on the move or on a put back situation. Very quick for his size. Decent post defender simply because he is so big.

Weakness:
Though he has great size he is not very strong. Terrible rebounder. Weak shot blocker.terrible help defender. Can't pass out of the post. Has no go to move in the post. Takes a whole season to get in real game shape. Double teams rattle him. I dunno if he can shoot cuz I never seen him take an outside jumper. The window for potential is quickly closing in on him.

Decent post defender? Are we talking about the same guy? Curry?
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arkrud
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9/13/2006  10:31 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Guys talk a lot of smack about both players yet all agree on the scouting report.

How bout curry?

Strengths: unstoppable on the move or on a put back situation. Very quick for his size. Decent post defender simply because he is so big.

Weakness:
Though he has great size he is not very strong. Terrible rebounder. Weak shot blocker.terrible help defender. Can't pass out of the post. Has no go to move in the post. Takes a whole season to get in real game shape. Double teams rattle him. I dunno if he can shoot cuz I never seen him take an outside jumper. The window for potential is quickly closing in on him.

strenght: He is Shaq-like - size and speed
Weekness: He is not Shaq-like - Lazy and low bball IQ

Shaq is Supperhero - Curry is not
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EnySpree
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9/14/2006  5:06 AM
I did say he was a decent post defender just because he was big. Of course he has no clue what he is doing. Its just hard to move or go around that big mofo. I find that to be true.
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VDesai
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9/14/2006  8:59 AM
Strengths: Extremely strong, athletic and quick guard that is well built for the PG position. Can penetrate and finish strong and break down most players in the NBA with his dribble. One of the best finishers pound for pound in the NBA. Has the vision to set up teammates and will draw defenders into the lane to kick out to open shooters. Has the ability to hit from the outside, with range all the way out to 3pt land (though is inconsistent). Will go to the free throw line a lot and hit at an 80% clip. Agressive overall defender who will go for steals and get into passing lanes. Extremely high energy player who will hustle for the loose ball and go up and down the court at top speed depending on the pace of the game. Abnormally great rebounder for a guard his size due to his strength, leaping ability and fearlessness. Capable of bringing down a triple-double on any given night, and capable of scoring 40+ on any give night.

Weaknesses: Not a true point guard. Extremely turnover prone (one of the most turnover prone players in the NBA) and has a shooter/scorers mentality. As a shooting guard, is undersized as far as height (though his strength and leaping ability keep him from being a complete liability). Unusual overall shooting arc causes him to be an extremely inconsistent shooter. Can be prone to poor shot selection and take too many low percentage shots. Poor overall mentality. A player that will sulk when not the no.1 or no.2 option and has really turned down his game a notch now that he has not been in the ideal situation for him. Is capable of doing a much better job of getting his teammates involved, but will have periods of selfishness on the court. Despite his overall energy level, will have lapses on defense when he's not paying attention or seems disinterested. As an SG, will always have trouble matching up.

Bottom Line: Is capable of being one of the most exciting players to watch in the NBA and can help a team in many facets of the game. Bad attitude, selfishness and being 6'3 have stopped him from being one the NBA's best.

[Edited by - VDesai on 09-14-2006 09:03 AM]
VDesai
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9/14/2006  9:04 AM
BTW, shouldn't we keep this thread just to Francis (especially if Bippity wants to start other threads on other players). Don't want to stray too far off topic...
Bippity10
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9/14/2006  9:44 AM
Okay you bast-ards. EnySpree and Allanfan you are ruining the post. You are ruining it. This post is about Stevie Francis. If you want to talk about another player start a new post so we can keep it all organized. Geez louise.

Anyway here is my take on Steve Francis

StrengthsGreat body strength. Tough as nails. Can take a hit and still complete the shot. Extremely athletic and one of the league's best finishers. Great dribble penetration and impossible to guard one on one. Off the ball defense is above average. Gets in the passing lanes and when motivated can create havoc. Streaky in a good way. When he is on a roll he is tough to stop. I feel he is the best rebounding guard in the league and very versatile.

WeaknessesAttitude, attitude, attitude. I think his past coach's have done him a disservice. He has all-NBA talent but has not developed an all-NBA head. WAs handed a starting job and the keys to the franchise because of his potential not because of results. Should have started as a sixth man. This has resulted in a player that does not feel he needs to adapt to any kind of role because he feels he is the franchise everywhere. He is his own worst enemy. needs things done his way in order to contibute and if it is not he pouts instead of adapting. On the skills side lacks a consistent jumper, poor decision maker, I didn't pay much attentio to his D in the past, but last year he simply gave no effort at all on the defensive end. Possible confidence issue as well. It seems that the past few years since he lost Mobley and has been exposed have really affected his confidence. Not the same player and seems to blame others for this.

I think at this point Stevie is best suited for a scoring role on a team that needs a guy to just score. Most useful as an unstoppable 6th man. As a point guard he really does not know how to run an offense.
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Bippity10
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9/14/2006  9:46 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Strengths: Extremely strong, athletic and quick guard that is well built for the PG position. Can penetrate and finish strong and break down most players in the NBA with his dribble. One of the best finishers pound for pound in the NBA. Has the vision to set up teammates and will draw defenders into the lane to kick out to open shooters. Has the ability to hit from the outside, with range all the way out to 3pt land (though is inconsistent). Will go to the free throw line a lot and hit at an 80% clip. Agressive overall defender who will go for steals and get into passing lanes. Extremely high energy player who will hustle for the loose ball and go up and down the court at top speed depending on the pace of the game. Abnormally great rebounder for a guard his size due to his strength, leaping ability and fearlessness. Capable of bringing down a triple-double on any given night, and capable of scoring 40+ on any give night.

Weaknesses: Not a true point guard. Extremely turnover prone (one of the most turnover prone players in the NBA) and has a shooter/scorers mentality. As a shooting guard, is undersized as far as height (though his strength and leaping ability keep him from being a complete liability). Unusual overall shooting arc causes him to be an extremely inconsistent shooter. Can be prone to poor shot selection and take too many low percentage shots. Poor overall mentality. A player that will sulk when not the no.1 or no.2 option and has really turned down his game a notch now that he has not been in the ideal situation for him. Is capable of doing a much better job of getting his teammates involved, but will have periods of selfishness on the court. Despite his overall energy level, will have lapses on defense when he's not paying attention or seems disinterested. As an SG, will always have trouble matching up.

Bottom Line: Is capable of being one of the most exciting players to watch in the NBA and can help a team in many facets of the game. Bad attitude, selfishness and being 6'3 have stopped him from being one the NBA's best.

[Edited by - VDesai on 09-14-2006 09:03 AM]

wow that's almost identical to mine only written better. Can I delete mine and then copy and paste yours.
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jazz74
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9/14/2006  10:08 AM
yeah, the analysis for both guards are dead on. so i will do crawford:

strengths: a quick guard with above average ball handling skills. capable of setting up teammates. great range and relishes pressure. deadly in the last seconds of a game. underrated athleticism. can finish well around the basket.

weakness: poor shot selection and streaky shooting. prone to hold the ball too long in offensive sets. streaky as they come. subpar defense though last year he has slightly improved. does not drive as much as he should considering that he can finish around the basket and has the frame to do so. makes sloppy passes and forces the issue on many occasion.
Bippity10
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9/14/2006  10:11 AM
Oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This post is about Steve Francis. Stop doing other players. Start a new post if you want to do Crawford. Don't make Bip choke a brother.
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jazz74
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9/14/2006  10:27 AM
Marbury

strength: a deceptively quick guard who has the handle and speed to take it to the rim against anybody one on one. one of the strongest point guards in the nba that will alow him to finish plays when he is bumped in the lane. good court vision in the half court set and one of the best "pick and roll" point guards in the league. prototypical half court pg. good range and can avg. in the mid twenties. a statistic freak, will avg. this season 20ppg and 8 apg this season. on most nights a defensive nightmare for other teams. better defender than given credit for and will get steals or force turnovers. capable of drawing in the defense to open opportunities for everyone else. good rebouder for a guard.

weakness: poor leadership skills. pouts if things are not going his way. struggles leading an open floor offense. can make head scratching decisions with the ball. easily disinterested. huge ego that will clash with other players. lockerroom demeanor is awful and can ruin team chemistry. wants to do too much and loses trust in teammates more often. inconsistent defensively. streaky shooter who needs the balls in his hands all of the time ( so he thinks).

Curry

strengths: a true center in the lineup, capable of being an offensive juggernaut in the paint. strength and size can make him unstoppable when catching the ball in the paint. strong and great footwork for his size. good post moves that will get better in time. 23 and still learning the position so he will get better. potential of being a top ten center for years.

weakness: defense. still has poor timing and gets into foul trouble very easily. can't pass well out of the paint and will develop turnovers because of it. below average rebounder for his size. has a laid back attitude which can cause him to not be as aggressive as he should be in key situations. weight fluctuates. impressionable on a team with dominant personalities that are currently negative.
jazz74
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9/14/2006  10:31 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This post is about Steve Francis. Stop doing other players. Start a new post if you want to do Crawford. Don't make Bip choke a brother.

sorry bip. other people were doing other players so i kind of jumped on the bandwagon doing crawford, curry and marbury. my bad.
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Just to get the ball rolling, what is your scouting analysis of Stevie Francis
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