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steph, Francis and craw show
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EnySpree
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8/8/2006  3:54 PM
That's what it is going to be fellas.

Curry is better on the move, catching and finishing. Frye is also more effective on the move with his jumpshot being the major threat in his game. Jefferies is gonna eat well also on offense cuz he too is great when he is on the move.

Marbs, craw, and Francis live with the ball in their hands and are some of the best creators in the world.

The knicks are weak on the outside, meaning three point shooting but have guys that can keep things at least honest.

isiah described the 6'11" front court as a staple. He said jefferies was a staple actually but frye and curry aint going no where so.....

This is it. We have our team and personality already.

That hasn't been established for a long time with the knicks.

Guys like q-rich, malik, jalen, Jerome? These guys are gonna have to get used to competition. The future is kinda set for the time being.

What you think of that?
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purple012870
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8/8/2006  4:02 PM
Not exactly Hubie Brown w/ that analysis....but it was positive & that in itself made it refreshing.
oohah
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8/8/2006  4:12 PM
Not exactly Hubie Brown w/ that analysis....

You mean he did not forget the players names?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
EnySpree
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8/8/2006  5:32 PM
Posted by oohah:
Not exactly Hubie Brown w/ that analysis....

You mean he did not forget the players names?

oohah

That's what I was thinking when I saw that, lol.

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OasisBU
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8/8/2006  7:10 PM
Eny....I think you are right that its going to be Craw, Steph, and Francis - with Jeffries, Frye, and Curry up front - but I dont think this team has established an attitude yet. They need to let their play do the talking and not their mouths. They still have a lot of making up to do after last season. Sure Brown was a cancer - I didnt even like him and I am glad he is gone. But the players still have a lot to make up for.

And why are you so down on Q? He could actually be an asset if he is healthy.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
EnySpree
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8/9/2006  3:26 AM
I'm not down on Q. I just wrote him out of the plans. The guy was terrible last year. He couldn't make an open jumper to save his life. He rebounds well but the reason he does is that he forgets about his man and leaves them open for jumpshots, lol.

I love Q's game before he became a knick. He was poppin a lot of **** that he was gonna be himself again and post up and score inside. I thought he would but he didn't. I would trade him for nothing if I could. If he got back to normal on another team so be it. If the dude does stay a knick and has a bounce back year I will be lovin it. Right now he proved that he is the worst shooting guard in the league.

As far as letting the guys prove what they can do? Yeah I'm with that, but its crystal clear now what to expect. The blueprint is in place. It hasn't been that way in years.
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fishmike
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8/9/2006  7:15 AM
show me a team in the NBA built around a couple of perimeter guys that dominate the ball like Francis and Marbury thats been successfull. I cant think of one... anyone?
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tomverve
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8/9/2006  8:46 AM
Posted by fishmike:

show me a team in the NBA built around a couple of perimeter guys that dominate the ball like Francis and Marbury thats been successfull. I cant think of one... anyone?


Last season Marbury had a usage rate of 21.9 and Francis's was 19.6. So, let's say we're looking for successful teams that had two primary backcourt/wing players adding up to a usage rate of at least 40. I won't try to build an exhaustive list, but here are a few:

2001 Sixers: 56-26 (Iverson 33.5, Snow 17.4)
2006 Lakers: 45-37 (Kobe 35.3, Odom 17.6)
2001 Bucks: 52-30 (Robinson 26.7, Cassell 24.7, Allen 22.9)
2006 Nets: 49-33 (Carter 29.3, Kidd 19.4)
2005 Wizards: 45-37 (Arenas 26.0, Hughes 25.3)
2004 Pistons: 54-28 (Hamilton 24.1, Billups 22.8)
2003 Hornets: 47-35 (Davis 23.7, Wesley 20.1)
1996 Bulls: 72-10 (Jordan 31.9, Pippen 24.4)
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VDesai
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8/9/2006  8:52 AM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by fishmike:

show me a team in the NBA built around a couple of perimeter guys that dominate the ball like Francis and Marbury thats been successfull. I cant think of one... anyone?


Last season Marbury had a usage rate of 21.9 and Francis's was 19.6. So, let's say we're looking for successful teams that had two primary backcourt/wing players adding up to a usage rate of at least 40. I won't try to build an exhaustive list, but here are a few:

2001 Sixers: 56-26 (Iverson 33.5, Snow 17.4)
2006 Lakers: 45-37 (Kobe 35.3, Odom 17.6)
2001 Bucks: 52-30 (Robinson 26.7, Cassell 24.7, Allen 22.9)
2006 Nets: 49-33 (Carter 29.3, Kidd 19.4)
2005 Wizards: 45-37 (Arenas 26.0, Hughes 25.3)
2004 Pistons: 54-28 (Hamilton 24.1, Billups 22.8)
2003 Hornets: 47-35 (Davis 23.7, Wesley 20.1)
1996 Bulls: 72-10 (Jordan 31.9, Pippen 24.4)

Where does that usage rate for Francis stand vs. the rest of his career? Hard to compare what he's done with the Magic and Knicks vs. what he did with the Rockets. He hasn't really been trying recently.

IMO, If Marbury and Francis are playing at their optimal levels, they can dominate the ball all they like. As it stands, I don't want to see them at odds for who's going to take the larger share of the ball...in the most successful of the situations that tomverve listed above, it was pretty clear who was the dominant player of the pair and who would take a back seat.
tomverve
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8/9/2006  8:58 AM
Since the 99/00 season, Marbury's average usage rate has been 26.1 and Francis's has been 24.5. Clearly they both scaled their games back a lot last season under Larry Brown. I'd expect both of their rates to go up next season, but probably not as high as their 2000-2006 averages. Either way, their combined usage rate should be comparable to the other player pairs listed above. So it's not impossible to have a successful team when you have a hefty chunk of your offense going through your backcourt.
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rvhoss
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8/9/2006  9:02 AM
yeah, last year was some kind of sick knick joke...

if it happens again, I'm leaving, I'm packing my bags and gone.
If it happens again, there'll be no turning back and I won't say I told you so.
I won't say I told you so.
all kool aid all the time.
UKDad
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8/9/2006  9:10 AM
Only problem - if Starbury brings the ball upcourt as quickly as he did last year, there will be a set defence waiting. Now, how do you run and gun? Watched the China v. US game the other night and the harassment and quickness of the US team just overwhelmed China. Gotta be more of that with the Knicks.
The Old Man of UK...
rvhoss
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8/9/2006  9:24 AM
Posted by UKDad:

Only problem - if Starbury brings the ball upcourt as quickly as he did last year, there will be a set defence waiting. Now, how do you run and gun? Watched the China v. US game the other night and the harassment and quickness of the US team just overwhelmed China. Gotta be more of that with the Knicks.

he won't...the offense is predicated on bringing the ball up asap.

LB's was predicated on walking it up and getting into a specific set offense (that if the other team studied any film of FB would know exactly what was coming).

It's all in the summer league footage...or, take a look at this...
http://mms://msgvox2.cv.net/msgnetwork.com/07_2006/nyk_isiah_prev_070706.asf
or
http://msgvox2.cv.net/ramgen/msgnetwork.com/07_2006/nyk_summerleague_071306.rm

or listen to the man himself explain it:
http://mms://msgvox2.cv.net/msgnetwork.com/07_2006/nyk_isiah_clydegus_sot_071306.asf
http://msgvox2.cv.net/ramgen/msgnetwork.com/07_2006/nyk_isiah_clydegus_sot_071306.rm

http://www.msgnetwork.com/knicks_summerleague.jsp
all kool aid all the time.
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steph, Francis and craw show
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