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We will see if IT has faith in Lee and Frye at the four
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King1
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8/7/2006  3:28 PM
I think you will see no more trades in the frontcourt and Lee and Frye will split the 4 this season. You will also see Frye at the 5 for spot minutes, and Lee at the three for spot minutes. Can 2 2nd year players handle 48 minutes at the four. I think you will see 25 points and 12 rebounds from the 48 minutes if Lee and Frye get the bulk of the time.
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rvhoss
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8/7/2006  3:36 PM
I give some credit to Lee emerging in SL to the offense zeke implemented.

This will work well in the season.

last season Lee/Frye gave us 17 points and 10 rebounds in 40 minutes.

I see no reason with an increased role (no mot or mrose or adavis or jbutler) and support from the coach, 25/12 does not seem far fetched at all.

I definitely expect the rebounding numbers to go up.
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Bippity10
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8/7/2006  3:49 PM
I think this is the direction we need to go and one we are all hoping for. I'm curious to see how these guys respond this year. I think if David picks up his defense he is the perfect player for this current frontcourt. Of course we will have to patient with them but they are two guys I'm not worried about.
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MS
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8/7/2006  4:02 PM
Jow about to get things moving in the right direction, the sonics would like to go young and are not going to sign rashard lewis, if we have to give them a number one pick I would......

New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Jalen Rose
6-8 SG from Michigan
12.3 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 2.5 apg in 27.3 minutes
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
14.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.8 apg in 32.3 minutes
Nate Robinson
5-9 PG from Washington
9.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 21.4 minutes
Incoming
Rashard Lewis
6-10 SF from Alief Elsik (HS)
20.1 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 2.3 apg in 36.9 minutes
Danny Fortson
6-8 PF from Cincinnati
3.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 12.0 minutes
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
8.9 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 22.6 minutes
Noel Felix
6-9 SF from Fresno State
1.5 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.2 apg in 6.8 minutes
Change in team outlook: -1.6 ppg, +3.5 rpg, and -1.6 apg.


Seattle Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Rashard Lewis
6-10 SF from Alief Elsik (HS)
20.1 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 2.3 apg in 36.9 minutes
Danny Fortson
6-8 PF from Cincinnati
3.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 12.0 minutes
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
8.9 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 22.6 minutes
Noel Felix
6-9 SF from Fresno State
1.5 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.2 apg in 6.8 minutes
Incoming
Jalen Rose
6-8 SG from Michigan
12.3 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 2.5 apg in 27.3 minutes
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
14.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.8 apg in 32.3 minutes
Nate Robinson
5-9 PG from Washington
9.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 21.4 minutes
Change in team outlook: +1.6 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and +1.6 apg.

Marbury/Watson
Francis/Q
Lewis/Jefferies/Balkman (one of the best in the nba)
Frye/Lee
Curry/Fortson

I know thats a stretch but crawford and nate don't seem like compenants to having a winning team.
fishmike
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8/7/2006  4:21 PM
seeing is believing. I said at one point I would start Nate and Marbury along w/ Jeffries(3), Lee(4) and Curry(5) to start with a tougher line up, then follow with Frye, Crawford and Francis as the 2nd unit thats more open and scoring oriented. There's about 11 guys on the this team that think they are entitled to 35 minutes because they are one the roster.

Seeing is believing though. King... I hopes you are right man... really do.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MS
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8/7/2006  4:31 PM
New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Quentin Richardson
6-6 SG from DePaul
8.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.2 minutes
Jerome James
7-1 C from Florida A&M
3.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.0 minutes
Nate Robinson
5-9 PG from Washington
9.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 21.4 minutes
Incoming
Kenyon Martin
6-9 PF from Cincinnati
12.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: -7.6 ppg, -2.2 rpg, and -2.5 apg.


New York Trade Breakdown
Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.


Denver Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Kenyon Martin
6-9 PF from Cincinnati
12.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.6 minutes
Incoming
Quentin Richardson
6-6 SG from DePaul
8.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.2 minutes
Jerome James
7-1 C from Florida A&M
3.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.0 minutes
Nate Robinson
5-9 PG from Washington
9.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 21.4 minutes
Change in team outlook: +7.6 ppg, +2.2 rpg, and +2.5 apg.


Successful Scenario
Due to New York and Denver being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. New York and Denver had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

I would do that move as well either one

Marbury/Crawford
Francis/Jefferies
Rose/Balkman
Martin/Lee
Curry/Frye

Then we could let Rose expire/with Mo Taylor, and they come off the books with JYD, Shandon, Houston.....

Then next year

Marbury/Collins
Francis/Crawford
Jefferies/Balkman
Frye/Martin
Curry/Lee
JohnWallace44
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8/7/2006  11:09 PM
I really believe that this is the way that the minutes will break down short of injury;

C - Starter - CURRY - (28) - Sub - JJ - (5)
PF - Starter - FRYE - (38) - Sub - Lee - (20)
F - Starter - J20 - (32) - Sub - B-MAN - (10)
G - Starter - CRAW - (32) - Sub - Q - (17)
PG - Starter - MARBS - (38) - Sub - NATE - (20)

There will be plenty of time, 15 minutes in each game to be exact, that Frye will play the center and J20 will slide down to the PF spot. He didn't play the pivot in the summer league for giggles. He didn't bulk up that much to play outside. Lee, Nate and Q will be the primary bench players with Balkman showing up for JYD type inspiring minutes.

I know, I know, Francis is missing. I really don't see him playing or even being on this team to be honest. Craw is just flat better than him if what I was watching last year was reality.

This is a real rotation, not an LB mess. There is no reason to play Taylor, or Malik. Jalen can be valuable in specific situations late in the game if we need 3's. Collins imho is horrible.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Bippity10
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8/8/2006  9:03 AM
How do you think Taylor and malik and Jalen and Francis will react to not getting minutes and do you think it could affect us? Number two did they lengthen the games? You have 58 minutes for our pg's.
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TemujinKnick
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8/8/2006  9:28 AM
He has Q picking up minutes at the 3, Nate or Marbs picking up minutes at the 2, and Frye adding to his at the 5. The minutes work. The lineup doesn't. Francis needs to be played or traded. Same with Q. I say trade them. MoT and JRose can whine all they want, but they are riding the pine unless there is an injury or an amazing trade that frees up roster spots. Open roster spots should go to 10-day contracts until we find projects worth extending for the full year. No long term commitments on the IR.
Bippity10
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8/8/2006  9:32 AM
We keep saying these guys are picking up minutes but not addressign how many. I do agree that Francis or someone like Francis needs to go. There are too many guys for not enough minutes. If these guys handle it then fine that leaves us in good shape. But I don't believe that Nate or Francis or Q or Jalen are going to accept riding the pine or playing 16-20 minutes a game. Or getting extended minutes only when they are hot. And frankly they are all good enough to deserve more and have a valid gripe. I just see the potential for this to hurt us this year. Once 4 or 5 players have a gripe against a lame duck coach that can create immense issues. Just somehtign to think about. Maybe players respond positively, but the possibility for negativity is there. It's not tha teasy to juggle minutes when everyone is capable.

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fishmike
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8/8/2006  11:38 AM
I'm sure Rose wont mind sitting in a contract year.. same with Mo T. Francis is a good team guy also.. cant see any distractions comings up with this.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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8/8/2006  12:02 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I'm sure Rose wont mind sitting in a contract year.. same with Mo T. Francis is a good team guy also.. cant see any distractions comings up with this.

Well, first of all Francis is probably starting. And Isiah will probably make eye contact with Steve and talk to him. So he's three up on Larry Brown in that department.

Jalen and Mo are probably trade fodder. but we might need Jalen's outside shooting more than anyone (including me) wants to admit.
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Bippity10
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8/8/2006  12:27 PM
We do need his outside shooting but we aren't concerned with building a team to win the most games this year(at least we shouldn't be). We should be concerned with building a team. One of the aspects of building a team is fostering a team atmosphere free of the circus that was last year. Two or three year circus becomes a habit. We'd love to keep Jalen but with the direction we are going he is one of the one's that probably needs to go. As well as someone in the backcourt.

We are all in denial if we think that Marbs and Francis are going to accept anything less than 35 minutes for an extended period of time. Maybe 33 minutes because they love isiah so much. But if they are hot they are looking at 40 minutes each possibly. Not a lot of time 4 four guys on the bench that can all play. That leaves about 16-30 minutes for Nate, Jamal, Q, Jalen. We keep saying well just bench Q and Jalen because that's what we want. Or just bench MoT and Malik because that's obvious. And I agree it probably is. But we aren't taking into account what the players who have all played 20-35 minutes feel about this reduction in time. That's what's important. Just something to think about and a potential issue that I'm sure Isiah is addressing right now(hopefully).

It's great to have talent galore but as we are seeign with the Olympic team it's a better idea sometimes to take lesser players that fit a need than to have this all-star demand the ball backcourt we have. And remember I haven't even begun to address how we get the ball to Curry with all our guards playign one on one ball.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-08-2006 12:30 PM]
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Allanfan20
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8/8/2006  12:41 PM
I just don't see the Knicks trading Francis anytime soo though b/c not too many teams seem to want him anymore. The one guy we'd be able to get for him is the guy I want to stay away from so bad, and that's Kenyon Martin. And I just don't see how he even fulfills a need with those knees of his.

It is a big problem though that seems to be overlooked. There are plenty of guys on the team that we just call pushovers, but they really aren't! Jalen, Q, Malik, have all had a lot of NBA success and are proven enough that they can play AT LEAST 20 minutes in a game. Mo T isn't a pushover either! It's not like he's just gonna sit around and be happy with not playing.

Obviously the team we have isn't near a finished product, and we need to look foward to, like Bip said, finding a shooter, or maybe a shotblocker. That is unless of course, the Knicks think Curry and Frye can truely become a good shotblocking combo.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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8/8/2006  12:48 PM
It's not like Jalen and Malik are saying "OK, Jared is here, we can all sit down and chill as our contracts run out." No, they are good vets and will be fighting for those minutes and anyone thinks that Isiah has an easy job finding minutes for guys probably doesn't know a lot about basketball.

I kinda fear that in terms of rotations, we'll be seeing a lot of the same as last year. Maybe not 42 starting lineups, but maybe the same direction.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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8/8/2006  12:56 PM
It's alright if Isiah switches line-ups. He probably will have to go with the hot hand at times. Especially at the beginning as he tries to determine what the best line-ups are. I just hope the players don't use this time as an excuse to quit on Isiah
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fishmike
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8/8/2006  1:11 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:

I'm sure Rose wont mind sitting in a contract year.. same with Mo T. Francis is a good team guy also.. cant see any distractions comings up with this.

Well, first of all Francis is probably starting. And Isiah will probably make eye contact with Steve and talk to him. So he's three up on Larry Brown in that department.

Jalen and Mo are probably trade fodder. but we might need Jalen's outside shooting more than anyone (including me) wants to admit.
I agree... I'm sure we see a Franbury backcourt to start. Trading Jalen and Mo would be a big mistake IMO as expiring contracts never yield us anything expect headaches as we bail team after team out of their cap fodder. Just buyout Mo (there's no bigs on the FA market anyway) for a mill or so and send him on his way. Jalen can at least be a playmaker but I dont see the point with him.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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8/8/2006  1:37 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

How do you think Taylor and malik and Jalen and Francis will react to not getting minutes and do you think it could affect us? Number two did they lengthen the games? You have 58 minutes for our pg's.

the plan is to extend the games into double overtime... damn, do i have to spell everything out for you Bip?
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Bippity10
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8/8/2006  2:56 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bippity10:

How do you think Taylor and malik and Jalen and Francis will react to not getting minutes and do you think it could affect us? Number two did they lengthen the games? You have 58 minutes for our pg's.

the plan is to extend the games into double overtime... damn, do i have to spell everything out for you Bip?


my bad
I just hope that people will like me
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We will see if IT has faith in Lee and Frye at the four
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