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The East did not improve imho--teams were cheap and stagnant
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BRIGGS
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8/7/2006  2:29 PM
this is where the knicks may capitalize this year. they do have depth and talent level to be a player IF they can figure the cluster fck out. I like the three guard concept with the Knicks, especially since JC is the only guy that I feel can hit that mid range J besides Frye. I would NOT discount guys like Francis and Jalen Rose, Rose is in a contract year and Francis should thrive IF we play open court and IF we have other OFFENSIVE options from the wing to open things up for his driving ability----the one problem here is Marbury and Francis are very similar--so they need to move the ball more--they have to want to move the ball--thats where success comes from--the ability to get the ball up court and get up shots within 7-8 seconds per possession and getting the pace up and using our depth. We dont have the guys who can stop another team--we need to be the guys who can put up more points. that is our roster--so they have to find the right groups that mesh and have the Pitino-like second team ready for 18 minutes of hard play a a game.
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purple012870
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8/7/2006  2:34 PM
Agreed. I can't really come up with a team that really improved.
Bippity10
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8/7/2006  2:50 PM
It will come down to whether the guys accept their roles. With Francis and Marbs conceivably getting 35 minutes each. And JJ and Lee combining for about 35 minutes at the SF. That leaves 26 minutes to be divided between Q, Jalen, nate and Jamal(which leaves out Balkman). Someone is going to be left out. It will be important to see how they handle benchings. More importantly how they handle playing after the benchings. Same situation at the PF spot. This will go far in determining how we do IMO, independent of what other teams in the conference did.
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purple012870
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8/7/2006  2:59 PM
I don't see Lee playing significant minutes at SF. I do see him the primary backup at PF.

I have a projection of avg minutes in the David Lee losing minutes thread. Here it is:

Why is having a "logjam" significant? Isiah will have a set rotation, Isiah will have the most productive guy in the lineup, Isiah will not have some sort of dishonorable agenda like his predecessor. Right off the bat, I have to believe that MRose, Mo Taylor, Jerome James & QRich will play a fraction of the minutes they go last year. Why? Because Lee, Frye, Jefferies etc. are flat out better. Geez....you don't have to be Jerry West to see that MRose, Mo Taylor, Jerome James & QRich were borderline NBA calibur players last year. Isiah will see that. I foresee avg minutes as follows:
Guards:
Marbury - 38
Nate - 10
Craw, Francis - 24 (until somebody earns the greater allocation here)...I think it'll bee Craw

Forwards:
Frye - 26
Lee - 24
Jefferies - 24
JRose - 12
Balkman - 10

Center:
Curry - 30
Frye - 12
James - 6
rvhoss
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8/7/2006  3:32 PM
Good article touching exactly on Briggies point...
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AkRdSMrMSmXOZ5y_94So3Uu8vLYF?slug=sk-notebook080706&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

With the NBA draft in the rearview mirror and the brunt of free agency complete, several teams have to feel frustrated with their inability to make the offseason improvements they had hoped.

Teams like the Boston Celtics, Philadelphia 76ers and Golden State Warriors.

The Celtics, Sixers and Warriors all looked to make changes to their high-salaried, low-achieving rosters, but none of the teams have been able to make significant moves this summer.

That's two teams in the atlantic...and while everyone's darling the raptors 'appear' to have improved, I'd take our 'potential' over their's any day of the week...and that's not rose colored glasses chumps.

The real problem is going to be the Nets...I'm looking for the atlantic, letting everything else fall where they may.

I think zeke's offense can steal a bunch of games...not sure how it will do in the playoffs, but barring injury and lack of chemistry, I think we have the components to beat the wizards in the first round, but since it's looking like we are going to be the 8th seed, unless shaq AND wade go down, it's going to be ugly.

Milwaukee, nope.

Cleveland will return to the playoffs, no doubt about that, as will the bulls...Indiana is a toss of the coin IMHO.
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rvhoss
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8/7/2006  3:33 PM
btw...these were from the cuff...I anticipate much nitpicking of individual statements. Bring it on beyotches!
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Bippity10
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8/7/2006  3:36 PM
That's possible and realistic but do you think Steve Francis will be happy with 24 minutes? Jalen with 12? Mo with none. Nate with 10? Q with none? I'm sure Isiah will pick minutes based on who he sees as having earned them. But remember what's important is whether the players accept them. Do you think if the minutes are as you say that noone will complain? Or that guys like Q and Mo and Jalen will respond after sitting the pine and then being called upon? Whether you care or not it may affect our team. We unfortunately made it clear last year that if you aren't happy with your role and your minutes that it's okay to revolt and not play hard. Isiah will be a magic man and deserve an award for man of the year from time magazine if he can manage this.

To me talent level is obvious. But the approach to the game by the players will determine the season we had. Just like last year.
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franco12
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8/7/2006  3:42 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

this is where the knicks may capitalize this year. they do have depth and talent level to be a player IF they can figure the cluster fck out. I like the three guard concept with the Knicks, especially since JC is the only guy that I feel can hit that mid range J besides Frye. I would NOT discount guys like Francis and Jalen Rose, Rose is in a contract year and Francis should thrive IF we play open court and IF we have other OFFENSIVE options from the wing to open things up for his driving ability----the one problem here is Marbury and Francis are very similar--so they need to move the ball more--they have to want to move the ball--thats where success comes from--the ability to get the ball up court and get up shots within 7-8 seconds per possession and getting the pace up and using our depth. We dont have the guys who can stop another team--we need to be the guys who can put up more points. that is our roster--so they have to find the right groups that mesh and have the Pitino-like second team ready for 18 minutes of hard play a a game.


Briggs- thanks for the positive post- people have been killing you for being overly negative. Let me say thanks.

I agree and this is where you get funny because I think the team would be better off without Francis crowding things.

I'd almost rather start Marbury and Nate than Francis and Marbury- and I might myself prefer Francis and Nate over Marbury and Nate...
rvhoss
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8/7/2006  3:44 PM
would you really start nate over francis? Come on man...snap out of it.
Francis is a 20/7/7 player...that's just being plain silly.

And why is everyone leaving Qrich (one of our few defenders) out of the mix...what am i missing? JRose is a expiring contract, a "piece of meat" no way he's starting over Qrich, if Qrich is here, he's starting because he's got that type of DNA.
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purple012870
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8/7/2006  4:42 PM
QRich a good guy & was once a good player. He has a fraction of the athleticism he once had.
purple012870
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8/7/2006  4:45 PM
Why would we care if JRose was happy w/ 12 minutes & MoT was happy with none? There are only so many minutes to go around & Isiah isn't going to play 12 guys 20 minutes a night like LB. He's not going to start guys in thier home towns like LB (the most absurd thing I've ever seen a pro coach do).
rvhoss
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8/7/2006  4:52 PM
yeah, basically, every player has to come in at their best (bip would LOVE that) and THEN they will get playing time, but based on history and the fact that Jrose and MoT were two players that chose to ignore the gag order and speak on the firing of LB, there is no doubt in my mind that if they aren't coming back as all stars, then they will be Penny'd.

I mean, Jrose was already practicing for his career after basketball on the best damn sports show period. so, no way he stays, and MoT all but called isiah out saying expiring contracts were pieces of meat...well, if the shoe fits.

So, the fact that there are posters wondering how they are going to take shows that there is a little MC still left in them (think IBM and HAL )

I don't think the Heat are worried about how well Shandon Anderson will handle 6 MPG, or jason kapono will handle his 2 MPG.

Snap out of it, the new knicks began at SL and will emerge this year.

GULP GULP EFFING GULP!
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purple012870
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8/7/2006  5:01 PM
RV - I agree w/ a lot of what you're saying.

Re: JRose, MoT....if I was running the team, to me they are expensive insurance until I allow their contracts to expire. That probably applies more to MoT than Rose. But to me, the only time MoT would suit up in 06/07 is in the event of injury to others.
Bippity10
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8/7/2006  5:51 PM
Posted by purple012870:

Why would we care if JRose was happy w/ 12 minutes & MoT was happy with none? There are only so many minutes to go around & Isiah isn't going to play 12 guys 20 minutes a night like LB. He's not going to start guys in thier home towns like LB (the most absurd thing I've ever seen a pro coach do).


I dont' care anymore than you care. And individually it doesn't matter but you guys are ignoring the issue. According to the minutes you designated you have the following

Steve Francis 24 minutes
Mo taylor 0 minutes
Q Richardson 0 minutes
jalen Rose 12 minutes
Nate Robinson 10 minutes
Jamal crawford 24 minutes

All these guys have played well enough in their careers to earn 24-35 minutes. All expect to get those minutes. Now because you designated the minutes that you think they all should get you are under the impression that they see your point of view and will be accepting of the minutes because all fans can see that this is what they deserve. I can tell you that 6 of those guys are expecting significant time. Steve Francis has declared that he must be a starter or there will be problems. Jamal earned the starting position last year. That's 6 guys with the potential to cause problems over minutes. This is why role players are important.

Now it's not set in stone(although I'm sure the over reactors will insist that this is what I'm saying because they are immature). We may have a team of 15 guys that all accept their roles and are great teammates. We may only hear one or two complain which isn't an issue. But if y ou don't understand the potential for 6 guys to be biotching based on your minute allocations than maybe you don't understand the situation. 4, 5, 6 players is a revolt and may hurt us. That's why I say it is up to the players and their attitudes to determine how well we do(just like last year). This problem in terms of minutes is ineveitable. Guys WILL LOSE MINUTES UNDER ISIAH. We cannot avoid this. If they accept it and are good soldiers than we the fan win. If they don't it can hurt us. It's up to the players. I will reserve judgement until the season starts to see how they handle it.

the only thing that unnerves me is that we made it clear last year that it is okay to revolt and complain when you don't like your role or your minutes. Hopefully that is gone now that LB is gone.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-07-2006 5:53 PM]
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BRIGGS
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8/7/2006  5:51 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by BRIGGS:

this is where the knicks may capitalize this year. they do have depth and talent level to be a player IF they can figure the cluster fck out. I like the three guard concept with the Knicks, especially since JC is the only guy that I feel can hit that mid range J besides Frye. I would NOT discount guys like Francis and Jalen Rose, Rose is in a contract year and Francis should thrive IF we play open court and IF we have other OFFENSIVE options from the wing to open things up for his driving ability----the one problem here is Marbury and Francis are very similar--so they need to move the ball more--they have to want to move the ball--thats where success comes from--the ability to get the ball up court and get up shots within 7-8 seconds per possession and getting the pace up and using our depth. We dont have the guys who can stop another team--we need to be the guys who can put up more points. that is our roster--so they have to find the right groups that mesh and have the Pitino-like second team ready for 18 minutes of hard play a a game.


Briggs- thanks for the positive post- people have been killing you for being overly negative. Let me say thanks.

I agree and this is where you get funny because I think the team would be better off without Francis crowding things.

I'd almost rather start Marbury and Nate than Francis and Marbury- and I might myself prefer Francis and Nate over Marbury and Nate...

I try to keep it real. We are 5 years into scking horribly, and we havent scked conventionaly--weve tried to win. Were spending 2 dollars to other teams 1. If I put you in charge of the Knicks and handed you 500MM$, I bet almost ANYONE on this thread could put together a roster that would hit 23 or MANY more wins. I expect more from Isiah Thomas and I still disagree with a lot that he does, but I think the NY Knicks and Isiah may get off here from an Eastern Conference that took a big step back.
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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8/7/2006  5:56 PM
I think Indiana, Chicago, Charlotte, Toronto and Milwaukee will all be a lot better. As will Orlando. It will be a few years before the young talent in Charlotte, Toronto, Milwaukee and Orlando is really clicking and dominant - but those teams have a chance to be fantastic.

I'm assuming Indiana is getting either Bonzi or Al Harrington, they'll be tough and versatile. Also, Chicago clearly had a major off-season.

Miami will be tough, as much as Shaq slips, Wade will improve. Bron will improve, though his supporting cast is not impressive. I think Washington may slip a little. Detroit could slip to the point where they are chasing Cleveland and Chicago. New Jersey is another year older, but will still be tough. It'll be interesting to see Antoine Wright and Marcus Williams start making an impact there.

I don't know - I think the East is pretty tough. IF things break right, I think the Knicks could be looking at a 5 or 6 seed, more likely we'll be scrambling for a 7 or 8 seed with a bunch of teams like Washington, Milwaukee, Orlando, Philly, Boston and maybe Charlotte.

right now, I'd seed things:

1) Miami
2) Chicago
3) New Jersey
4) Detroit
5) Cleveland
then things open up more
6) Indiana
7) Milwaukee
8) New York
9) Washington
10) Orlando
11) Philly
12) Boston
13) Charlotte
14) Toronto
15) Atlanta

but I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised to see Charlotte or Toronto get a surprise performance from their youth. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Dwight Howard become just utterly dominant. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Sixers or Celtics finish dead last.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 07-08-2006 6:02 PM]
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crzymdups
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8/7/2006  5:58 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I try to keep it real. We are 5 years into scking horribly, and we havent scked conventionaly--weve tried to win. Were spending 2 dollars to other teams 1. If I put you in charge of the Knicks and handed you 500MM$, I bet almost ANYONE on this thread could put together a roster that would hit 23 or MANY more wins. I expect more from Isiah Thomas and I still disagree with a lot that he does, but I think the NY Knicks and Isiah may get off here from an Eastern Conference that took a big step back.

by the same token I don't think the Knicks were a conventional 23 win team, either. a lot of that was the power struggle between Larry and Isiah/Marbury. some of it was injury. some of it was 10 new players and a coach who didn't seem to think cohesion and consistency meant anything.
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crzymdups
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8/7/2006  6:05 PM
one other thing that could tilt the balance of power in the East a little is if a team like Cleveland or New Jersey were to get Chris Wilcox.

also, Bonzi Wells is still out there.
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jazz74
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8/7/2006  8:03 PM
Posted by purple012870:

Agreed. I can't really come up with a team that really improved.


uh, chicago?
purple012870
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8/7/2006  9:18 PM
Yes. Chicago. My bad. That said, I do think the Tyson Chandler deal was terrible.
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The East did not improve imho--teams were cheap and stagnant
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