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when players earn the respect of their teamates and their fans
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EnySpree
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8/7/2006  4:44 AM
This is not really OT cuz we can talk about the knicks like crazy in this thread.

I'm just looking at the Yankee and mets highlights. Starting withe the yankees. Why do people hate arod? Because he has yet to have his Yankee moment. Arod has been here for a while now. Not years but he has been here. Arod has never had that moment where the Yankee magic just christened him. I mean he did get the MVP last year but I don't remember him really dominating last year. Now check out bobby abreu. The dude is a yankee. Period. He has already came through and he is doing it. He is In the mix and he instantly has the respect of the fans and teamates. Melky is another one. That dude is a yankee. Even Craig Wilson has aleady had his yankee moment. For a while giambi was like arod but giambi has the swagger he had in Oakland back and is glistening in yankee magic. Bernie? Mariano? Jeter? Posada? Even Damon has had his yankee moment. Hideki from day one has been a yankee. I dunno about sheff.

The mets haven't had many guys to get that type of belonging moment. Beltran finally came on this year and is now a real met. David Wright and reyes? Yes those guys are mets and Omar made sure they stay that way.

In football the giants have tiki, and strayhand. Plaxico had a few moments last year. Football doesn't have too many examples.

Our knicks? No one on the curent roster, lol! Though I think David lee has the respect of the fans even though he hardly played enough as a rookie. We can just see he has it. He plays like a new Yorker and just represents us, just like starks, and oakley though he still has a lot to prove to get to that status.

What you guys think about all that?
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Anji
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8/7/2006  5:28 AM
Crawfords two game winners in a row. Nates 3pointer winner in OT. Lees game winner, Fryes 12-14 30 point game(I don't remember what it was but it was something like that). Crawford battling Gordon in 2OT in ChiTown(we lose but it was still a great game). Maruburys 3 game streak at the garden of 32/16/23pts & 10/11/15 ast. Curry abusing Howard in 3 out four meetings...... I have many personally, but If I were a yankee fan I won't get into that "real yankee" Zombie bashing either. I tend to think for myself.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
fishmike
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8/7/2006  7:21 AM
those moments only count in the context of winning. The people hating ARod stuff is way overblown. Most support him, especially at the stadium. Even when he struggles alot of what you hear is just a loud "awww man" but it sounds negative. Is he loved like some of the guys you mentioned? No.. but he's not maligned.

Homegrown guys always get an early lovefest. Guys that come in from other teams for big bucks gotta earn it more.

Those Knick moments mentioned were fun. I watch all the games and want to see fun winning basketball, and those were some good moments, but I dont care to much about 20 and 30 win teams. I follow, I watch, but I dont get juiced to sit down and watch.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
arkrud
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8/7/2006  11:10 AM
Lee and Nate are just coming to play for NYC fans and for the love to b-ball.
This is the way to greatness and belonginess to the team.
Not every player has a talent to make it to the great but without working hard and dedication to the team and fans no talent will help.
Fry, Craf, and Eddy can make it if they stay away from Me-first ways. It is bad that they have bad role models on this team and the organization which has no idea about winning basketball.
It is disturbing when people are ignorant to what they do, lazy and nonprofessional but still getting big $$ actually for nothing.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
rvhoss
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8/7/2006  11:27 AM
hoofah...man, the hate juices were flowing in that one.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-07-2006 11:33 AM]
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misterearl
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8/7/2006  11:32 AM
arkrud - I know you mean well but...

"Fry, Craf, and Eddy can make it if they stay away from Me-first ways."

Frye is as unselfish and team-oriented as they come. He comes from a great college program. Crawford is an intuitive basketball player who relies on improvisational skills that are the result of hard work and endless rehearsal. That is one of the reasons Isiah Thomas admired his skill-set. I think Zeke sees himself in Carwford. Jamal has courage enough to take the big shot.

>>It is bad that they have bad role models on this team and the organization which has no idea about winning basketball.

Simply silly. Bad role models? Who exactly are you talking about?

once a knick always a knick
rvhoss
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8/7/2006  11:33 AM
I think it usually takes a couple year's to be fully embraced by the new york faithful. a good point was made about home grown talent, if you are drafted by the team or got your big league start with the team, you tend to be embraced sooner.

Damon, he's more of cheering for the anti boston...giambi took awhile to come into his own, arod will find it this year...I can feel it.

He's dominated games, and I believe he has the most RBIs after the 7th inning of anyone int he majors right now (but I could be wrong about that).

Marbury is more in the beltran mold...while beltran seems surly because of his english (not talking to reporters) it's all marked by your play on the court.

I'm a fan, and when my teams suck, that's usually when I root for them more...I'm a big fan of the underdog...you know, rocky, etc.

Imagine if everyone in philadelphia was like "I don't care to much about fighters that aren't winning fights. I follow, I watch, but I dont get juiced to sit down and watch." and missed out on the golden rocky moment of almost unseating apollo, and eventually unseating them.

If they happened to come aboard and root hard and get "juiced" after they win, who needs them.

We have a name for them...they are called BANDWAGON FANS.

You know who you are.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-07-2006 11:33 AM]
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misterearl
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8/7/2006  11:37 AM
Eddy Curry gets unfairly lablled by a small group of posters a "dumb" or "lazy" and it becomes fact. Curry is neither. He is a young man learning his craft in a new context and with some physical issues that none of us understand the ramifiocations and risks of.

Then again, I would love for someone to tell him that he is lazy in person.

Fans are stupid
once a knick always a knick
rvhoss
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8/7/2006  11:43 AM
it was only because he was fat and he gets no calls from the refs, always seems to blow a dunk a week and manages to get pick pocketed when he's in the post.

All things that can be corrected.

QWoods could be branded the same thing with his reverse dunk miss and sponsoring dog fighting, but hey, LB likes him so he gets a pass.

That's right, I said LB.
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misterearl
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8/7/2006  11:48 AM
One Solution

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/07/sports/basketball/07hoops.html?ref=sports
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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8/7/2006  12:11 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I think it usually takes a couple year's to be fully embraced by the new york faithful. a good point was made about home grown talent, if you are drafted by the team or got your big league start with the team, you tend to be embraced sooner.

Damon, he's more of cheering for the anti boston...giambi took awhile to come into his own, arod will find it this year...I can feel it.

He's dominated games, and I believe he has the most RBIs after the 7th inning of anyone int he majors right now (but I could be wrong about that).

Marbury is more in the beltran mold...while beltran seems surly because of his english (not talking to reporters) it's all marked by your play on the court.

I'm a fan, and when my teams suck, that's usually when I root for them more...I'm a big fan of the underdog...you know, rocky, etc.

Imagine if everyone in philadelphia was like "I don't care to much about fighters that aren't winning fights. I follow, I watch, but I dont get juiced to sit down and watch." and missed out on the golden rocky moment of almost unseating apollo, and eventually unseating them.

If they happened to come aboard and root hard and get "juiced" after they win, who needs them.

We have a name for them...they are called BANDWAGON FANS.

You know who you are.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-07-2006 11:33 AM]

I think you have to really get over that. Fans don't hate their team, that is just your interpretation. Fans love their team, but when their team is bad they are critical. Just like when a player has a bad game. He doesn't hate himself but he is critical of his performance, analyzes what's wrong, doesn't makes excuses for himself and works on getting better. That's what the "knick haters" do. They love their team. They root for their team to the death just like you, or else they wouldn't be here. But when their team wins 23 games they are critical of their teams and look for ways to get better. The "knick haters" are actually the one's that expect more of their team and get their team to respond. Without the "knick haters" management would fill the seats with players worthy of the minimum, who could care less about winning or losing because they know the fans would be whooping and cheering and hollering anyway. It's the "knick haters" that get management to go, whoah we can't keep putting this nonsense on the court or else we are going to have a revolt. The "knick haters" are the one's that motivate the non self-motivated players to shape up or ship out. "Knick lovers" and "knick haters" are all fans. You just need to get over the over-reaction because in the end everyone here is a diehard fan or else they wouldn't be here.
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franco12
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8/7/2006  12:14 PM
what about KT?

To me, he had earned respect for what he was able to accomplish on the court with very few physical talents.

Yet, it seemed that many here wanted him gone- addition by substraction.
rvhoss
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8/7/2006  12:19 PM
there are no such things as haters and lovers, so bip, no need to type ANOTHER double paragraph detailing how they don't exist and you are not in any camp.

But there are bandwagon fans.
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TMS
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8/7/2006  12:46 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Why do people hate arod? Because he has yet to have his Yankee moment. Arod has been here for a while now. Not years but he has been here. Arod has never had that moment where the Yankee magic just christened him. I mean he did get the MVP last year but I don't remember him really dominating last year. Now check out bobby abreu. The dude is a yankee. Period. He has already came through and he is doing it. He is In the mix and he instantly has the respect of the fans and teamates. Melky is another one. That dude is a yankee. Even Craig Wilson has aleady had his yankee moment.

i'll give u Melky since he's a homegrown Yankee & came back from a hugely disappointing debut last year to make some impressive plays this year... but Bobby Abreu & Craig Wilson? when did these guys have their "Yankee moment"? they've been here a couple weeks now & you're already calling them true Yankees... meanwhile ARod's had some huge games in Yankee pinstripes, including a 3 HR - 10 RBI performance in 1 game, record breaking HR season from a righty hitter alltime & MVP season last year, & a huge performance in the ALDS vs. the Twins in '04, & yet he still hasn't had his "Yankee moment"... what are your guidelines you're using for ARod that differs for the new additions that haven't proven a thing yet in a Yankee uniform?
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arkrud
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8/7/2006  1:00 PM
Posted by misterearl:

arkrud - I know you mean well but...

"Fry, Craf, and Eddy can make it if they stay away from Me-first ways."

Frye is as unselfish and team-oriented as they come. He comes from a great college program. Crawford is an intuitive basketball player who relies on improvisational skills that are the result of hard work and endless rehearsal. That is one of the reasons Isiah Thomas admired his skill-set. I think Zeke sees himself in Carwford. Jamal has courage enough to take the big shot.

>>It is bad that they have bad role models on this team and the organization which has no idea about winning basketball.

Simply silly. Bad role models? Who exactly are you talking about?

OK
I am talking about Marbs, Francys, Mo, JJ, Roze. I am talking about Dolan, Mills, Isaiah.
It is too much for one organization to overcome...
This all people don't care about NYC fans even a bit and basketball in NY in general. They care mainly about their pockets and their egos.
I agree with you about Fry and Craf. I just pointed out that they should be careful in this environment.
Eddy is OK. He has a big potential health problem and this takes a tall of him physically and psychologically. I hope he will be OK and if he will feel that his life is in danger he should go and do something else in life. It's not worth it...


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bippity10
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8/7/2006  1:02 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

there are no such things as haters and lovers, so bip, no need to type ANOTHER double paragraph detailing how they don't exist and you are not in any camp.

But there are bandwagon fans.

Once again Hoss you expose yourself. I make points and back them up. You never supply any support for your statement. Instead of providing evidence of people not rooting for your team you call people names when they say things you don't like to hear. When they get you out of your happy place, you respond by name calling. I guess this is just your style.
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Bippity10
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8/7/2006  1:09 PM
My recent posts have been about the following. Supporting Isiah as coach. Supporting the signing of JJ. Defending Marbs when people blame him for everything. Defending LB when people blame him for everything. Criticizing Marbs for speaking up yet again. Criticizing the team for giving me half effort last year. Defending the signing of Balkman. Criticizing Isiah's record as GM, for getting us a billion dollars over the cap and not showing us wins. Criticizing fans for supporting excuses for quitting. Giving credit for Isiah's offseason. Blasting management for going through 7 coach's in 6 years and constantly going after one guy to save us. Supporting management for controlling spending this offseason and starting to build instead of going after hte next great star. Criticizing management for putting Isiah in position with the ultimatum to make a move to save his job. Crediting Isiah for showing patience this offseason and not making moves to save his job. Fearing that this may change if Isiah starts badly. Being ecstatic with the development of the young guys going into next season and giving credit to all the coach's even the one's that were fired. Agonizing over whether we can sign a coach if Isiah loses his job. Praying we get off to a good start so we don't have to worry about it.

YOU SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.
I just hope that people will like me
crzymdups
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8/7/2006  1:13 PM
Arod is judged harshly because people look at his salary and think he should never fail. People look at the Knicks and think the same thing - most of what you hear is that the Knicks should be better for how much money they're spending. I think that's why it's easier for folks to root for the young kids - salary never comes into it. Once a guy signs a big extension there are expectations - if they are paid like a star, people automatically start expecting a star player.
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TMS
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8/7/2006  1:17 PM
crzy, the Yankees are paying Abreu the same amount as they're paying ARod... just so you know.
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arkrud
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8/7/2006  1:20 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

My recent posts have been about the following. Supporting Isiah as coach. Supporting the signing of JJ. Defending Marbs when people blame him for everything. Defending LB when people blame him for everything. Criticizing Marbs for speaking up yet again. Criticizing the team for giving me half effort last year. Defending the signing of Balkman. Criticizing Isiah's record as GM, for getting us a billion dollars over the cap and not showing us wins. Criticizing fans for supporting excuses for quitting. Giving credit for Isiah's offseason. Blasting management for going through 7 coach's in 6 years and constantly going after one guy to save us. Supporting management for controlling spending this offseason and starting to build instead of going after hte next great star. Criticizing management for putting Isiah in position with the ultimatum to make a move to save his job. Crediting Isiah for showing patience this offseason and not making moves to save his job. Fearing that this may change if Isiah starts badly. Being ecstatic with the development of the young guys going into next season and giving credit to all the coach's even the one's that were fired. Agonizing over whether we can sign a coach if Isiah loses his job. Praying we get off to a good start so we don't have to worry about it.

YOU SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.
I am with you. The life is not Black and White. It's colorful. And this makes is so beautiful.
But if want to measure the team success we need to compare it with other teams in the business.
Then we can see what was done right and what wrong.
Just make a note what happened last 5 years with San Antonio, Dallas, Miami, Detroit... and NY, Portland, Atlanta... And what this organization was doing to make it happened.
I think it's making the picture crystal clear.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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