Posted by EnySpree:

What offense did the knicks run last year? 40 plus line ups? Guys getting dnp's coaches decision even after playing well? Benching of players for no reason and trashing them in the media?

I mean where the hell were you guys last year? I'm suck of reading it. larry sucked last year. The only argument you guys have to support him is that he is a hall of fame coach. What about what he did last year.

I had respect for Larry before last season. The truth is he did not coach to win this season. What his motives were we will never know buy the evidence shows from day one that something was up.

Isiah is not red holtzman, yet st least. The knicks have an offense and there seems to be a language on defense. The defense is sparking the offense if you saw summer league. The mentality if very different so far and that is a reflection of the head coach. Yes it is.

Enjoy what you see and let's have fun talking about the game and not all the other crap you guys like to talk about.

You made one fact in that whole post and that fact is kind of slanted. How many injuries did the Knicks starting lineup have last year? Injuries to Marbury, Curry, Frye, Q. The suspension of Tony Davis. The additions of Jalen Rose and Steve Francis, all of these are major factors in how many starting lineups that your team uses.

There were many lineup changes that had nothing to do with injuries. For those of you who cannot see that LB did a poor coaching job, that's fine. I like LB as a coach but I knew he wasn't the coach for this team as it was constructed. The Knicks will look and perform better this year, I believe that and it's not a comparison of coaches but of coaching styles. There may be a trade or two but basically this is our team. No, this team will not be a defensive juggernaut but they will do almost everything better than last season. This same group of guys will show that last year was not entirely their faults.

crzymdups, these are the facts that I've been dying to see ever since someone kept harping that the minutes were a plenty.

Someone please try to speak against this support.

props mdups.

I'm am still of the opinion that last year was one of those crazy year's that nobody can explain.

I'm holding out hope for Francis and Jerome James living up to their billing (for jj that's like 5/5/2 and 6 fouls), i think the real questionable player and everyone seems to forget about is...

Malik Rose.

Does he even have any shot of playing for this team?

Posted by crzymdups:

Please. The Knicks had 12 players start 10 games or more. 12 players. Throw in Jerome James starting 9 games and you have 13 guys who were yanked around. We didn't have a single player start 70 games, despite having 5 guys play in 70+ games.

Stephon Marbury missed 22 games which means someone had to take his spot in the starting lineup for that many games.
Eddy curry missed 10 games. Which mean again, a different player or players have to start in his place.
Quentin Richardson missed 27 games which means that players have to fill in his starts for 27 games.

Right there you have 59 games missed by starting players that have to be made up by different players.
Why is that such a big deal.

DLee only played in 67 games, despite not being injured all season - that means 15 healthy scratches. Nate Robinson only played in 72 games, despite not being injured all season - that means 10 healthy scrathes. That's 25 healthy scratches for guys who left their heart and soul out on the court every night.

Lets take a look at the previous players picked #30 in the draft and how many games they played and how many minutes a game they played their rookie year.
2005 - David Lee - 67G 14GS 16.9mpg
2004 - David Harrison - 43G 14GS 17.7mpg
2003 - Lampe - 21G 0GS 10.7mpg
2002 - Steve Logan - never played in the NBA
2001 - Trenton Hassell - 78g 47GS 28.7mpg
2000 - Marco Jaric - played in Europe till 2003
1999 - John Celestland - 16G 0GS 11.6mpg

Most coaches played players picked where Lee was picked teh same amount as Brown did. Most coaches make players earn their spot in the rotation and it usually takes a year for that to happen. The only player that you can argue is Trenton Hassel who Tim Floyd played a ton.

Channing Frye averaged 26mpg in November when he was Rookie of the Month (despite being a healthy scratch in the first game for no reason other than Brown's arrogance) - in March, before his injury Frye was averaging only 17.5mpg for the month. His minutes went down. Larry Brown sucks. I hate that terrible, plotting, coniving shi!t. He can rot in East Hampton.

While Fryes minutes went down in March before he was injured, Lee's went up. Is there a explanation for this? I don't know, maybe Brown was having a hard time finding minutes for 2 players who play the same position. Frye didn't play AS minutes as I would hope, but his MPG were up there with the rest of the rookies picked where Frye was so I can't really complain about it too much.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-17-2006 2:53 PM]

Rookies Ranked by minutes per game.

PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG PTS FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT%
1
Chris Paul , NOK
78 36.0 16.1 5.2-12.1 .430 .6-2.3 .282 5.1-6.0 .847
2
Charlie Villanueva , TOR
81 29.1 13.0 5.4-11.6 .463 .9-2.6 .327 1.4-2.0 .706
3
CHANNING FRYE, NYK
65 24.4 12.3 4.7-9.8 .477 .0-.1 .333 2.9-3.5 .825---
4
Raymond Felton , CHA
80 30.1 11.8 4.3-11.0 .391 1.2-3.4 .358 2.0-2.8 .725
5
Deron Williams , UTA
80 28.9 10.8 4.2-10.1 .421 1.1-2.7 .416 1.2-1.7 .704
6
Salim Stoudamire , ATL
61 20.4 9.6 3.3-8.0 .413 1.3-3.5 .380 1.6-1.8 .900
7
Andrew Bogut , MIL
82 28.7 9.4 3.9-7.4 .533 .0-.0 .000 1.5-2.4 .629
8
NATE ROBINSON , NYK
72 21.4 9.3 3.2-7.8 .407 .8-2.0 .397 2.1-2.8 .752---
9
Bracey Wright , MIN
7 19.3 8.9 3.0-7.3 .412 .9-2.4 .353 2.0-2.3 .875
10
Luther Head , HOU
80 29.0 8.8 3.2-7.9 .403 1.4-3.9 .361 1.1-1.5 .699
11
Marvin Williams , ATL
79 24.8 8.5 3.0-6.7 .443 .2-.7 .245 2.4-3.2 .747
12
Sean May , CHA
23 17.3 8.2 3.0-7.4 .409 .0-.2 .000 2.1-2.8 .766
13
Rashad McCants , MIN
79 17.3 7.9 3.1-6.8 .450 .8-2.3 .372 1.0-1.3 .736
14
Ryan Gomes , BOS
61 22.7 7.6 2.8-5.8 .487 .0-.1 .333 1.8-2.4 .752
15
Danny Granger , IND
78 22.9 7.5 2.8-6.1 .462 .4-1.2 .323 1.5-1.9 .777
16
Sarunas Jasikevicius , IND
75 21.0 7.3 2.3-5.7 .396 1.1-3.1 .364 1.6-1.8 .910
17
Ike Diogu , GSW
69 15.4 7.0 2.5-4.8 .524 .0-.0 .000 2.0-2.4 .810
18
Monta Ellis , GSW
49 18.7 6.8 2.7-6.5 .415 .6-1.7 .341 .9-1.2 .712
19
Amir Johnson , DET
3 12.9 6.7 2.3-3.3 .700 .7-1.0 .667 1.3-1.3 1.000
20
Joey Graham , TOR
80 19.8 6.7 2.5-5.2 .478 .4-1.1 .333 1.4-1.7 .812
21
Jarrett Jack , POR
79 20.4 6.7 2.4-5.4 .442 .3-1.0 .263 1.6-2.0 .800
22
Martell Webster , POR
61 17.6 6.6 2.3-5.7 .399 1.1-3.0 .357 1.0-1.2 .859
23
Alan Anderson , CHA
36 15.7 5.8 2.1-5.0 .414 .7-1.6 .414 .9-1.1 .805
24
Francisco Garcia , SAC
67 19.7 5.6 1.9-4.9 .400 .6-2.0 .285 1.2-1.5 .772
25
Jose Calderon , TOR
64 23.2 5.5 2.1-4.9 .423 .1-.7 .163 1.2-1.4 .848
26
Gerald Green , BOS
32 11.7 5.2 2.1-4.3 .478 .2-.6 .300 .9-1.2 .784
27
Johan Petro , SEA
68 18.9 5.2 2.2-4.4 .510 .0-.0 .000 .7-1.1 .627
28
DAVID LEE , NYK
67 16.8 5.1 2.0-3.4 .598 .0-.0 .000 1.1-1.8 .577----
29
Anthony Grundy , ATL
12 9.0 4.3 1.6-3.2 .500 .4-1.2 .333 .8-1.2 .643
30
Hakim Warrick , MEM
68 10.8 4.1 1.5-3.4 .443 .0-.0 .000 1.1-1.7 .661
31
Travis Diener , ORL
23 10.7 3.8 1.3-3.0 .420 1.1-2.5 .439 .2-.3 .833
32
Daniel Ewing , LAC
66 14.8 3.8 1.5-3.9 .380 .3-1.2 .282 .5-.7 .783
33
Charles Hayes , HOU
40 13.6 3.7 1.5-2.6 .562 .0-.0 .000 .7-1.1 .644
34
Will Bynum , GSW
15 11.0 3.6 1.4-3.5 .404 .1-.6 .222 .7-1.1 .625
35
Linas Kleiza , DEN
61 8.5 3.5 1.3-2.8 .445 .0-.2 .154 .9-1.3 .704
36
James Singleton , LAC
59 12.9 3.4 1.3-2.6 .510 .2-.3 .500 .7-.8 .780
37
CJ Miles , UTA
23 8.8 3.4 1.2-3.3 .368 .2-.9 .250 .8-1.0 .750
38
Wayne Simien , MIA
43 9.6 3.4 1.3-2.8 .483 .0-.0 .000 .7-.8 .882
39
Orien Greene , BOS
80 15.7 3.2 1.2-3.2 .395 .1-.5 .225 .6-.8 .662
40
Rawle Marshall , DAL
23 10.5 3.1 1.0-2.6 .400 .0-.1 .333 1.0-1.3 .759
41
Josh Powell , DAL
37 11.9 3.0 1.0-2.2 .457 .0-.0 .000 1.0-1.2 .800
42
Sergei Monia , SAC-POR
26 13.2 3.0 1.1-3.3 .333 .3-1.3 .265 .4-.5 .714
43
Dijon Thompson , PHX
10 4.3 2.8 1.1-2.5 .440 .4-1.1 .364 .2-.2 1.000
44
Chris Taft , GSW
17 8.5 2.8 1.4-2.2 .605 .0-.0 .000 .1-.4 .167
45
Donell Taylor , WAS
51 9.3 2.7 1.0-2.7 .390 .1-.3 .235 .6-.8 .698
46
Melvin Sanders , SAS
16 7.1 2.6 1.0-2.1 .485 .1-.2 .667 .4-.6 .700
47
Brandon Bass , NOK
29 9.3 2.3 1.0-2.4 .400 .0-.0 .000 .4-.7 .632
48
Arvydas Macijauskas , NOK
19 7.1 2.3 .7-2.2 .341 .2-.6 .250 .7-.8 .867
49
John Lucas , HOU
13 8.2 2.3 1.1-2.8 .389 .2-.7 .222 .0-.0 .000
49
Jason Maxiell , DET
26 6.1 2.3 .9-2.1 .426 .0-.0 .000 .5-1.6 .333

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Scoring.jsp?league=00&season=22005&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&splitDD=

[Edited by - joec32033 on 07-17-2006 2:59 PM]

What happens when you take out all scrubs playing for the other teams and replace them with the actual players...