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joec32033
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7/7/2006  7:26 AM
Players developed bad habits last season - not lacing up their sneakers for practice, showing up for training camp out of shape, showing up to work with a hangover, freelancing on the court - and bad habits aren't easy to break. Even with a new coach.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/433159p-364952c.html
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Solace
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7/7/2006  8:02 AM
Posted by joec32033:

Players developed bad habits last season - not lacing up their sneakers for practice, showing up for training camp out of shape, showing up to work with a hangover, freelancing on the court - and bad habits aren't easy to break. Even with a new coach.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/433159p-364952c.html

Joe, do I need to point out the obvious? Larry Brown didn't lace their shoes for them. In addition, LB made them fat and made them drink. Finally, LB's constant bantering made them play lackluster on the court. The bad habits were Larry's. Now that we have Isiah, who has applied for sainthood, we'll get velcro sneakers, 6% body fat, low-carb energy drinks and non-alcoholic beer and they will try hard.

Remember, when in doubt, 103% of the blame goes to the coach. -3% goes to your players.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Marv
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7/7/2006  8:04 AM
jesus guys it was new years eve.
joec32033
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7/7/2006  8:09 AM
Posted by Marv:

jesus guys it was new years eve.

Did you just justify showing up hungover for work?
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Marv
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7/7/2006  8:11 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Marv:

jesus guys it was new years eve.

Did you just justify showing up hungover for work?

i think technically you're not hungover if you're still drunk.
joec32033
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7/7/2006  8:12 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Marv:

jesus guys it was new years eve.

Did you just justify showing up hungover for work?

i think technically you're not hungover if you're still drunk.

ROFLMAO!
~You can't run from who you are.~
buddapaw
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7/7/2006  9:08 AM
Posted by joec32033:

Players developed bad habits last season - not lacing up their sneakers for practice, showing up for training camp out of shape, showing up to work with a hangover, freelancing on the court - and bad habits aren't easy to break. Even with a new coach.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/433159p-364952c.html

You read the entire article and this is what you got from it, oh so very objective.
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Silverfuel
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7/7/2006  9:15 AM
Seriously joe! Singling out that quote makes it sound like all the article is doing was bashing Larry Brown. Thats kinda sad becuase all the article was doing was saying is that Isiah wants to get into the playoffs. Basically...I wonder why you posted that single quote from such an optimistic article.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
joec32033
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7/7/2006  9:38 AM
OK...sorry..I underestimated the fact that everyone has to be able to actually read-and have the motivstion to click on a link to see the whole article-to post on a forum...Here is the article in it's entirety with my comments...

LAS VEGAS - Isiah Thomas isn't ready to guarantee anything, especially playoff games at Madison Square Garden next spring. But Larry Brown's replacement believes his 23-win team can make enough of an improvement to reach the postseason for the first time in three years.
Great opening, I believe this team is a playoff team also if it runs and plays absolute minimal D and everyone actually is held accountable.

"My goal is to get to the playoffs," Thomas says. "As a coach, I want to coach a playoff team. That will be our thought from day one. That's what we'll push them towards. Come April, we want to still be lacing them up."
It better be. Anything less gets your ass fired.

A playoff berth would assure Thomas of keeping his title as Knicks president/coach for at least one more year. Last month, Garden chairman James Dolan announced that Thomas had to show significant improvement or find another job.

Although Dolan refused to define what he means by significant improvement, finishing in the top eight in the Eastern Conference is a good place to start. Even if the Knicks improve by 15 wins, a 38-44 record would likely result in the team missing the playoffs for the fourth time in five years. Considering the Knicks' league-high payroll, another dark April could cost Thomas his job.
Knowing this, what's Zeke gonna say? "Well, I know we ain't gonna make the playoffs with the roster I built, but at least the Isiah watch will be interesting."

"I'll say this: I'm very comfortable operating under pressure and the type of pressure that's on me," Thomas said following yesterday's two-hour practice at UNLV. "I've got to make sure our players feel that type of comfort operating in pressure situations, because the NBA is about pressure.
A pressure situation he put himself in. Once again I hope he's comfortable too, for the Knicks sake and for the sake of Isiah's professional career.

"At the end of the day, Jim will decide what he likes and what he doesn't like."
In other words, "Even I can't fool Lil' Jimmy forever....maybe."

Thomas is running practices again for the first time since being fired as coach of the Indiana Pacers before the 2003-04 season. Wearing a whistle and barking instructions, Thomas looks comfortable being front and center again with the players. He said his style will be different from Brown's, saying he takes his cue from his college coach and his mother.

"I'm very old school," he said. "I'm Bob Knight and Mary Thomas. That's what I try to teach them."
I'd honestly prefer more Bob Knight and less Mary Thomas, unless Mary Thomas coached some basketball team to any type of championship.

Brown is an old-school Hall of Famer, and yet he couldn't squeeze 25 wins out of the team he inherited. Thomas the president is not expected to make any significant changes, which means he'll make things difficult for Thomas the coach.
This would be where Isiah being "comfortable under pressure" would be useful.

Brown was criticized for never committing to a set rotation. He used an NBA-record 42 different starting lineups. As the team stands now, Thomas will somehow have to find playing time for five guards - Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Quentin Richardson, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson. The Knicks also have an abundance of power forwards with veterans Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor, plus second-year players Channing Frye and David Lee.
We finally get to see what Isiah had in mind collecting PF's and undersized shoot first PG's.

If Thomas commits to an eight- or nine-player rotation, someone figures to be unhappy. Frye, Lee and Robinson have already taken pot shots at Brown for his methods, but if the Knicks are going to blame Brown for everything, then they could be in big trouble.

Players developed bad habits last season - not lacing up their sneakers for practice, showing up for training camp out of shape, showing up to work with a hangover, freelancing on the court - and bad habits aren't easy to break. Even with a new coach.
Bolded is my quote, in context. Seeing this, does it have ANY different meaning from me posting it by itself?

Thomas says he wants his players to fall in love again with basketball. He also needs them to be held accountable, act professionally, play hard and win. His future depends on it.
This line here tells all I think about this fluff piece and the fluff act Zeke is putting on. He has to think positive because it is gonna cost him his job if this team sucks. He is not gonna go to Dolan and say "Um...Jim...we gotta talk about this roster...I may need something else...."

"I've always been the guy who has to crawl out of the hole to make it to the top," Thomas said. "I was born to my mom and the family situation we had and the neighborhood we lived in, I definitely wasn't supposed to be where I'm standing today.
Why is it every time he is interviewed he brings up where he grew up and how tough it was and how he was a survivor? I understand that it was tough, the westside of Chicago is tough. It's a great story. But survuving that is alot different than coaching a basketball team. Don't minimize the people living in poverty, drugs and whatever by saying it is just as hard to coach a freaking basketball team. This is easy compared to growing up in the slums, and it is also TOTALLY different. Don't try to convince me your tough show me. I was always taught that the real tough guys don't need to say how tough they are. They just show it.

"So, again, I'm probably a little freakish about (Dolan's edict), but I'm glad to be on the hot plate. I like being in this situation."
Good, I hope he's "a little freakish" about his job. But don't tell me you like being in this situation. Noone "likes" working with their job on the line. No one.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 07-07-2006 09:42 AM]
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Elite
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7/7/2006  9:50 AM
jerome james showed up to practice all the time with a hangover.. dont u guys remember my post?
McK1
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7/7/2006  9:50 AM
great job joe
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Silverfuel
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7/7/2006  10:25 AM
Oh wow joe, you really showed me and I guess that reply made up for he topic! You are missing the point though. I wasnt asking you to break down the article. I was asking why you pull out one sentence that negatively illustrates Brown even though the entire article is about aiming for the playoffs. Where there is smoke, there is fire and just like Stephon Marbury isnt a good leader, Brown sucked and deserves the beating.

Singling out that sentence makes it look (atleast to me) like he is being blamed for too many things etc. He really deserves it and the comparisions wont stop all next year. Either Isiah sucks and the teams bombs or he is really good and the team takes off. Either way, he will get whats coming to him same way LB deservers what was coming to him.

So Larry Brown gets blamed for players getting into bad habits because he most probably is responsible. If you were trying to bring up something else, let me know cause I would love to comment on that too. Work sucks today. I have a meeting at 4:30 on a Friday.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
nixluva
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7/7/2006  10:26 AM
Joe you've got some serious issues with Isiah! The team isn't perfect, but then I didn't expect that it would be just 2.5 years after taking over the AWFUL crap we had when he got here. The players we have now are NOT AWFUL. Larry only made it SEEM that way. Is it a great team? Well NO! But was it supposed to be GREAT after just 2.5 years of remaking it? What GM has been able to make a GREAT team in such a short time starting with such an impossible to fix situation? At least he's brought in some good young players to build with:

Curry - 23
Frye - 23
Lee - 23
Nate - 22
Balkman - 22
Collins - 22
Butler - 21

In addition Jamal and QRich are just reaching their prime years and Steph and Francis are in their prime. Nash is still performing at high levels and he's 32 and Kidd is 33, so we have a few good years left for a run with Steph.
joec32033
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7/7/2006  10:34 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:

Oh wow joe, you really showed me and I guess that reply made up for he topic! You are missing the point though. I wasnt asking you to break down the article. I was asking why you pull out one sentence that negatively illustrates Brown even though the entire article is about aiming for the playoffs. Where there is smoke, there is fire and just like Stephon Marbury isnt a good leader, Brown sucked and deserves the beating.

Singling out that sentence makes it look (atleast to me) like he is being blamed for too many things etc. He really deserves it and the comparisions wont stop all next year. Either Isiah sucks and the teams bombs or he is really good and the team takes off. Either way, he will get whats coming to him same way LB deservers what was coming to him.

So Larry Brown gets blamed for players getting into bad habits because he most probably is responsible. If you were trying to bring up something else, let me know cause I would love to comment on that too. Work sucks today. I have a meeting at 4:30 on a Friday.

The only point I was trying to make is that there are issues with these players. No more, no less. Guys are posting things like how Larry Brown -supposedly-didn't coach defense in practice, without even considering the fact that the players may not have even been listening to that so Larry decided to coach something they will listen to. There are 2 sides to every story. I was not making any point other than that.
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joec32033
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7/7/2006  10:42 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Joe you've got some serious issues with Isiah! The team isn't perfect, but then I didn't expect that it would be just 2.5 years after taking over the AWFUL crap we had when he got here. The players we have now are NOT AWFUL. Larry only made it SEEM that way. Is it a great team? Well NO! But was it supposed to be GREAT after just 2.5 years of remaking it? What GM has been able to make a GREAT team in such a short time starting with such an impossible to fix situation? At least he's brought in some good young players to build with:

Curry - 23
Frye - 23
Lee - 23
Nate - 22
Balkman - 22
Collins - 22
Butler - 21

In addition Jamal and QRich are just reaching their prime years and Steph and Francis are in their prime. Nash is still performing at high levels and he's 32 and Kidd is 33, so we have a few good years left for a run with Steph.

I have no issues with Isiah if he makes the team better. Actually when we hired him as a GM I was hoping he would coach. I was alot less thrilled with him as a GM. IMO, Firing Larry didn't improve us long term, but did short term. I have been racking my brain tryin to find a good comparison, and I think I have one. I would have been happier with letting Zeke coach and not even thinking about Larry Brown, but now that we had Larry Brown, there is no reason to trade back down.

It's like buying a brand new Mitsu Eclipse. It's flashy, it'll get the job done, but it is not a car that screams dependable car. Now you go out and win a 2005 Volvo S80. Not as flashy much more dependable, and overall a better car. Which car do you get rid of? I personally choose the Volvo. It's a safer and all around better choice. Larry was the Volvo, Zeke is the Eclipse.

All Isiah had to do with Larry to make this work was back him up. Tell the players he is the coach, what he says goes. Problems squashed right there.
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Marv
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7/7/2006  10:45 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by nixluva:

Joe you've got some serious issues with Isiah! The team isn't perfect, but then I didn't expect that it would be just 2.5 years after taking over the AWFUL crap we had when he got here. The players we have now are NOT AWFUL. Larry only made it SEEM that way. Is it a great team? Well NO! But was it supposed to be GREAT after just 2.5 years of remaking it? What GM has been able to make a GREAT team in such a short time starting with such an impossible to fix situation? At least he's brought in some good young players to build with:

Curry - 23
Frye - 23
Lee - 23
Nate - 22
Balkman - 22
Collins - 22
Butler - 21

In addition Jamal and QRich are just reaching their prime years and Steph and Francis are in their prime. Nash is still performing at high levels and he's 32 and Kidd is 33, so we have a few good years left for a run with Steph.

I have no issues with Isiah if he makes the team better. Actually when we hired him as a GM I was hoping he would coach. I was alot less thrilled with him as a GM. IMO, Firing Larry didn't improve us long term, but did short term. I have been racking my brain tryin to find a good comparison, and I think I have one. I would have been happier with letting Zeke coach and not even thinking about Larry Brown, but now that we had Larry Brown, there is no reason to trade back down.

It's like buying a brand new Mitsu Eclipse. It's flashy, it'll get the job done, but it is not a car that screams dependable car. Now you go out and win a 2005 Volvo S80. Not as flashy much more dependable, and overall a better car. Which car do you get rid of? I personally choose the Volvo. It's a safer and all around better choice. Larry was the Volvo, Zeke is the Eclipse.

All Isiah had to do with Larry to make this work was back him up. Tell the players he is the coach, what he says goes. Problems squashed right there.

yeah but this volvo had a leaky valve and under pressure itn became very tempermental and undependable.
joec32033
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7/7/2006  10:53 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by nixluva:

Joe you've got some serious issues with Isiah! The team isn't perfect, but then I didn't expect that it would be just 2.5 years after taking over the AWFUL crap we had when he got here. The players we have now are NOT AWFUL. Larry only made it SEEM that way. Is it a great team? Well NO! But was it supposed to be GREAT after just 2.5 years of remaking it? What GM has been able to make a GREAT team in such a short time starting with such an impossible to fix situation? At least he's brought in some good young players to build with:

Curry - 23
Frye - 23
Lee - 23
Nate - 22
Balkman - 22
Collins - 22
Butler - 21

In addition Jamal and QRich are just reaching their prime years and Steph and Francis are in their prime. Nash is still performing at high levels and he's 32 and Kidd is 33, so we have a few good years left for a run with Steph.

I have no issues with Isiah if he makes the team better. Actually when we hired him as a GM I was hoping he would coach. I was alot less thrilled with him as a GM. IMO, Firing Larry didn't improve us long term, but did short term. I have been racking my brain tryin to find a good comparison, and I think I have one. I would have been happier with letting Zeke coach and not even thinking about Larry Brown, but now that we had Larry Brown, there is no reason to trade back down.

It's like buying a brand new Mitsu Eclipse. It's flashy, it'll get the job done, but it is not a car that screams dependable car. Now you go out and win a 2005 Volvo S80. Not as flashy much more dependable, and overall a better car. Which car do you get rid of? I personally choose the Volvo. It's a safer and all around better choice. Larry was the Volvo, Zeke is the Eclipse.

All Isiah had to do with Larry to make this work was back him up. Tell the players he is the coach, what he says goes. Problems squashed right there.

yeah but this volvo had a leaky valve and under pressure itn became very tempermental and undependable.

Well....your right, and technically Zeke is not a brand new Eclipse but a 2 yr old one with no warranty and no real history of being dependable.

When it comes to rebuilding a team, Larry is very dependable. 30 yrs, we are the only one he couldn't rebuild.
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Anji
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7/7/2006  11:48 AM
NOt lacing up their shoes???? Talk about reaching. Did they chew their gum to loud too???? LOLROFL.
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joec32033
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7/7/2006  11:57 AM
Posted by Anji:

NOt lacing up their shoes???? Talk about reaching. Did they chew their gum to loud too???? LOLROFL.

This is a reach, yet when something comes out and says Larry Brown didn't teach defense in practice-something he has done for 30+ years and is the basis of his coaching philosophy-that isn't a reach?
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newyorknewyork
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7/7/2006  12:01 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Anji:

NOt lacing up their shoes???? Talk about reaching. Did they chew their gum to loud too???? LOLROFL.

This is a reach, yet when something comes out and says Larry Brown didn't teach defense in practice-something he has done for 30+ years and is the basis of his coaching philosophy-that isn't a reach?

Who's the wize guy that said that. Larry Brown not teaching defense is an oxymoron

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