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"Isiah never recovered from the bird comment"
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Killa4luv
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6/25/2006  10:37 AM
Swiped from basaglia RealGM.
That is is the absolute source of all this Isiah bashing. I was just a kid when Isiah and Rodman made that infamous comment about Bird, but I'm old enough to realize that it has followed Zeke ever since.

Everything Isiah Thomas does is blown COMPLETELY out of proportion.

Let's go over all the Isiah controversies, shall we?

He froze out Jordan in the AS game. This is utter bullshyt. I guarantee you this story was not spread before 1987. Jordan was a rookie, first of all, so why the hell should he be getting a bunch of shots anyway. Secondly, Jordan was shot 2-9? He was shooting bricks anyway! Bird took the most shots and handled the ball quit a bit, but no one accused him of freezing out MJ. Isiah would have had to conspire with Doc, Bird, Moses and all those other guys. It's a trashy story spread by people who hate Isiah.

He ruined the CBA. This disgusts me. The CBA was a running joke for decades about college washouts and now everyone tries to remember it fondly because Isiah somehow "ruined" it? Are CBA games aired ANYWHERE? What did Isiah ruin? It was his damn money. David Stern wanted to buy the CBA from Isiah, because he didn't want Zeke to have it. So, when Zeke refused to sell to him, Stern used the NBA billions to establish the NBDL. That's like Donald Trump trying to compete with the NFL with the USFL. Isiah isn't retarded. He decided to get rid of the CBA, before he lost millions.

He ruined the Raptors. This is a joke. Isiah drafted Stoudamire (ROY 1995), Camby (A solid center for years in this league...carried the Knicks to the finals, if I recall) and T-Mac (It's T-MAC!!!) and the Raptors ruined their future by screwing Isiah on his bid to become majority owner of that franchise. They pulled that deal at the 11th hour. It was all over the papers and TV that Isiah would be come the first black majority owner in sports and DAVID STERN found DON SLAIGHT another buyer. You can look it up. Isiah got screwed. And none of those players wanted to play for the Raptors anymore, especially Camby and Damon, because they know Zeke got screwed.

He ruined the Knicks. Cut the shyt. Scott Layden ruined the Knicks. The Knicks are still paying guys that idiot overpaid. Isiah's been here 2.5 years and he ruined the Knicks? Sure. The Knicks ain't won a damned thing in over 30 years and Isiah ruined the Knicks? You people are so brainwashed with Isiah-hate I honestly feel sorry for you. Now, every player on this roster has to be portrayed as lazy, soft, stupid and just a flat-out loser because Isiah is responsible for bringing them here. Stephon Marbury is no more of a loser than Kevin Garnett or Grant Hill or T-Mac, all of whom have a COMBINED 2nd round appearance to their names. Eddy Curry was being hailed as the next great big man his last year in Chicago and now ALL OF A SUDDEN HE'S A SCRUB. I swear to God, I can choke some of the people who write this shyt.

Larry Brown ruined this past season. There is no amount of spin that can undo the facts. He was awful. He let his personal stuff with Steph interfere with his job. He *waited* for Steph to make a mistake and he pounced on it. It was a complete joke. This is the same man who went to Dumars and told him to trade Chauncey, Tayshaun and Rip. Dumars kindly asked Larry to get his dumb Mr. Roper lookin' ass outta his office. And that's exactly what Isiah did after Larry kept asking for trades. Larry thought the pressure from the media would make Dolan break and Isiah would be fired. Well, Dolan is a strong-willed dude and those conversation will those players sealed Larry's fate.

The Knicks will be roasted next year. Even when they are winning, writers are going to make a big deal out of players playing hard for Isiah and they are going to try to spin it as if the players didn't give Larry an honest effort. DO NOT BUY THIS CRAP!

All of you unbiased objective Knicks fans who support Isiah and think he's moving us in the right direction, you guys are just gonna have to be tough, because the media will never be kind to Isiah. It's just never going to happen. Before 1987, Isiah was one of the most beloved figures in basketball. He was portrayed as the ghetto kid with the big smile and big heart who made it big. That all changed after he said that stuff about White America's Hero.

Everything I've said is true. We can debate it all day long, because I can back all I've said, while most of you haters will just repeat the same tired ass lines Bill Simmons is going to repeat with his next lame choc-fulla pop-culture references column.

The guy makes some points.

But Bill Simmons won me over with that All-Star piece. That was a freaking classic piece.
AUTOADVERT
Killa4luv
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6/25/2006  10:38 AM
No one cared about the CBA before Isiah and no one cares NOW. It's just something that's said to make Isiah look bad. It's like someone trying to mention Donald Trump's USFL failure in the early 80s. Isiah is a millionaire several times over OFF THE COURT, so he does have some business sense, no matter how much he's portrayed as inept. He's put other players children through school, because those guys didn't take care of their money. But, the media RARELY reports that.

Isiah was a failure with the Raptors? Um, he was there three years...when the STARTED! The were bound to be bad, it was an expansion team. But, that didn't stop him from giving them a nucleus of Mac, Camby and Damon did it? He left in 1997. What the hell have the Raptors done since? Not a damned thing.

Isiah was a failure with the Pacers? Sure, he was, because the Pacers have done soooooo much better without him. Isiah took over a Pacer team that lost its ENTIRE frontline in 2000. Isiah developed Miller, O'neal and Artest and Tinsley. Has Carlisle developed that SCRUB BIRD DRAFTED, DAVID HARRISON? Hell no. Is that one-legged Euro guard Bird fell in love with and gave 5 million a year worth a damn? Hell no.

I can argue this stuff all day, because people like you aren't used to seeing Isiah actually defended WITH FACTS. It's like you get shocked that someone actually has the balls to stand up to YEARS of misinformation about the man.
Silverfuel
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6/25/2006  10:41 AM
Thats a good one killa. I'm gonna send this link to a couple non ultimateknicks posters.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
fishmike
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6/25/2006  11:02 AM
the only fair point is about the Raps... I thought Isiah made some OK moves there and drafted the BPAs in Mouse, Camby and TMac.
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fishmike
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6/25/2006  11:03 AM
Isiah and the CBA

The Isiah Thomas Years (1999-2001)
In 1999, the CBA had survived for 54 years. By 2001, the league had shut down, declared bankruptcy, and several of its teams joined a rival league. Popular opinion lays the blame for the CBA's demise on former NBA superstar and Hall of Famer Isiah Thomas, who purchased the CBA and ran it as a single-entity league, only to abandon it a year later for an NBA coaching job.

The following is a timeline of the events surrounding Thomas' ownership of the CBA:

August 3, 1999 - Former NBA superstar Isiah Thomas purchases the CBA - the entire league, including all the teams, and its marketing company, CBA Properties - for $10 million. Thomas says that the league will now operate as a single-owner entity, and that the CBA will continue to be the official developmental league of the NBA.

October 7, 1999 - the sale of the CBA to Thomas is finalized. Thomas paid $5 million up front and agreed to make four additional payments to the CBA's former team owners for the balance of the debt.

October 24, 1999 - Thomas announces that there will be salary cuts in the CBA. The average salary of $1,500 per week will be reduced to $1,100 per week, with rookies getting $800 a week. Thomas' reasoning is that by reducing the number of veterans in the league, there will be more young talent available for NBA teams.

January 18, 2000 - For the first time in three years, the CBA holds an All-Star Game. The Sioux Falls SkyForce hosts the event. The All-Star Game also features an All-Rookie game, featuring the CBA's top 16 rookies.

March 2000 - the NBA offers Thomas $11 million and a percentage of the profits for the CBA. Thomas chose not to sell the league to the NBA. "The NBA made an offer that wasn't what Isiah expected," said Brendan Suhr, a former coach and co-owner of the CBA's Grand Rapids Hoops, "so he decided not to sell the league at that time."

May 2000 - a CBA All-Star team travels to China for a three-game series.

June 28, 2000 - Isiah Thomas is offered the head coaching job of the NBA's Indiana Pacers. Since the NBA rules forbid a coach from owning his own league, as it would be a conflict of interest (he could sign the minor league's best talent to his NBA team, for example), Thomas has to sell the CBA. On this day, Thomas signs a letter of intent to sell the CBA to the NBA Players' Union.
In the summer of 2000, after twenty years of using the CBA as its developmental league, the NBA announces it will form its own minor league feeder system, creating the National Basketball Development League (NBDL or "D-League"). The CBA will no longer be the NBA's official developmental league after the 2001 season.

On October 2, 2000, Isiah Thomas, unable to sell his ownership in the CBA, places the league into a blind trust, and accepts the head coaching job of the Pacers. With the league in a blind trust, there are no funds available to pay players, to buy plane tickets for away games, or to handle day-to-day operations.

February 8, 2001 - the CBA suspends play and folds. The blind trust that was to find a new owner for the league gives up. The league has over $2 million
in debts. The teams are offered back to their original owners.

February 24, 2001 - 18 months after Thomas purchased the CBA, the league declared bankruptcy. Five of the former CBA team owners repurchased their franchises and joined the rival International Basketball League (IBL) to finish out the season. Other team owners chose to let their franchises fold completely, rather than reincur debts that were not theirs originally.
Summer 2001 - The IBL folds.

November 2001 - The CBA reorganizes for the 2001-02 season, as CBA franchises in Rockford, Gary, Grand Rapids and Sioux Falls merge with the smaller International Basketball Association (IBA), with franchises in Bismarck (Dakota Wizards), Fargo (Fargo-Moorhead Beez) and Saskatoon (Saskatchewan Hawks). The Flint (Mich.) Fuze joining as an expansion team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Basketball_Association

[Edited by - fishmike on 06-25-2006 11:04 AM]
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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6/25/2006  11:11 AM
Thomas' bid to buy majority ownership in NBA's Toronto Raptors is unsuccessful - Isiah Thomas, National Basketball Association

Jet, August 18, 1997

Isiah Thomas will not become the first Black majority owner of a professional sports franchise. At least not yet.

Thomas, who is general manager and 9 percent owner of the NBA's Toronto Raptors, and the team's majority-owner Allan Slaight failed to reach an agreement on a purchase price that would have made Thomas majority owner of the team.

"We went back and forth and back and forth," said Thomas in USA Today. "I guess in simple terms he believed it was one price, and we believed it was another. I guess I had to ask myself from a business standpoint whether I wanted this bad enough in my mind to make a bad deal. The answer was no."

Neither of the two men revealed how far apart they were in making a deal.

Thomas and Slaight signed a letter of intent for Thomas to purchase majority ownership of the Raptors in April (JET, May 12). The deadline for an agreement was July 31.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n13_v92/ai_19681033


[Edited by - McK1 on 06-25-2006 11:11 AM]
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McK1
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6/25/2006  11:19 AM
From the Piston's nba.com website:

The most memorable All Star memory of Isiah Thomas is probably the 1985 game, where big-fish Isiah “froze out” Michael Jordan in his first all star game. Jordan would hit only 2-9 FG in 22 minutes in that game. No one mentioned anything about a freeze during the game. It was the hot rumor after the All Star game had ended.

the author of that post guarantees it wasn't mention till 87. someone should inform the nba.

http://www.nba.com/pistons/history/Isiah_Thomas_Leader_of_the_Bad_Boys.html
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McK1
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6/25/2006  11:24 AM
more on the underlying circumstances that may have led to the alleged freeze-out from Sam Smith.

http://espn.go.com/nba/allstar/2003/columns/smith_sam/1504869.html

King Michael I.

It's so long ago that nobody remembers -- remembers that Magic Johnson was the NBA, with two championships already, that Larry Bird was the NBA, and Julius Erving and Moses Malone and that kid Thomas, already a three-time All-Star and All-Star Game MVP. And here comes this Jordan kid with the special sneakers and the personal warmups, and just who did he think he was!

Back then Johnson and Thomas were the axis powers, one from Michigan State, the other playing in Detroit. They were the kissin' cousins of the NBA -- friends, confidants. They shared business relationships and advisors. Jordan was the new kid on the block at the All-Star Game in 1985, when everyone wore All-Star garb to the game. Not Jordan, who really didn't know better, sort of like the mid-80s version of taking a couple of retro jerseys. Jordan just thought he was doing what was best for the companies that paid him so much money then. He didn't know it just was not done. Several of the others thought Jordan was trying to show them up, show himself to be something special.

It supposedly led to The Freezeout.

That was the alleged infamous chill of Jordan in his first All-Star Game in 1985, supposedly led by Johnson and Thomas. One of their business agents whispered it to reporters afterward. Jordan, rocketing through the league as already one of its most prolific scorers, was held to seven points on 2-of-9 shooting. But I say "allegedly" because many doubt it ever happened. After all, Johnson and Thomas were on opposite teams, and the other supposed principal co-conspirator was George Gervin, also on the West team with Johnson. How were they supposed to freeze out Jordan and embarrass him? Thomas did score 22 points in the game, but it was far from his best All-Star output. There probably was no organized or disorganized freezeout.

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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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6/25/2006  11:31 AM
Great post, Killa.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
fishmike
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6/25/2006  11:45 AM
also, who from the Layden regime is on this team? Kinda funny how all Layden's mistakes ISiah repeated
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Killa4luv
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6/25/2006  11:47 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Isiah and the CBA

The Isiah Thomas Years (1999-2001)
In 1999, the CBA had survived for 54 years. By 2001, the league had shut down, declared bankruptcy, and several of its teams joined a rival league. Popular opinion lays the blame for the CBA's demise on former NBA superstar and Hall of Famer Isiah Thomas, who purchased the CBA and ran it as a single-entity league, only to abandon it a year later for an NBA coaching job.

The following is a timeline of the events surrounding Thomas' ownership of the CBA:

August 3, 1999 - Former NBA superstar Isiah Thomas purchases the CBA - the entire league, including all the teams, and its marketing company, CBA Properties - for $10 million. Thomas says that the league will now operate as a single-owner entity, and that the CBA will continue to be the official developmental league of the NBA.

October 7, 1999 - the sale of the CBA to Thomas is finalized. Thomas paid $5 million up front and agreed to make four additional payments to the CBA's former team owners for the balance of the debt.

October 24, 1999 - Thomas announces that there will be salary cuts in the CBA. The average salary of $1,500 per week will be reduced to $1,100 per week, with rookies getting $800 a week. Thomas' reasoning is that by reducing the number of veterans in the league, there will be more young talent available for NBA teams.

January 18, 2000 - For the first time in three years, the CBA holds an All-Star Game. The Sioux Falls SkyForce hosts the event. The All-Star Game also features an All-Rookie game, featuring the CBA's top 16 rookies.

March 2000 - the NBA offers Thomas $11 million and a percentage of the profits for the CBA. Thomas chose not to sell the league to the NBA. "The NBA made an offer that wasn't what Isiah expected," said Brendan Suhr, a former coach and co-owner of the CBA's Grand Rapids Hoops, "so he decided not to sell the league at that time."

May 2000 - a CBA All-Star team travels to China for a three-game series.

June 28, 2000 - Isiah Thomas is offered the head coaching job of the NBA's Indiana Pacers. Since the NBA rules forbid a coach from owning his own league, as it would be a conflict of interest (he could sign the minor league's best talent to his NBA team, for example), Thomas has to sell the CBA. On this day, Thomas signs a letter of intent to sell the CBA to the NBA Players' Union.
In the summer of 2000, after twenty years of using the CBA as its developmental league, the NBA announces it will form its own minor league feeder system, creating the National Basketball Development League (NBDL or "D-League"). The CBA will no longer be the NBA's official developmental league after the 2001 season.

On October 2, 2000, Isiah Thomas, unable to sell his ownership in the CBA, places the league into a blind trust, and accepts the head coaching job of the Pacers. With the league in a blind trust, there are no funds available to pay players, to buy plane tickets for away games, or to handle day-to-day operations.

February 8, 2001 - the CBA suspends play and folds. The blind trust that was to find a new owner for the league gives up. The league has over $2 million
in debts. The teams are offered back to their original owners.

February 24, 2001 - 18 months after Thomas purchased the CBA, the league declared bankruptcy. Five of the former CBA team owners repurchased their franchises and joined the rival International Basketball League (IBL) to finish out the season. Other team owners chose to let their franchises fold completely, rather than reincur debts that were not theirs originally.
Summer 2001 - The IBL folds.

November 2001 - The CBA reorganizes for the 2001-02 season, as CBA franchises in Rockford, Gary, Grand Rapids and Sioux Falls merge with the smaller International Basketball Association (IBA), with franchises in Bismarck (Dakota Wizards), Fargo (Fargo-Moorhead Beez) and Saskatoon (Saskatchewan Hawks). The Flint (Mich.) Fuze joining as an expansion team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Basketball_Association

[Edited by - fishmike on 06-25-2006 11:04 AM]
Fish, in response, the argument that is being made is that Thomas bought the CBA with the understanding that it would become the official farm league of the NBA. It was not one at that time, there were no direct ties, it was not a subsidiary of the NBA. He felt that the offer from Stern was weak offer (it appears to have been) and wanted to wait. Stern was upset by the rejection and out of spite started the NBDL which in effect made the CBA worthless.

I don't claim to know the truth, I'm just saying that the argument being proposed is definitely plausible.
Killa4luv
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6/25/2006  11:49 AM
Posted by McK1:

Thomas' bid to buy majority ownership in NBA's Toronto Raptors is unsuccessful - Isiah Thomas, National Basketball Association

Jet, August 18, 1997

Isiah Thomas will not become the first Black majority owner of a professional sports franchise. At least not yet.

Thomas, who is general manager and 9 percent owner of the NBA's Toronto Raptors, and the team's majority-owner Allan Slaight failed to reach an agreement on a purchase price that would have made Thomas majority owner of the team.

"We went back and forth and back and forth," said Thomas in USA Today. "I guess in simple terms he believed it was one price, and we believed it was another. I guess I had to ask myself from a business standpoint whether I wanted this bad enough in my mind to make a bad deal. The answer was no."

Neither of the two men revealed how far apart they were in making a deal.

Thomas and Slaight signed a letter of intent for Thomas to purchase majority ownership of the Raptors in April (JET, May 12). The deadline for an agreement was July 31.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n13_v92/ai_19681033


[Edited by - McK1 on 06-25-2006 11:11 AM]

The argument is that the the league made it clear that they did not want Isiah to be a majority owner.

Cuban said the same thing about himself, he said they tried everything in the world to stop him, and ultimately it is why he grossly overpaid for the team when he did purchase it.
McK1
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6/25/2006  11:55 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by McK1:

Thomas' bid to buy majority ownership in NBA's Toronto Raptors is unsuccessful - Isiah Thomas, National Basketball Association

Jet, August 18, 1997

Isiah Thomas will not become the first Black majority owner of a professional sports franchise. At least not yet.

Thomas, who is general manager and 9 percent owner of the NBA's Toronto Raptors, and the team's majority-owner Allan Slaight failed to reach an agreement on a purchase price that would have made Thomas majority owner of the team.

"We went back and forth and back and forth," said Thomas in USA Today. "I guess in simple terms he believed it was one price, and we believed it was another. I guess I had to ask myself from a business standpoint whether I wanted this bad enough in my mind to make a bad deal. The answer was no."

Neither of the two men revealed how far apart they were in making a deal.

Thomas and Slaight signed a letter of intent for Thomas to purchase majority ownership of the Raptors in April (JET, May 12). The deadline for an agreement was July 31.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n13_v92/ai_19681033


[Edited by - McK1 on 06-25-2006 11:11 AM]

The argument is that the the league made it clear that they did not want Isiah to be a majority owner.

OK but the guy has no proof of this.

From Isiah Thomas own mouth, they couldn't agree on what majority ownership was worth and he left the bargaining table. There is no evidence David Stern stepped in and told Slaight raise the price up.





[Edited by - McK1 on 06-25-2006 11:56 AM]
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McK1
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6/25/2006  11:57 AM
Isiah Thomas Buys Continental Basketball Association

Move could create a minor league system for NBA, hurt colleges


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Detroit, August 3, 1999 -- Former NBA star Isiah Thomas agreed to buy the Continental Basketball Association, a second-tier professional league for $10 million. The CBA operates in the shadows of the NBA, with franchises in smaller cities and players, while pros, have not made it to the big league.

Don't underestimate the potential of this deal just because Thomas paid a relatively small price for the league. His NBA pedigree and stellar connections, give him the opportunity to revolutionize the basketball system as we now know it.

The acquisition will change the CBA structure to a single entity structure, such as the now-defunct ABL or Major League Soccer, where the league controls every aspect of governance. According to the New York Times, Thomas plans to expand the number of teams in the league, and give it a greater profile. What is more important is that the stage is now set for the creation of a minor league system in basketball -- a first -- causing premature gray hairs in scalps of many college sports administrators, University presidents and NCAA bureaucrats.

The NCAA Training Ground

Until now, men's college basketball has been the breeding grounds for talent in the NBA. There is no realistic alternative for young men to get their experience except in the top collegiate programs. But that system, under the jurisdiction of the NCAA, has its faults.

First, the role of the so-called "student-athlete" has received a great deal of debate and criticism. Are these young men primarily college students or college athletes? The NCAA believes they are students first, and has enacted a slew of regulations regarding their conduct, from acceptance of money to playing schedules. The rules are equal for all NCAA sanctioned colleges and in many cases, they make a good deal of sense. Just ask any collegiate tennis player or swimmer.

But because men's college basketball is so high-profile (with an annual orgy of hype every March) it generates considerable money for the colleges and the NCAA due to lucrative television contracts. Some colleges have an interest in keeping players, even those with academic deficiencies and will sometimes go to unethical and outrageous lengths to do so as seen in the recent case involving the University of Minnesota (click here).

A minor league can solve some of the problems and end much of the hypocrisy. If a high school kid is talented enough, and wishes to become a professional basketball player, he could bypass college and sign with a CBA team once he becomes a legal adult. He can hone his skills there and ultimately be "called up" by an NBA club if the time is right. He will be modestly paid for his services and could take college classes during the off-season (maybe the CBA can nurture co-operative educational programs). As Thomas said: "I don't recommend that anyone not go to school. This league would hopefully use a lot of programs with kids to continue their education."

More and more youngsters are bypassing the colleges to try their luck with the NBA. An NBA-affiliated CBA would undoubtedly increase that number. Those who do not make it to the NBA could have productive careers at the CBA. With a minor league system, more young people will have the opportunity to play professional basketball.

But this change will produce losers, first among them the colleges and their staffs. Alumni contributions -- often affected by the performance of an athletic team -- would decline if some of the best players would not attend school. The ratings and prestige of television broadcasts such as the NCAA tournament would also suffer. They could go the way of the NIT tournament -- a respected event, but without the quasi-religious air of its never rival.

If the sun sets on the era of de facto professional college basketball, the CBA purchase and revitalization could be a good thing.

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McK1
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6/25/2006  12:13 PM
makes sense Isiah's biggest opponent would be the multibillion dollar NCAA who stood to lose players. Not making it to or in the league didn't stop many of players from being part of some great college teams. Perhaps Isiah should have chose sided with Stern seeing as how Stern eventually won with the age limit and NBDL.

Reportedly Stern offered 2 mill over his original investment and profit sharing...Isiah's ego declined?

[Edited by - McK1 on 06-25-2006 12:15 PM]
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Killa4luv
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6/25/2006  12:19 PM
Posted by McK1:

makes sense Isiah's biggest opponent would be the multibillion dollar NCAA who stood to lose players. Not making it to or in the league didn't stop many of players from being part of some great college teams. Perhaps Isiah should have chose sided with Stern seeing as how Stern eventually won with the age limit and NBDL.

Reportedly Stern offered 2 mill over his original investment and profit sharing...Isiah's ego declined?

[Edited by - McK1 on 06-25-2006 12:15 PM]

Good point about the NCAA, and of course he should have rolled with Stern, but hindsight is 20/20. I don't know what it was really wrth to know if that deal was fair or not. Obviously, looking back, we can say he should have done it.
Killa4luv
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6/25/2006  12:24 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by McK1:

Thomas' bid to buy majority ownership in NBA's Toronto Raptors is unsuccessful - Isiah Thomas, National Basketball Association

Jet, August 18, 1997

Isiah Thomas will not become the first Black majority owner of a professional sports franchise. At least not yet.

Thomas, who is general manager and 9 percent owner of the NBA's Toronto Raptors, and the team's majority-owner Allan Slaight failed to reach an agreement on a purchase price that would have made Thomas majority owner of the team.

"We went back and forth and back and forth," said Thomas in USA Today. "I guess in simple terms he believed it was one price, and we believed it was another. I guess I had to ask myself from a business standpoint whether I wanted this bad enough in my mind to make a bad deal. The answer was no."

Neither of the two men revealed how far apart they were in making a deal.

Thomas and Slaight signed a letter of intent for Thomas to purchase majority ownership of the Raptors in April (JET, May 12). The deadline for an agreement was July 31.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n13_v92/ai_19681033


[Edited by - McK1 on 06-25-2006 11:11 AM]

The argument is that the the league made it clear that they did not want Isiah to be a majority owner.

OK but the guy has no proof of this.

From Isiah Thomas own mouth, they couldn't agree on what majority ownership was worth and he left the bargaining table. There is no evidence David Stern stepped in and told Slaight raise the price up.





[Edited by - McK1 on 06-25-2006 11:56 AM]

Of this there is no proof that I have seen. But I do know that the exact same thing happened with Cuban and he said it with his own mouth. The only difference is, you can't outprice Cuban. I just find this whole scenario very interesting, given that I do think he gets an unfair bad rap. I know some of it has to do with the nationwide hate for the knicks in general, but the writers never took it this far with Layden and we sucked then too.
EnySpree
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6/25/2006  12:32 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Swiped from basaglia RealGM.
That is is the absolute source of all this Isiah bashing. I was just a kid when Isiah and Rodman made that infamous comment about Bird, but I'm old enough to realize that it has followed Zeke ever since.

Everything Isiah Thomas does is blown COMPLETELY out of proportion.

Let's go over all the Isiah controversies, shall we?

He froze out Jordan in the AS game. This is utter bullshyt. I guarantee you this story was not spread before 1987. Jordan was a rookie, first of all, so why the hell should he be getting a bunch of shots anyway. Secondly, Jordan was shot 2-9? He was shooting bricks anyway! Bird took the most shots and handled the ball quit a bit, but no one accused him of freezing out MJ. Isiah would have had to conspire with Doc, Bird, Moses and all those other guys. It's a trashy story spread by people who hate Isiah.

He ruined the CBA. This disgusts me. The CBA was a running joke for decades about college washouts and now everyone tries to remember it fondly because Isiah somehow "ruined" it? Are CBA games aired ANYWHERE? What did Isiah ruin? It was his damn money. David Stern wanted to buy the CBA from Isiah, because he didn't want Zeke to have it. So, when Zeke refused to sell to him, Stern used the NBA billions to establish the NBDL. That's like Donald Trump trying to compete with the NFL with the USFL. Isiah isn't retarded. He decided to get rid of the CBA, before he lost millions.

He ruined the Raptors. This is a joke. Isiah drafted Stoudamire (ROY 1995), Camby (A solid center for years in this league...carried the Knicks to the finals, if I recall) and T-Mac (It's T-MAC!!!) and the Raptors ruined their future by screwing Isiah on his bid to become majority owner of that franchise. They pulled that deal at the 11th hour. It was all over the papers and TV that Isiah would be come the first black majority owner in sports and DAVID STERN found DON SLAIGHT another buyer. You can look it up. Isiah got screwed. And none of those players wanted to play for the Raptors anymore, especially Camby and Damon, because they know Zeke got screwed.

He ruined the Knicks. Cut the shyt. Scott Layden ruined the Knicks. The Knicks are still paying guys that idiot overpaid. Isiah's been here 2.5 years and he ruined the Knicks? Sure. The Knicks ain't won a damned thing in over 30 years and Isiah ruined the Knicks? You people are so brainwashed with Isiah-hate I honestly feel sorry for you. Now, every player on this roster has to be portrayed as lazy, soft, stupid and just a flat-out loser because Isiah is responsible for bringing them here. Stephon Marbury is no more of a loser than Kevin Garnett or Grant Hill or T-Mac, all of whom have a COMBINED 2nd round appearance to their names. Eddy Curry was being hailed as the next great big man his last year in Chicago and now ALL OF A SUDDEN HE'S A SCRUB. I swear to God, I can choke some of the people who write this shyt.

Larry Brown ruined this past season. There is no amount of spin that can undo the facts. He was awful. He let his personal stuff with Steph interfere with his job. He *waited* for Steph to make a mistake and he pounced on it. It was a complete joke. This is the same man who went to Dumars and told him to trade Chauncey, Tayshaun and Rip. Dumars kindly asked Larry to get his dumb Mr. Roper lookin' ass outta his office. And that's exactly what Isiah did after Larry kept asking for trades. Larry thought the pressure from the media would make Dolan break and Isiah would be fired. Well, Dolan is a strong-willed dude and those conversation will those players sealed Larry's fate.

The Knicks will be roasted next year. Even when they are winning, writers are going to make a big deal out of players playing hard for Isiah and they are going to try to spin it as if the players didn't give Larry an honest effort. DO NOT BUY THIS CRAP!

All of you unbiased objective Knicks fans who support Isiah and think he's moving us in the right direction, you guys are just gonna have to be tough, because the media will never be kind to Isiah. It's just never going to happen. Before 1987, Isiah was one of the most beloved figures in basketball. He was portrayed as the ghetto kid with the big smile and big heart who made it big. That all changed after he said that stuff about White America's Hero.

Everything I've said is true. We can debate it all day long, because I can back all I've said, while most of you haters will just repeat the same tired ass lines Bill Simmons is going to repeat with his next lame choc-fulla pop-culture references column.

The guy makes some points.

But Bill Simmons won me over with that All-Star piece. That was a freaking classic piece.

Awesome Article. Strickly badass.

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6/25/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by fishmike:

Isiah and the CBA

The Isiah Thomas Years (1999-2001)
In 1999, the CBA had survived for 54 years. By 2001, the league had shut down, declared bankruptcy, and several of its teams joined a rival league. Popular opinion lays the blame for the CBA's demise on former NBA superstar and Hall of Famer Isiah Thomas, who purchased the CBA and ran it as a single-entity league, only to abandon it a year later for an NBA coaching job.

The following is a timeline of the events surrounding Thomas' ownership of the CBA:

August 3, 1999 - Former NBA superstar Isiah Thomas purchases the CBA - the entire league, including all the teams, and its marketing company, CBA Properties - for $10 million. Thomas says that the league will now operate as a single-owner entity, and that the CBA will continue to be the official developmental league of the NBA.

October 7, 1999 - the sale of the CBA to Thomas is finalized. Thomas paid $5 million up front and agreed to make four additional payments to the CBA's former team owners for the balance of the debt.

October 24, 1999 - Thomas announces that there will be salary cuts in the CBA. The average salary of $1,500 per week will be reduced to $1,100 per week, with rookies getting $800 a week. Thomas' reasoning is that by reducing the number of veterans in the league, there will be more young talent available for NBA teams.

January 18, 2000 - For the first time in three years, the CBA holds an All-Star Game. The Sioux Falls SkyForce hosts the event. The All-Star Game also features an All-Rookie game, featuring the CBA's top 16 rookies.

March 2000 - the NBA offers Thomas $11 million and a percentage of the profits for the CBA. Thomas chose not to sell the league to the NBA. "The NBA made an offer that wasn't what Isiah expected," said Brendan Suhr, a former coach and co-owner of the CBA's Grand Rapids Hoops, "so he decided not to sell the league at that time."

May 2000 - a CBA All-Star team travels to China for a three-game series.

June 28, 2000 - Isiah Thomas is offered the head coaching job of the NBA's Indiana Pacers. Since the NBA rules forbid a coach from owning his own league, as it would be a conflict of interest (he could sign the minor league's best talent to his NBA team, for example), Thomas has to sell the CBA. On this day, Thomas signs a letter of intent to sell the CBA to the NBA Players' Union.
In the summer of 2000, after twenty years of using the CBA as its developmental league, the NBA announces it will form its own minor league feeder system, creating the National Basketball Development League (NBDL or "D-League"). The CBA will no longer be the NBA's official developmental league after the 2001 season.

On October 2, 2000, Isiah Thomas, unable to sell his ownership in the CBA, places the league into a blind trust, and accepts the head coaching job of the Pacers. With the league in a blind trust, there are no funds available to pay players, to buy plane tickets for away games, or to handle day-to-day operations.

February 8, 2001 - the CBA suspends play and folds. The blind trust that was to find a new owner for the league gives up. The league has over $2 million
in debts. The teams are offered back to their original owners.

February 24, 2001 - 18 months after Thomas purchased the CBA, the league declared bankruptcy. Five of the former CBA team owners repurchased their franchises and joined the rival International Basketball League (IBL) to finish out the season. Other team owners chose to let their franchises fold completely, rather than reincur debts that were not theirs originally.
Summer 2001 - The IBL folds.

November 2001 - The CBA reorganizes for the 2001-02 season, as CBA franchises in Rockford, Gary, Grand Rapids and Sioux Falls merge with the smaller International Basketball Association (IBA), with franchises in Bismarck (Dakota Wizards), Fargo (Fargo-Moorhead Beez) and Saskatoon (Saskatchewan Hawks). The Flint (Mich.) Fuze joining as an expansion team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Basketball_Association

[Edited by - fishmike on 06-25-2006 11:04 AM]
Fish, in response, the argument that is being made is that Thomas bought the CBA with the understanding that it would become the official farm league of the NBA. It was not one at that time, there were no direct ties, it was not a subsidiary of the NBA. He felt that the offer from Stern was weak offer (it appears to have been) and wanted to wait. Stern was upset by the rejection and out of spite started the NBDL which in effect made the CBA worthless.

I don't claim to know the truth, I'm just saying that the argument being proposed is definitely plausible.

The CBA lost some value upon the creation of the NBDL, no doubt, however Isiah is the one that put the dagger in. That's the point they're making. Isiah believed in the league so much that he wouldn't sell it for $11 million+, yet instead he lets it sink like that that's not smart business and effectively killed the CBA.

It's tough to argue that going through Isiah's history, his business says is a little more than questionable. We know he's a better coach than businessman, so hopefully he'll help the Knicks excel in that way.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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6/25/2006  1:30 PM
Leadership has its rewards

Killa - nice job

Funny, how the stories about Omar Minaya having hired too many Latin ballplayers have dried up

Ozzie Guillen will be interesting to watch in his media relations

Isiah was NEVER, and never will be, forgiven for his comments about Larrty Bird by White America
once a knick always a knick
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