Here are my opinions so there is no more confusion from the poor readers and skimmers and over-reactors. Let me know if you need further clarification, or I'm confusing.

Coach: Don't care who is coach just get a plan and a coahc that fits it and then give them power over the players(yes give Zeke power)

GM: Don't want a GM/coach

Marbs:love this guy. Want him to succeed. Feel we can succeed with him. But we can't have him as our leader. Once his leadership is marginalized you will see him become a real player and actually ironically step in and be a very good secondary leader. In the meantime his complaining and revolting is a negative and can't be defended. He ahs every right to hate eveyr coach he plays for. But he has to play every night. I want him here to for once in his career experience winning, but if he can't change he needs to go.

Francis: Did not give a professional effort as a Knick. I think we can win with him as well but look at him the same as Marbs. He is not a franchise player and should no longer be treated this way. Don't mind if he's here but we can't have him, marbs, Craw, Nate and Jalen on the same team. I like all four of these guys but reality says that a couple have to go. LB caused chemistry issues so we fired him. This mix of players will cause chemistry issues and needs to be fired as well. Decide who fits the plan and stick with just a couple.

Crawford: My favorite player this year. Not sold that he is turning into a winner but sold on the fact that he is understanding that he had to make changes. HE IS MY FAVORITE KNICK and I want him to stay here but we can't have, marbs, Stevie, Craw, Nate and Jalen on the same team. I like all five of these guys but reality says that a couple have to go. LB caused chemistry issues so we fired him. This mix of players will cause chemistry issues and needs to be fired as well. Decide who fits the plan and stick with just a couple. If we decide Jamal doesn't fit and can get better without him than as a Knick fan(not a Jamal fan) I will 100% root for the guy he is traded for, if that occurs. I will not root against the new guy in some immature notion to get back at the Knicks for trading my favorite player.

Nate: Anyone that has posted with me knows that this type of player is exaclty the type of player I love. In fact both Allanfan and someone else asked me this question early in the season. I love this guy. Don't like the way he responds to a dunk in a 30 point blow out but still love the guy. He has maturing to do but I have no reason to think it won't happen. He's too young for me to decide one way or another at this point. I feel it's okay to love a guy and not like an action. It's okay to get angry at a players decision and still consider them one of your favorites. Those that skim or over-react to criticisms have called me a "Nate hater" and consistently dismiss the fact that I call him one of my favorites. At first I thought they skimmed or just over-reacted now I just realize I am a poor typer and was wrong. I realize that I was wrong. In the future I will not criticize anything he does because I love him and will therefore say everything he does is great. So right now I no longer think it's wrong to celebrate a dunk in a 30 pt loss

Q: Contradicted himself last year. complained about no freedom then yelled at his teammates for not playing hard. He's trying but real leaders know that you can't have blips like that. I did like the way he admitted his mistakes and played hard down the stretch. Not sold on him yet

Q2: Did a solid job turning his career around. Reports said he whined a little but because I know the tabloids I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he was a good soldier. I hope he is with us next year.

jalen: Has always been one of my favorites. Loved him since the Michigan days and that's why I'm so frustrated with his effort here. I expected him to come in and take a leadership role and show the young guys how to be a professional. Instead he took a back seat. I think he has solid leadership skills but the blip on his radar hurts his credibility. Don't mind him being here next year but can't be on the team with Francis, Jamal, Nate and Steph if we are going to build a great team instead of a mediocre one

David Lee: Love this guy as well. In my book he is untouchable. That being said I have no problem saying he needs to improve on his defense. Not bashing, just stating reality. His confidence also waivered like a rookie. No matter how bad his defense was last year I have no reason to believe he won't work hard and truly believe he will get better and be a very good player as time goes by. But since I think this way I probably shouldn't have said anythinga bout his D. Must mean I'm a hater.

Channing: See above

Butler: Anyone that has posted with me knows that this type of player is exaclty the type of player I love( jsut like Nate :). I feel he gets the most out of his ability and even though I'm sure he hated the situation and possibly hated LB he never complained aobut his role and gave 100% no matter how many DNP's he received. This is the area I give him an edge over Nate. He never cried. He never dunked and celebrated in a 30 point loss. He did what professionals do, he just played. When Nate gets to that point you will see him affect his team in terms of the standings and not just the energy level on the court(oops sorry must mean I hate Nate again. man I'm inconsistent). Sorry, I know this portion is about Butler but man everything Nate does is great, and right and perfect, no criticizing anyone if you are a real fan.

Eddie: Jury is still out on him because he is so young. He's learning the game and I have no problem with that. My question is if we are building around him why have we not added true jumpshooters and perimeter defenders to the team? Why have we not added a rugged shotblocking, rebounding defender to take the pressure off him and allow him to do what he does best? And if we aren't building around him why did we get rid of a lottery pick? The guys is athletic but don't get confused they are making him into a post up player. With his conditioning he is not a great fit for a running team. That's fine. You can build a versatile roster with half runners and half post players. This way when he is tired he can rest. But when he's on the floor we need players that take advantage of the double teams. Use his size to our advantage instead of hoarding guards that take the ball out of his hands. I have not lost patience with him but he needs to step up. No more excuses. Come to camp in shape and play.

JJ: no comment

MoT: Not disappointed with him because his career as a Knick is pretty consistent with his career as a whole.

LB: Horrible job this year. Don't care if he's gone. I dont' care if he's as good or not as good as Phil Jackson or Pat Riley. We didn't hire those guys so who give's a crap. LB's legacy is not important. My issue with his situation is why hire the guy. We knew who he was coming in. You hire a primadonna like LB you let him be a primadonna and you build his team. Every logical(non kool-aid drinker) on the planet knew he would not mesh with some guys on the roster. We assumed that meant these guys would be gone. But that's not how the Knicks do business. Instead they consistently try to mix oil and water. Eitehr hire the guy and build a team around him. How tough is that? I screamed aobut this all off-season when the kool aid drinkers talked about becoming Phoenix East(now they are saying Zeke will turn us into Dallas east-here we go again). His MO is get worse and then get better. It's 100% fine if Isiah did not want this. If he wanted to hire another coach that's 100% fine with me. My problem is if you know what you are getting, why complain when you get it. Firing LB is not the bad move. Hiring him and not supporting him was. That's the same opinion I have with every coach we hire a

[Edited by - bippity10 on 06-22-2006 2:23 PM]

Isiah: Has changed his plan 15 times in his time here. Don, Herb, Lenny, Herb, LB and now Isiah. Build around Allan, Marbs and now Curry. At some point he needs to stick with somehting instead of responding to Dolan, the media and the record. At some point he needs to become accountable if the team keeps lossing. I don't root for him to become accountable. I root for him to change his ways. I root for him to develop a plan. I love the Knicks and don't hate Isiah. By all intents and purposes he should have been fired long ago. That being said as long as he is coach I do not condone anyone rooting for him to fail. I root for one thing from Isiah. Not failure. I root for change. If he changes and gets a direction I will wish that he is here forever. I'm not like some who fantasize about knowing these guys personally and are hurt personally when we lose. When I'm not typing here or watching a game I could care less about these people. I do not care if isiah is coach or GM. I only care if the Knicks win. I don't care who is GM/coach when that happens. I want Isiah to be judged based on the direction of the franchise and not by the amount of wins. If we win 10 games and have a coherent plan he should not be fired. But 33 wins with no draft picks, mismatched players does not get it done. I pray we do not judge him by the record because this will lead to crazy job saving moves. I pray we judge him by some long-term plan that is being developed.

Long-term plan-Youth is not a long-term plan. Youth and a roster that compliment each other built around a specific player or type of player is a long-term plan.

In summary: My opinion of our situation does not change. I am not like some of you guys where I am season after season looking for one person to blame. I realize that we will only win when we become an organization(a team) that works together to achieve a common plan instead of constantly finding people with individual agendas who are searching for one person to blame to take the heat off themselves. I don't hate LB. I don't hate Zeke, I don't hate Marbs. I dont' hate Stevie. Hell I dont' even hate JJ. I do not love any of them either. What I love is the Knicks. I want to see a winner. I've seen a pattern of how we operate since the day pat was traded. That pattern has not changed and has led to a consistently worse record. Those that know me know I've been posting the same them since Don Chaney was coach. Those that don't know me don't have time to think instead they just call me a "Larry lover". Please read the post before responding. That's all I ask.


New Yorknewyork/Allanfan: I know your response already.

New Yorknewyork/Allanfan: I know your response already

I agree with your whole post. We basically have the same principal view on things.

I had to at first recognize the effort put into the post.

You being a Larry Lover goes without saying. Its obvious by the tone of this post you are pretty broken up by this whole situation. As a matter of fact you should probably take some time off of work. Relax a little bit. Get your head together. Make love to your wife a couple more times to relieve that stress. Clear your mind.

Oh God here we go again. Another thread where people are defined as Larry-Lovers. I define myself a Championship-Lover and in my opinion Larry Brown was the coach who could take us there. But here we go again, another thread where people will read none of Bips post and immediately call him a Larry-Lover.

Bip, don't waste your time, most of the people this thread was intended for are going to say the same things, no matter what you say. Unfortunately.

Posted by djsunyc:

bip you're a homer.

as for isiah, if they really believe he has a plan and felt it was somewhat curtailed by lb, then they should give him an extension and stick with him instead of this "fix your own mess" crap. otherwise, he will be gone just like the coaches before him.

I agree 100%. We will be saying all the same things only substituting Isiah's name instead of LB. It's going to take time to fix this mess. So why wait. Hire a coach whose job is to fix the mess over time. If Isiah is that guy whether we like him or not that' got to be the case. Firing him based on a record in February puts us back in the same position we had with Lenny only at that point who the hell is going to want to come coach here?

I am praying that we hire a coach based on a long-term plan. Someday it has to happen. Doesn't it? Does it? Maybe?

Bip,

I read your posts and, reading between the lines, I see that you still love Larry Brown.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 06-22-2006 17:58]

Dear LarryLoverIty10,

I pretty much agree with everything you said even though I don't quite remember the question I asked you. However, I always knew you were a fan of tough point guards b/c you mentioned it way back on MSG, but just one thing...

I will root for Isiah as a coach, but it really appears that he's in a position to fail even worse than Larry, simply b/c he has not 1, but 2 enormous jobs, and he's been real bad at one of them, and when he was a coach, he was decent. Which brings up the one guy I don't think you mentioned...

James Dolan. I think this next paragraph is Bonn's wet dream, but for the most part, Dolan is acting like a kid who thinks he's playing with his own little sandbox, but in reality, it's a lot bigger and he just seems to have no clue how to deal with it. He seems to really support Isiah, which is fine, but why put him in deeper position to fail then. If you want him to coach, then hire another GM. Heck, Kiki is just right there sitting in his home waiting. And to top it off, if Isiah's contract ends in December, what makes Dolan think he'll stay. Who would want to?

Dolan has a lot of work to do. Isiah has no business being both GM and coach. He's no Pat Riley.

Posted by Solace:

Bip, I don't know if you're a Larry-lover, but you are definitely a Don-Chaney lover.

Just teasing. Excellent post(s). I read through it and I pretty much agree. The only thing I disagree with is that some of the players you listed, Marbs, Francis, Jalen, etc... don't show me much in terms of leadership qualities and need serious attitude adjustments. I don't like them at this time, but if they make the necessary changes, I may start.

I also think we have to balance the roster. The roster looks unbalanced to me.

Too many shoot first PG's and PF's, not enough SF's, SG's, or quality centers.

Posted by Solace:

Bip, I don't know if you're a Larry-lover, but you are definitely a Don-Chaney lover.

Just teasing. Excellent post(s). I read through it and I pretty much agree. The only thing I disagree with is that some of the players you listed, Marbs, Francis, Jalen, etc... don't show me much in terms of leadership qualities and need serious attitude adjustments. I don't like them at this time, but if they make the necessary changes, I may start.

I also think we have to balance the roster. The roster looks unbalanced to me.

My problem is not so much with them but with the organizations that continue to hand them things they don't deserve. Marbs and Francis are extremely talented players. They have the talent to help a team win. But they do not have the leadership abilities to lead a team to the promise land. Yet teams keep giving them that job. Until you put them in a position where they have other veteran leaders, and then an organization that puts them in their place when they step out of line and I think they will be fine. Chicago won with DRodman despite his antics becasue the organization ignored or marginalized him. We instead would cater and try to fix everything he complains about. This is what we do with marbs. It's a mistake. He should not be our leader. He should not be our centerpiece. he should just be another talented piece of the puzzle. At that point if he can't buy in, then we can trade him without skipping a beat.

As for Jalen he reminds me a lot of Spree in terms of attitude. He is always going to be a strong personality that feels entitled. But put him on a good team and he will help you. Put him on a bad team and apparently he worries aobut himself.