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LARRY GETS 1 MORE SNUB I guess it's just a matter of time...
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holfresh
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6/10/2006  11:23 AM
June 10, 2006 -- In another slight to Larry Brown during the Orlando pre-draft camp, Knick President Isiah Thomas held a secret workout on Wednesday for four players, including Fairleigh Dickinson's 6-foot-9 forward Gordon Klaiber, and did not invite his lame-duck head coach, according to two sources.

Thomas, Knick Director of Player Personnel Brendan Suhr and European scout Kevin Wilson watched the workout at a remote Orlando gym 30 minutes from the pre-draft camp on the Disney grounds.

Ex-Knick Gerald Wilkens ran the workout, and a source said Klaiber emerged as the greatest revelation in an otherwise drab four-day Orlando camp that ended yesterday with Brown already in the Hamptons.

Knick brass was astounded Klaiber hadn't been invited to the actual camp. The Knicks were intrigued enough to invite Klaiber for another workout in Westchester in 10 days. Brown has run all the Westchester workouts, but it's uncertain if he'll still be coach by then.

When buyout talks eventually begin between Brown and owner James Dolan, rest assured the Knicks will try to hold it against Brown for leaving one day early without authorization.

NBA Commissioner David Stern has yet to step in to mediate, but that could be the path this is taking. Brown is not expected to be fined, but it's clear the Knicks are trying to build a case that he's been insubordinate this season.

It's stunning the Knicks would even care, considering brass ignored him for three days. When Thomas met twice with reporters, he couldn't even bring himself to say Brown's name or acknowledge he was the coach.

"I'm not commenting on something I haven't heard directly," Brown's agent, Joe Glass, said. "It's a non-issue."

As far as Klaiber, the Knicks were concerned he wasn't in tip-top shape, but were intrigued he can play the position they need most - an athletic, tall, sweet-shooting small forward. It would appear a major stretch to take him with the 29th pick, where none of the mock drafts have Klaiber going. But Thomas is known for thinking out of the box, and pegged center Andrew Bynum as a top-10 selection before most executives did last June. Plus, Thomas could take a flyer or trade down into the second round, since he also has the 20th pick.

There's also the chance Klaiber does not get drafted and the Knicks can sign him to the summer-league squad. Because he played at FDU, Klaiber has flown under the radar. The problem the Knicks face in this draft is a chunk of the big-college, projected first-round picks are combo guards and the Knicks are already overstocked there. In Orlando, virtually all of the camp participants were second-round material, as guys they like - UConn's Josh Boone, Mardy Collins and Shawne Williams - did not attend.
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McK1
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6/10/2006  11:40 AM
who cares

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
OasisBU
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6/10/2006  11:57 AM
I think this is all B.S. if you ask me...nobody knows whats really going on here.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
rvhoss
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6/10/2006  11:57 AM
I do
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Nalod
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6/10/2006  12:30 PM

the whole process of setting Larry up and leaking it in the news is very sophmoric. Too much energy and money always working in the wrong direction.

We have deception, intrigue, and the set up. This is a basketball team, not "mission impossible"!
McK1
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6/10/2006  12:40 PM
Media covering shifting to Belkin turning up the heat on Atlanta will God willing deprive Thomas/Mills/Dolan of their only leg to stand on
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BasketballJones
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6/10/2006  1:31 PM
Posted by OasisBU:

I think this is all B.S. if you ask me...nobody knows whats really going on here.


Could be. However, if the Knicks organization wanted to clear up any misunderstandings regarding Larry's position, they could do so very easily. Isiah could simply state that Larry is the coach and has management's full support. "He is the coach, he will be the coach next season. There's no truth to the rumours that we want him gone."

As it is, Dolan & Co. are happy to let Larry Brown twist in the wind. Some say he deserves it, and he will be well paid in any event, so we shouldn't feel sorry for him. But maybe Larry won't be the only one to suffer behind all this.

I think the Knicks are trying to make life uncomfortable for Larry Brown, probably hoping he'll accept a buyout or, preferably, have a heart atack and croak.

However, I think Larry Brown wants his whole $50,000,000. That's a lot of motivation to hang in there and either coach or be fired. So I think we're seeing a battle of wills here, basically Dolan vs. Brown. I imagine they will clear this up before training camp begins. In the meantime, I guess we should view it as a form of entertainment.



[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 06-10-2006 13:33]
https:// It's not so hard.
Rich
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6/10/2006  3:29 PM
Just get his whining butt out of town.
nixluva
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6/10/2006  3:55 PM
Larry can wait. Isiah has more important issues to deal with and he seems to be taking care of business. Its not his call on the LB thing. From everything i've read this is Dolan's deal, so i'm more concerned that Isiah makes the best decisions on this teams roster as he can. He's obviously moved on in his mind and isn't worrying about Larry anymore.

Its going to be REAL interesting to see what Isiah does over the summer. Man if he can have another good draft like he's had in the past that will make me VERY happy.
Rich
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6/10/2006  3:58 PM
But wouldn't the roster have to be constructed differently if the prima donna stays? That's why the LB sitch has to be cleared up first.
EnySpree
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6/10/2006  4:54 PM
I'm sick of Larry Brown.....yeah the MSG big boss Dolan isn't being professional but you just can not dismiss Larry Browns antics anymore. I'm sick of him. He simply can't be the coach now. He is a major pre-madonna. The guy is 65? Sounds more like a 16 year old.
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EnySpree
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6/10/2006  4:56 PM
Gordon Klaiber?....how good is this guy? I'm trying to read up on him. He went to a small school.....very interesting to me. Draft-itis is settling in on me.
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simrud
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6/10/2006  5:23 PM
I'd like it better if Dolan was the one who croaked but thats just me lol.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
gr33d
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6/10/2006  5:39 PM
Larry is learning a valuable lesson right now- do not screw with management! It happens in the all of our everyday jobs, so why not in the NBA? You do a crappy job, you're gone.. Or we make things very uncomfortable for you, your choice.

Yeah yeah yeah, the players are at fault too.. But with his experience and supposed know-how, to lose almost 60 games speaks volumes.

Good riddance to this clown! This guy b!tched about everything under the sun and gave away the second pick in the draft. Nobody predicted us to stink that bad, nobody! Yet, he still feels that need to act as a media whore, conducting roadside interviews. Get over yourself Brown and try not to piss yourself on the way out!
"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
oohah
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6/10/2006  6:01 PM
LB has no place to be upset. He is simply getting the same treatment he dished out.

Many have theorized that LB came here, and then he had the guts "stood up" to Dolan. If that is true his contract should be voided.

I don't care if you are John Wooden, you cannot sign a contract, no matter how big or small, then decide to "take-on" the man who pays you. That is so wrong, it should be obvious to anyone. If you know you cannot co-exist with the owner of a team, do not sign there.

This is 2 times in a row now for LB, from a championship team to a team that is the antithesis of that. Doesn't that mean something?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BlueSeats
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6/10/2006  7:08 PM
Posted by oohah:

LB has no place to be upset. He is simply getting the same treatment he dished out.

Many have theorized that LB came here, and then he had the guts "stood up" to Dolan. If that is true his contract should be voided.

I don't care if you are John Wooden, you cannot sign a contract, no matter how big or small, then decide to "take-on" the man who pays you. That is so wrong, it should be obvious to anyone. If you know you cannot co-exist with the owner of a team, do not sign there.

This is 2 times in a row now for LB, from a championship team to a team that is the antithesis of that. Doesn't that mean something?

I think it's probably too strong to say that brown "stood up" to Dolan. What he did do is defy his requests to shut up to the media, but then so did Marbury and we don't see him bought out either. The media is LB's playground and is one of his means to challenge players and "motivate" them. Typically it's effective, though obviously not here.

But if Dolan knows he hates negative exposure, and knew Brown's relationship with the media (which he and isiah certainly should have), certain gag rules should have been stipulated in his contract, and then perhaps it could be voided cleanly without this morass. But instead these guys went to LB walking backwards with their anuses exposed and said "take us, we're yours." They made videos of LB on the Garden floor winning a championship, they wooed his wife and children, they made him the highest paid coach in the history of the league, they told the world this is "Larry's team", they told players they must adapt or be traded, and they made promises of roster control and all he can drink "juice cards." They handed Larry the keys to the franchise and then stuck him with a car with no motor and are pissed that he broke the tools in the trunk trying to get it to go.

Most of us who complain about the current circus situation don't do so out of pity for Brown, but pity for the franchise. If Dolan wants to pay Brown his 40M remaining to coach elsewhere and then bash him in the press, he can do that, at least we'd be going someplace. But making a mockery of themselves and their ineptitude at building a team and finding and supporting an appropriate coach serves nothing but their own egos. It's like trying to find the silver lining in the mishandling of Chaney and Wilkens. There just isn't one.
fishmike
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6/10/2006  7:35 PM
Posted by oohah:

LB has no place to be upset. He is simply getting the same treatment he dished out.

Many have theorized that LB came here, and then he had the guts "stood up" to Dolan. If that is true his contract should be voided.

I don't care if you are John Wooden, you cannot sign a contract, no matter how big or small, then decide to "take-on" the man who pays you. That is so wrong, it should be obvious to anyone. If you know you cannot co-exist with the owner of a team, do not sign there.

This is 2 times in a row now for LB, from a championship team to a team that is the antithesis of that. Doesn't that mean something?

oohah
what exactly is meant by "taking on" the boss? I mean what does that mean? Does anyone deny that this roster is compiled almost soley of guys that need the ball in their hands to contribute? So he wants roster changes, whoop de doo. What coach isnt a primadonna? What coach doesnt have a monster ego? Did JVG not bench Camby because he was pissed about the Oakley trade? Don Nelson wanted to run the offense through Anthony Mason and it cost him his job. Pat Riley did exactly what Larry Brown did when he went to the Heat, faxing his resignation. Who wouldnt take one of those guys back? I would take any of them.

One and only one thing should be important. Can this guy create or be part of a winning program? If you ask that question about everyone in the Knick org right now the only definitive YES answers are coming from Brown and the young kids that still play hard and listen as they havent gotten their max contracts yet.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
simrud
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6/10/2006  8:36 PM
When you boss sucks, and the team proejct is going to hell, you can 2 things. You can try and explain to him why thing suck. If he is a real idiot like Dolan he will get mad at you. Then, if you really want to keep the job, you just seat there and go along with the nonsense. Eventually the whole group gets fired in a cost cutting move by upper management, and the moron is either reasigned, demoted, or more rarely also fired.

Now, Brown does not really need the money, why not use your position of being a "star" employee who can just go and get an better job in another company and stand up to your boss? Just because most of us can't do it due to our position, it doesnt make it a bad thing.

Kinda makes me wonder if oohah is not a midlevel manager who has trouble gettin his people to perform.

[Edited by - simrud on 06-10-2006 8:36 PM]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
oohah
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6/10/2006  9:15 PM
I think it's probably too strong to say that brown "stood up" to Dolan. What he did do is defy his requests to shut up to the media, but then so did Marbury and we don't see him bought out either. The media is LB's playground and is one of his means to challenge players and "motivate" them. Typically it's effective, though obviously not here.

I did not say Brown has "stood up" to Dolan but it has been said on this forum many times before and just recently. However, he has certainly defieed him in his policy to not make a public stink in the media. Marbury did do the same thing, but only after a long time and many comments about him did he respond. Then Marbury put the muzzle on quick and made nice once it blew up in the papers. ("Hard juice card.")

Don't you think LB has other motives than just challenging his players? Is part of it not just to humiliate or gain dominance?


But if Dolan knows he hates negative exposure, and knew Brown's relationship with the media (which he and isiah certainly should have), certain gag rules should have been stipulated in his contract, and then perhaps it could be voided cleanly without this morass. But instead these guys went to LB walking backwards with their anuses exposed and said "take us, we're yours." They made videos of LB on the Garden floor winning a championship, they wooed his wife and children, they made him the highest paid coach in the history of the league, they told the world this is "Larry's team", they told players they must adapt or be traded, and they made promises of roster control and all he can drink "juice cards." They handed Larry the keys to the franchise and then stuck him with a car with no motor and are pissed that he broke the tools in the trunk trying to get it to go.

Didn't LB know the car had no motor when he showed up? How does dragging everything into the media help? No matter the performance of the team, it seems that all he ahd to do was keep his greivances in-house,to maintain a decent relationship with the owner. I don't think that is unreasonable, do you?

Most of us who complain about the current circus situation don't do so out of pity for Brown, but pity for the franchise. If Dolan wants to pay Brown his 40M remaining to coach elsewhere and then bash him in the press, he can do that, at least we'd be going someplace. But making a mockery of themselves and their ineptitude at building a team and finding and supporting an appropriate coach serves nothing but their own egos. It's like trying to find the silver lining in the mishandling of Chaney and Wilkens. There just isn't one.

I don't think that Dowlan is doing the right thing, but it certainly is poetic. I don't find it to be as much of a mockery as it is being made out to be, that is mostly the media, which makes a circus out of everything. He is under no obligation to fire LB under LB's or anyone else's terms. One thing I am certain of; If Dolan releases him then bashes LB in the press, he will be decried just as much as his now, so what is the difference?

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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6/10/2006  9:22 PM
what exactly is meant by "taking on" the boss? I mean what does that mean?

Ask the guys who have been positing that theory. My theory is that LB is a stubborn old bastard who refuses to adjust his behavior no matter if the results are good or horrendous.

Does anyone deny that this roster is compiled almost soley of guys that need the ball in their hands to contribute? So he wants roster changes, whoop de doo. What coach isnt a primadonna? What coach doesnt have a monster ego? Did JVG not bench Camby because he was pissed about the Oakley trade? Don Nelson wanted to run the offense through Anthony Mason and it cost him his job. Pat Riley did exactly what Larry Brown did when he went to the Heat, faxing his resignation. Who wouldnt take one of those guys back? I would take any of them.

I would take Nelson or JVG back, I want no part of Riley. I'm tired of coaches who think the game is about them, they can all stuff it. However, none of those other guys, even Riley, have never come close to the extra-curricular poor behavior that LB displayed.

One and only one thing should be important. Can this guy create or be part of a winning program? If you ask that question about everyone in the Knick org right now the only definitive YES answers are coming from Brown and the young kids that still play hard and listen as they havent gotten their max contracts yet.

I think the question is not "can he", but "will he". Will Brown coach to win without getting everything he wants? I don't know, and that scares me going into next season. If Brown is looking for Carte Blanche he needs to become a GM coach, and I don't think anyone should be comfortable with that.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-11-2006 04:56 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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