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Stern dismayed by NBA player development system
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nyk4ever
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6/9/2006  9:05 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2477110

DALLAS -- Commissioner David Stern is appalled by the state of the game.

Not the NBA game, mind you, but the game as it is played by a significant percentage of young Americans who aspire to make it into Stern's league.

"There is something totally wrong with the development system for young basketball players," Stern said Friday at his annual NBA Finals news conference. "It historically has not been the place for professional leagues to do [something about] it, but on the basis of the consistent failures of everyone else to do it, we are at least thinking about it, and we'll be getting some dialogue with some interested parties to see if there's something that can be done here."

The subject came up at a Finals in which the Dallas Mavericks have become the first NBA team since the Houston Rockets a decade ago to be led into the championship round by a foreign-born player.

International players are flooding the league and now make up almost 20 percent of the NBA's player population, and scouts are increasingly turning to Europe and South America to find young players who have been developed with a focus on fundamentals rather than flash.

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich summed it up recently by noting how his team usually has a choice on draft night between picking an American player who has been coddled by sneaker companies throughout his teenage years and a foreign player who has spent six or more years playing for his country's national program. And as we've seen with San Antonio's recent drafting patterns, the Spurs have been making the latter choice nearly every time.

NBA officials first broached the subject with other interested parties last winter at a meeting in Chicago that included: officials from Nike; current and former college coaches Mike Krzyzewski, Dean Smith and George Raveling; NCAA president Myles Brand; and representatives from AAU programs. A follow-up meeting was held recently, but no consensus has emerged as to how to address a problem that has been festering over the past two decades.

Twenty years ago, players typically honed their basketball and life management skills in college, then came into the NBA in their early 20s. Nowadays, however, the best American players are often identified before they even reach high school, and sneaker companies and AAU coaches often have a greater influence on those players than their high school coaches and hometown mentors. The end result has been a generation of players entering the league with enormous skills and potential -- but with a lack of comprehension of many of the intricacies of the game that are so important at the highest level.

"The roster of NBA teams is going to be enriched by huge numbers of international players, and it's going to happen," Stern said. "But I also believe that the production of American players and their development is going to go through a renaissance. If we have to fuel it ourselves, OK. Maybe we're viewing it as our obligation to become involved in something we never wanted to touch because it was both unpleasant and possibly deleterious to their academic health, but we're talking about it internally."

Incoming deputy commissioner Adam Silver expounded on Stern's statements in an interview with ESPN.com.

"As David said, from a college and NBA standpoint, it's often too late -- by the time the rules allow us to first engage the players -- to do anything in terms of skills and personal development," Silver said. "There's a morass of rules, some Byzantine, that we're just beginning to understand. We've never done that kind of a thorough investigation into the layered rules and don't yet have an understanding of what we could do, or what others could do.

"We're not as concerned that we get involved, as long as there's a system that produces American players that can compete at the highest levels by the time they're of NBA age. That's what our concern is," Silver said. "We just don't want to bury our heads in the sand and pretend [that] somehow players will arrive miraculously as fully developed adults when there's a screwed-up system all along the way."

Chris Sheridan, a national NBA reporter for the past 10 years, covers the league for ESPN Insider.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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nyk4ever
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6/9/2006  9:07 PM
Wow, you don't have to look much further then our beloved New York Knicks to see exactly what David Stern is talking about, aside from Channing Frye and David Lee.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
PresIke
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6/9/2006  10:59 PM
Well there is a fundamental problem with the way too many kids are learning the game, or how to be effective in a game. One recent example of this is a recent bit of anecdotal evidence.

The other day I was playing 2 on 2 with a relatively tall and reasonably wide teenager as my teammate. However, whenever he had the ball and was within 20-25 feet (most of the time it was 20 feet or so) he took a shot, no matter how open I was, if I was anywhere near the basket for a rebound, or if his defender was right on top of him. He barely passed the ball and kept chucking away. I felt like I was playing with Mo Taylor or Kobe, except the kid shot 5% from the field (and I think I'm being generous). It was even more frustrating because I tried to make plays to get him to cut and take better shots since I knew he was going to shoot it anyway, but he just wanted to hang around on the outside and shoot. Part of me was VERY tempted to say something to him about his play, in a positive way, but his father was on the opposing team, so I didn't want to cross that line. His father, on the other hand, was a much better player, as he and his teamate ran the pick and roll on us like John Stockton and Karl Malone (my teammate was also terrible and slow to react on defense, unfortunately). By the end of the game I was exhausted from trying to do way more than I should have, but the overall point is that my teammates play is common among many young players I have played with over recent years.

Why this kid, who had a major size advantage on the other team didn't bother to use it, and that apparently no one taught him to use his size to his advantage, or that shooting at will is not going to win games (we lost both, btw, and I quit after the second) or that working as a TEAM (as could be seen in our opponents) is far more likely to help you win is part of this problem.

However, I do have concerns that Stern's criticisms are more of a political move than wanting to better the game. Stern had no problem with glamorizing "Superstars of the NBA" when it made them huge amounts of money like Jordan. But the NBA's overemphasis on the "Superstar," for years now via individual highlights like dunking, alley-oops, big 3 pointers, etc. has created their own monster. In fact, I see steroids in baseball as a bi-product of MLB's own desperate attempt to keep and win fans. Bonds, and everyone else who may have taken steroids was only doing what MLB wanted because it garnered the league attention. Only when it came back to nip them in the bud do we suddenly see a backlash.

One could argue that Jordan may have been detrimental to the NBA's image and future because since he entered the league (although we know there were big stars before him) young people have come to see being Jordan as the ONLY path to success. To see that the other components of that team were maybe equal in value is blasphemy to many because Jordan was the star. In some ways, I can't blame young people because in the end the reason you want to be "The Next Jordan" is because of all of the money and fame that comes with it. They are just trying to get what they are told by society is what they are supposed to want.

But Stern now has been trying to find ways to get rid of the knock on the NBA which, in my view, can often be attributed to racial and cultural conflicts in America that become exposed. And the NBA DEFINITELY does not like this, because it means losses in revenue. However, with the NBA's glorification of Jordan and his style of play they let it into their house, and now they want to just keep parts of it, particularly those that are most "safe". He wants his cake and to eat it to. I'm not saying I'm anti-Jordan, but the NBA the NFL and MLB, like many large businesses are so desperate to raise profits and so optimistic that they will always over-promote whatever the latest thing is without thinking about the potential consequences. This is a very American thing (although we are not always alone in having such optimism), and in the end they have no one to blame but themselves.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
BasketballJones
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6/9/2006  11:55 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. This is a system that has brought us stellar performers... Team players and winners such as Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Jerome James, and Eddy Curry. Guys who care about the game and put team before self.

Blaming the sneaker companies is a cop out. As I see it, kids need sneakers. If Mr. Stern is not careful, he may damage the system, and soon we'll find that all our sneakers are being made in China and Malaysia by underage children, and prisoners.


[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 06-09-2006 23:56]
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Nalod
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6/10/2006  1:06 PM
They why is it that the NBA does continue to draft and play those that are fundamentally challanged? And pay them?

Lets cut thru the crap here and get down to the tacks.

NBA in the 1950s and early 60's was mostly white due to the college system and segregation. By the 80s the league was majority black players whom were "superior athletes" accordoing to popular stereotypes. The system became more about crazy athletic abiilty. Dominique Wilkens, Thompson, Dr. J and early Jordan were not polished fundamentally but could jump and run better than most. In contrast you had Larry Bird. Once in a while a Paul Westphal would appear and make the "all honky team". Annual list of white players who played like black!

enter the Yugoslaves of the early 90s. A race of men who are rather large and turn out some good ball players considering the size. Playing against other Euros the group was fed on young talented players who were not as athletic as the black American so that game grew and fed off fundamentals. Sure we laughed as the "soft" 7 footers were not banging like our Oakleys and Malones, but they were playing to their strenths. Our Players were told to hit the gyme and lift! Remember when college kids were skinny? now the high school player is a monster! One reason we did not have Higher Schoolers jumping right to the pros enmass was they were physically developed as men to compete.

We have gone the extreme looking for the athletic freak. The Mcgrady's, Lebrons, and Wades are still stars but we are not developing enough fundamentally strong players. But Europe is, and what PHX is teaching us is the right players in the right system can succeed. And they need not be the "best" player to do so.

Now we see the genetic blend of a Diaw and Parker, who blend the athletic and the fundamental and are succeeding. The Dirks are starting to evolve even more as 7 footers are able to dribble and shoot in Europe, where here we train them to be a Shaq like force.

The Darious Miles players, who posses great athletic ability but lacks certain fundamentals are not the benchmarks any more. Its the Manu Ginobli-AK47 type who can shoot and play defense.

Its not the sneaker company, becasue they will market to who will buy the shoes.

Some players do adopt their game. Larry Johnson was able to survive and be effective after he lost his hops based on learing the footwork of posting up and refining an outside shot. Mcgrady will fall apart if he does not adapt due to his bad back. Marbury with any chronic injury will not succeed because his game is based on beating with his strenght and quickness. Nash has a degenerative back problem and is not as fast as he used to be but is more effective in other areas.

Allan houstan stregnth was his strong fundamentals and it was thought that he could play longer if he stayed reasonably healthy. Need them wheels.

Shaq needs to fix his free thow problem. Its a big problem and may cost him his 4th ring. Older players must improve in other areas as they lose some skills due to wear and tear. Penny hardaway faded quick when his injuries slowed him, but Dr. J and Jordan got better as they developed other parts of the game and became better passers, shooter and leaders.

The future will be a blend of who works hard and can combine the natural talent with fundamentals. The Darious Miles type player will not get a free ride, but the Lebrons who take it a level or two higher can.

Ariza was a perfect example of great prowess on the ball and posses much abilty but did not know what to do with the ball.

hence, Getting rid of Larry is a mistake..........He is still teaching.

The
knicks1248
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6/10/2006  1:47 PM
Posted by Nalod:

They why is it that the NBA does continue to draft and play those that are fundamentally challanged? And pay them?

Lets cut thru the crap here and get down to the tacks.

NBA in the 1950s and early 60's was mostly white due to the college system and segregation. By the 80s the league was majority black players whom were "superior athletes" accordoing to popular stereotypes. The system became more about crazy athletic abiilty. Dominique Wilkens, Thompson, Dr. J and early Jordan were not polished fundamentally but could jump and run better than most. In contrast you had Larry Bird. Once in a while a Paul Westphal would appear and make the "all honky team". Annual list of white players who played like black!

enter the Yugoslaves of the early 90s. A race of men who are rather large and turn out some good ball players considering the size. Playing against other Euros the group was fed on young talented players who were not as athletic as the black American so that game grew and fed off fundamentals. Sure we laughed as the "soft" 7 footers were not banging like our Oakleys and Malones, but they were playing to their strenths. Our Players were told to hit the gyme and lift! Remember when college kids were skinny? now the high school player is a monster! One reason we did not have Higher Schoolers jumping right to the pros enmass was they were physically developed as men to compete.

We have gone the extreme looking for the athletic freak. The Mcgrady's, Lebrons, and Wades are still stars but we are not developing enough fundamentally strong players. But Europe is, and what PHX is teaching us is the right players in the right system can succeed. And they need not be the "best" player to do so.

Now we see the genetic blend of a Diaw and Parker, who blend the athletic and the fundamental and are succeeding. The Dirks are starting to evolve even more as 7 footers are able to dribble and shoot in Europe, where here we train them to be a Shaq like force.

The Darious Miles players, who posses great athletic ability but lacks certain fundamentals are not the benchmarks any more. Its the Manu Ginobli-AK47 type who can shoot and play defense.

Its not the sneaker company, becasue they will market to who will buy the shoes.

Some players do adopt their game. Larry Johnson was able to survive and be effective after he lost his hops based on learing the footwork of posting up and refining an outside shot. Mcgrady will fall apart if he does not adapt due to his bad back. Marbury with any chronic injury will not succeed because his game is based on beating with his strenght and quickness. Nash has a degenerative back problem and is not as fast as he used to be but is more effective in other areas.

Allan houstan stregnth was his strong fundamentals and it was thought that he could play longer if he stayed reasonably healthy. Need them wheels.

Shaq needs to fix his free thow problem. Its a big problem and may cost him his 4th ring. Older players must improve in other areas as they lose some skills due to wear and tear. Penny hardaway faded quick when his injuries slowed him, but Dr. J and Jordan got better as they developed other parts of the game and became better passers, shooter and leaders.

The future will be a blend of who works hard and can combine the natural talent with fundamentals. The Darious Miles type player will not get a free ride, but the Lebrons who take it a level or two higher can.

Ariza was a perfect example of great prowess on the ball and posses much abilty but did not know what to do with the ball.

hence, Getting rid of Larry is a mistake..........He is still teaching.

The

Couldn't said it any better.
The one thing thats becoming very obvious and I'll use Anothny mason as a example. Despite what skills you posses in your prime, it only takes one season for a player to fall of the basketball map, and be totally forgotten. I haven't seen one player who sat out a year becuase no one wanted him, then come back the following year.

ES
Marv
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6/10/2006  6:39 PM
interesting points.

the development of young players was hurt because hey bought too much into trying to be like mike?

maybe so. because his flash was predicated on his mastery of the fundamentals. and a lot of guys who followed him went after the flash without the fundamentals.

but what accounts for him becoming as world-wide famous as he did? i's say a combination of the championships , the charisma and the marketing. does he become mj without all the rings? i don't think so. and the guy knew how to smile for a camera, had that deep voice and could combine the swagger of the earring and the shaved head with the boardroom suits. and certainly maxed his endorsement opportunities.

and remember it took him a few years to mature into his game and into his confident off-court persona.

i say lebron and wade could both get there. kobe would have if he hadn't made himself so unlikable.

and as far as the development of young players in general - things happen in cycles. things won't be stuck here forever.
PresIke
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6/10/2006  8:05 PM
The Darious Miles players, who posses great athletic ability but lacks certain fundamentals are not the benchmarks any more. Its the Manu Ginobli-AK47 type who can shoot and play defense.

Nalod, on some level I believe you are correct, but there is still the infatuation with "freak" athletes with little skill, and the hope that they will some day become good at something that uses that ability to their team's benefit. The other reality, which I was also outlining, is that most kids coming out of America into the NBA are good athletes but lacking the skills.

I think that reality, as you suggested, is a direct result of players playing to their immediate strengths, and maybe over depending upon them. With the overemphasis and glorification of the highly athletic style of basketball the fundamentals, which will seem boring to a young person, are bound to get lost in the equation.

Like you also said, many of the great players of the past have learned to develop other parts of their game. Jordan did that as well, later in his career where he developed a post game and that great turn around jumper, while still being able to beat some people off the dribble.
Shaq needs to fix his free thow problem.

That, my friend, is highly unlikely at this point I think, but it didn't keep him from winning 3 titles with the Lakers. Some players will never get over old habits, but Shaq knows his strengths and plays to them. I'm not so sure most big kids in the USA are looking to imitate Shaq either. In fact, like the bigger kid I played with the other day, most are INFACTUATED with 3 point shooting more so than posting up. Most of the big men that come into the NBA have VERY LITTLE game down low, which is why the Knicks were so interested in Curry, because he appeared to be one of the few big men who has a post game. Post players are very valuable, and for the most part can really make their team better if they play smart. Duncan, Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Russel, etc. all played on highly successful teams for a reason. Their ability to dominate the post against most competition opened up the game for every one else. Sure players like Nowitzki are good to model, but if you have REAL size I see nothing wrong with learning a post game.

[Edited by - PresIke on 06-10-2006 8:06 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Killa4luv
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6/10/2006  10:57 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. This is a system that has brought us stellar performers... Team players and winners such as Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Jerome James, and Eddy Curry. Guys who care about the game and put team before self.

Blaming the sneaker companies is a cop out. As I see it, kids need sneakers. If Mr. Stern is not careful, he may damage the system, and soon we'll find that all our sneakers are being made in China and Malaysia by underage children, and prisoners.


[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 06-09-2006 23:56]

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simrud
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6/10/2006  11:01 PM
I think Stern is just doing what he always does, give the public what it wants to hear. Everybody likes to talk about how homegrown players are not as good as they used to be. So he just repeats the sentiment everyone wants to hear.

In reality the game is becoming more and more global, and why exactly should there be more pro calibur ball players in America than in the rest of the world? Look at a game like hockey, which is plaed all over the world, or soccer, every national league has almost as many international players as their own.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Stern dismayed by NBA player development system

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