Karl speaks out against Knicks
BY GREG LOGAN
Newsday Staff Writer

June 9, 2006

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Knicks are making a $40-million mistake if they fire Larry Brown without giving him the time and the support he needs to turn the team around. That's the view of Nuggets coach George Karl, who yesterday blamed Knicks president Isiah Thomas for taking a "confrontational" position against the coach he hired.

As a fellow North Carolina alum, Karl is one of Brown's longtime friends in the NBA. When he saw Brown yesterday at the NBA pre-draft camp, Karl said, "I gave him a hug."

Today is the last day of double-session workouts at Disney World, but Brown returned home after yesterday's morning workout. He had no communication with Thomas, who learned of Brown's plans through news reports. The Knicks might make an issue of Brown's early departure because he never sought permission.

"I'm on my way home," Brown said. "I can tell you everything about [all the draft prospects]. So, I'm going to be with my family."

As he walked to his car, Brown was accompanied by 76ers president Billy King. Referring to his wife, Brown said, "Shelly won't let me go alone. She's afraid I might jump off a cliff. She told Billy to take care of me."

NBA people have watched the soap opera unfolding in New York with fascination, but Karl is the first to openly criticize reports that Knicks owner James Dolan is considering firing Brown or attempting to buy out the remaining four years of his contract worth $40 million.

"I'm very saddened by it," said Karl, who last season said he would love to coach the Knicks one day. "My whole thing is it looks like a lose, lose, lose, lose for basketball, for coaching, for an organization, for a city, for the tradition, and I hate that."

Although the Knicks had a 23-59 record, tying the franchise record for losses in a season, Karl said it's possible to build for success while losing. He cited the pressure of the Knicks' league-record $125-million payroll as a major contributing factor to tension within the organization.

"I don't care how rich you are, no one's happy losing millions," Karl said. "But I think more management people have got to understand that it's your job to manage and motivate and energize your coach. We make mistakes. We've got paranoia. We get depressed.

"In those moments, I think good organizations try to help their coach through it instead of becoming an adversary position or confrontational position ...

"Now, I don't know Isiah from Adam. And so, I don't know what's going on there other than I think coaches need an ally in this league."

Anyone aware of Brown's long record of success knows he often demands sweeping personnel changes, but the Knicks have decided they would be too costly. Karl said no coach gets everything on his wish list, but he added, "When you hire a coach and give Larry the contract you give him, you've got to be responsive to his desires. Sometimes, it does take more than a year."

Brown declined to discuss Karl's comments, saying, "I'm not getting into this. I've got a good job, and I do the best I can and we'll move on."

Thomas also declined to comment yesterday on Karl's remarks.

Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.

"But I think more management people have got to understand that it's your job to manage and motivate and energize your coach. We make mistakes. We've got paranoia. We get depressed.

So even Karl thinks Brown is a pyscho but a loveable one.

I guess the pity party is on for Brown and the UNC alums. I guess Brown somehow in his twisted mind feels betrayed by Thomas because he won't defend him against Dolan. No mention by Karl that at every step during the season Larry time after time tried to get Thomas fire. I guess Thomas must now come to the aid of Brown because he is a paranoid and depressed individual. That's sad on so many levels. Hell why not I guess they are in Orlando, so everyone expects a Disney type of moment. Classic Bully finally gets punch in the stomach and begins to cry and now everyone who was terrorize has to feel pity on him. Aww.. Isiah won't speak to me, so I am going home. What's next? Group hugs for Brown?

[Edited by - pharzeone on 06-09-2006 12:08 AM]

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by Pharzeone:

"But I think more management people have got to understand that it's your job to manage and motivate and energize your coach. We make mistakes. We've got paranoia. We get depressed.

So even Karl thinks Brown is a pyscho but a loveable one.

I guess the pity party is on for Brown and the UNC alums. I guess Brown somehow in his twisted mind feels betrayed by Thomas because he won't defend him against Dolan. No mention by Karl that at every step during the season Larry time after time tried to get Thomas fire. I guess Thomas must now come to the aid of Brown because he is a paranoid and depressed individual. That's sad on so many levels. Hell why not I guess they are in Orlando, so everyone expects a Disney type of moment. Classic Bully finally gets punch in the stomach and begins to cry and now everyone who was terrorize has to feel pity on him. Aww.. Isiah won't speak to me, so I am going home. What's next? Group hugs for Brown?

something to chew on...dolan is in ny, lb is back in ny, and isiah is in orlando...

According to my MSG friend, Dolan and many MSG and Cablevision execs are so pissed at Brown it is beyond patch up job. According to him, Thomas was Brown's biggest supporter in the organization but loyalty was only answered by numerous attempts at backstabbing.

Honestly, if anyone chooses Knicks management over Brown then your psycho. Period, plain and simple.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Honestly, if anyone chooses Knicks management over Brown then your psycho. Period, plain and simple.

who are you refering to when you say Knicks management? Dolan? Isiah? Mills? someone just said Isiah was Brown's biggest supporter but Dolan is pissed. also, all Brown did was trash the roster he either A) knew he had coming in or B) supposedly approved of the trades for (he called Curry the franchise player, praised Jalen after his first game saying his ball movement was exactly what the team needed, said Francis was a great player and on his "short list of guys he wanted"). Isiah has to work with Brown, but Brown also has to work with Isiah (and the players - how about working with the players instead of belittling them or teaching them defense instead of belittling them? just a thought). It didn't work. Dolan chose sides.

frankly, any sympathy for Brown is a joke. he's getting paid by, what, at least two teams NOT to coach at this point. he's made a career out of embarassing players and organizations. he has the name Next Town Brown for a reason, people. how is it that the Pistons fired Brown after two straight Finals while he was recovering from surgery and it was a smart move and we fire him after the worst season in Knicks history despite a talented roster and its a dumb move? it didn't work. Brown was starting to pull his "oh, I've got acid reflux, can't coach, no wait, I'm fine, it's just the flu" towards the end of the season. he was going to try to play the health card to get roster control.

Brown's a backstabbing meglomaniac. at least Zeke stabs you in the front. The thing that pisses me off the most about Brown is this innocent, chummy old man bullsh!t. do people really buy this crap? ask Bill Davidson what he thinks of Brown. I know all the UNC guys like him and that's awesome. they can have him. George Karl thinks coaches need more sympathy? boo hoo. I seem to remember him losing in the world games with a fantastic roster and the entire team wanting to kill him after three weeks. so he and Brown DO have something in common - they're self-righteous a-holes who can't understand why anyone would ever have a problem with their behavior.




[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-09-2006 02:38 AM]

geeze... I sure do wish LB would embarrass the Knicks like he embarrased the Pistons, 76ers and Pacers. We could us some of that.

My favorite part is when they say a roster overhaul would be too costly. This is from an org that addded close to $250mm in future payroll since Isiah has been here. Now THATS funny.

Was Isiah stabbing in the front when Chaney was led out by security? When he fired Dick Helm? Every move Isiah has made has been behind the back. The only time I think he was ever up front with anyone was when he called KVH over the all star break and said they had a deal on the table and would probably take it.

And where does this notion of sympathy for Brown come from? Who cares? I just want at least one guy in the organization (Malik Rose doesnt count) that has an ounce of history of winning at this level.

Why are they pissed at him? Cuz Larry exposed them for the idiots they are.

Thats his diva act, to show up what morons put togther this squad!

Management is too hung up on trying to trick Larry rather than do whats right for the organization. Fire him if you must, but playing games to spite larry is stupid.

He is not taking the money and running. he is taking the money that Dolan and Isiah all but sucked his bone to take last summer while romancing him. All along Isiah and Dolan are saying they will get the players and the players should listen.

Im not saying Larry is an angel, but this management is petty, vindictive, short sighted, and generally are out to cover their own butts!

And Isiah is one of them!

Larry should not have taken this job, but he was made promises that were not kept. He can keep his money.

Im sure the team will do better this year with or without Larry.

But what does that leave us? IM sure the pro management, pro Isiah, Anti Larry guys are going to be dancing in the streets with 35 wins and Marbury leading us to a 10th place finish in the east! Then what, more starphuching!

With Larry you had a chance to clean it up and do it right.

He made management look bad. That is his crime.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Honestly, if anyone chooses Knicks management over Brown then your psycho. Period, plain and simple.

who are you refering to when you say Knicks management? Dolan? Isiah? Mills? someone just said Isiah was Brown's biggest supporter but Dolan is pissed. also, all Brown did was trash the roster he either A) knew he had coming in or B) supposedly approved of the trades for (he called Curry the franchise player, praised Jalen after his first game saying his ball movement was exactly what the team needed, said Francis was a great player and on his "short list of guys he wanted"). Isiah has to work with Brown, but Brown also has to work with Isiah (and the players - how about working with the players instead of belittling them or teaching them defense instead of belittling them? just a thought). It didn't work. Dolan chose sides.

frankly, any sympathy for Brown is a joke. he's getting paid by, what, at least two teams NOT to coach at this point. he's made a career out of embarassing players and organizations. he has the name Next Town Brown for a reason, people. how is it that the Pistons fired Brown after two straight Finals while he was recovering from surgery and it was a smart move and we fire him after the worst season in Knicks history despite a talented roster and its a dumb move? it didn't work. Brown was starting to pull his "oh, I've got acid reflux, can't coach, no wait, I'm fine, it's just the flu" towards the end of the season. he was going to try to play the health card to get roster control.

Brown's a backstabbing meglomaniac. at least Zeke stabs you in the front. The thing that pisses me off the most about Brown is this innocent, chummy old man bullsh!t. do people really buy this crap? ask Bill Davidson what he thinks of Brown. I know all the UNC guys like him and that's awesome. they can have him. George Karl thinks coaches need more sympathy? boo hoo. I seem to remember him losing in the world games with a fantastic roster and the entire team wanting to kill him after three weeks. so he and Brown DO have something in common - they're self-righteous a-holes who can't understand why anyone would ever have a problem with their behavior.




[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-09-2006 02:38 AM]

Great Post!

what if it played out something like this: (this week on all dj's children...)

- lb needs to be a dictator and needs to be in control of everything. that's how he's always been.

- when lb was hired, he thought he would be able to do whatever he wanted but certain things were "suggested." like crawford should start at point with marbury at sg. or this guy should start here or there, etc.

- so indication #1 that he wasn't going to do what isiah told him was not starting crawford and dnp'ing the first round pick. why? b/c he wants the team to give him carte blanche in his coaching.

- all the while, isiah doesn't know why lb is doing this and is probably voicing this to the players. ( i.e. steph: "isiah, what's up with coach, why is he doing this?" isiah: "i don't know man, i don't know why he's doing it"). the result of this, the players and isiah are together, and lb is viewed as the enemy.

- so lb, sensing he really doesn't have full control of the team decided to talk bad about the roster and criticize those that weren't on his side. (on a side note, crawford played everything politically correct, remaining friends with isiah and steph, but also doing what lb wanted)

- all the while, isiah is reporting back to mills and dolan that lb is sabotaging the team (which theoretically, he is. he's pretty much giving a full F YOU to management)

so at the end of the day, you have dolan, isiah, and the players on one side, with lb on the other.

team's position: "hey, we're paying you $10 mil to coach this team. you said you were going to do this but didn't. we asked you to play certain guys or we're committed to the youth and don't like how you handled them. what's your problem?"

lb's position: "hey, when you hire a coach like me, you have to let me do what i want. you can't try to make me compromise on certain things b/c that's not me. i've coached 30 years, i've coached the same way and most importantly, i win, that's why you gave me $50 mil. you call me up and say: "larry, we love what you did in philly and eveywhere else. come and do that for us". sure, i'm here and i'm going to fix it but now you want to handcuff me from doing what i want? i'm not a yes man. you want to save the knicks or not? that's what i do. and i'm going to do what i want and that way wins. you said it was my team so let me coach it the way i want to and if certain players don't fit, i want them gone."

so it was a constant struggle for control of the team. isiah had a view and a direction but he ultimately made a BAD business decision hiring lb. but that's just another example of their ineptitude b/c it's been nothing but bad business decisions for a while.

lb is lb.
marbury is marbury.
jerome james is jerome james.

you have to evaluate what you're doing before hiring or bringing in these people. if you're going to hire lb (just like with riles or pjax), you get out of his way and let him do what he wants. otherwise there's no point in hiring him (or riles or pjax), especially in a situation like ours. they are not yes-men. lenny was forced to become one so he quit. he wasn't going to put up with it either.

i don't think this is a morals issue, like who's right and who's wrong. i think it's more about the decisions being made to bring certain people in here without any real thought as to the ramifications.

for dolan, isiah, and the players, for THEIR best interest, it's best to fire lb and get themselves a guy that'll do what he's told...aka a yes-man. maybe that's why they're so high on herb. but you see, this doesn't necessarily mean they're going to win b/c dolan, isiah (as an executive), and the players never really won before and may not know what it takes to win.

but for the best interest of the TEAM aka winning, then you give the keys to lb and let him drive the car...

otherwise you get rid of EVERYBODY and start fresh.

the players are just pawns in this. they don't know anything. it's really about who is going to fix this and who's going to have their way. isiah has a huge ego. so does lb. both of them are aholes. both of them are not nice people. one is smooth and charismatic. the other is brash and candid. one has never won as an executive and one has won everywhere he's been. and neither like to play with others.

these are YOUR new york knicks...

of course, i'm just thinking out loud here...

Posted by McK1:

Posted by rvhoss:



Actions speak louder than words fish...and his actions are he is taking the money and running.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 06-09-2006 09:50 AM]

his actions say he and Isiah are miles apart on team philosophy.

the idea that they could work together was met with much skepticism prior to the season. Most just thought it was the hating media.

Isiah's focus is has and always will be proving he is smarter than his contemporaries. Thats why we have Mo Taylor, Curry, Crawford, Jerome, Marbury, Francis and under this concept Frye.

before somebody spouts off about Frye being on the list let me explain: the need for a leader at point guard [and move Steph at the least off the ball] was clearly evident after the 04-05 season. At the top of last years draft was Paul Williams and Felton. No attempt to trade up was made. At the time of the draft we had Sweets taylor Rose all at the 4. At guard Marbury and Crawford both non-leaders, both shoot first. Utah traded up using the 6 and a late first rounder. Its speculative but would the 8 and the 21 been enough to trump Utah's offer?

at pick 3, Paul Williams and Felton all available and all 3 would've raised the level of leadership and competitiveness on this team and gave Larry a "head" out there.

Isiah is always steps behind his own moves. He's always making bad deals and bad signings, then 6 months later makes the same move over again because he's so smart. We have Marbury, Francis, Crawford and Nate, and somehow we have a need at PG. In one trade deadline he adds Mo Taylor and Malik Rose, both with at least 2 years left. Then he add Lee and Frye. Then we need a center so he signs Big Snacks. Then we add Curry and Antonio. Nothing he does makes sense from one move to the next

Posted by djsunyc:

what if it played out something like this: (this week on all dj's children...)

- lb needs to be a dictator and needs to be in control of everything. that's how he's always been.

- when lb was hired, he thought he would be able to do whatever he wanted but certain things were "suggested." like crawford should start at point with marbury at sg. or this guy should start here or there, etc.

- so indication #1 that he wasn't going to do what isiah told him was not starting crawford and dnp'ing the first round pick. why? b/c he wants the team to give him carte blanche in his coaching.

- all the while, isiah doesn't know why lb is doing this and is probably voicing this to the players. ( i.e. steph: "isiah, what's up with coach, why is he doing this?" isiah: "i don't know man, i don't know why he's doing it"). the result of this, the players and isiah are together, and lb is viewed as the enemy.

- so lb, sensing he really doesn't have full control of the team decided to talk bad about the roster and criticize those that weren't on his side. (on a side note, crawford played everything politically correct, remaining friends with isiah and steph, but also doing what lb wanted)

- all the while, isiah is reporting back to mills and dolan that lb is sabotaging the team (which theoretically, he is. he's pretty much giving a full F YOU to management)

so at the end of the day, you have dolan, isiah, and the players on one side, with lb on the other.

team's position: "hey, we're paying you $10 mil to coach this team. you said you were going to do this but didn't. we asked you to play certain guys or we're committed to the youth and don't like how you handled them. what's your problem?"

lb's position: "hey, when you hire a coach like me, you have to let me do what i want. you can't try to make me compromise on certain things b/c that's not me. i've coached 30 years, i've coached the same way and most importantly, i win, that's why you gave me $50 mil. you call me up and say: "larry, we love what you did in philly and eveywhere else. come and do that for us". sure, i'm here and i'm going to fix it but now you want to handcuff me from doing what i want? i'm not a yes man. you want to save the knicks or not? that's what i do. and i'm going to do what i want and that way wins. you said it was my team so let me coach it the way i want to and if certain players don't fit, i want them gone."

so it was a constant struggle for control of the team. isiah had a view and a direction but he ultimately made a BAD business decision hiring lb. but that's just another example of their ineptitude b/c it's been nothing but bad business decisions for a while.

lb is lb.
marbury is marbury.
jerome james is jerome james.

you have to evaluate what you're doing before hiring or bringing in these people. if you're going to hire lb (just like with riles or pjax), you get out of his way and let him do what he wants. otherwise there's no point in hiring him (or riles or pjax), especially in a situation like ours. they are not yes-men. lenny was forced to become one so he quit. he wasn't going to put up with it either.

i don't think this is a morals issue, like who's right and who's wrong. i think it's more about the decisions being made to bring certain people in here without any real thought as to the ramifications.

for dolan, isiah, and the players, for THEIR best interest, it's best to fire lb and get themselves a guy that'll do what he's told...aka a yes-man. maybe that's why they're so high on herb. but you see, this doesn't necessarily mean they're going to win b/c dolan, isiah (as an executive), and the players never really won before and may not know what it takes to win.

but for the best interest of the TEAM aka winning, then you give the keys to lb and let him drive the car...

otherwise you get rid of EVERYBODY and start fresh.

the players are just pawns in this. they don't know anything. it's really about who is going to fix this and who's going to have their way. isiah has a huge ego. so does lb. both of them are aholes. both of them are not nice people. one is smooth and charismatic. the other is brash and candid. one has never won as an executive and one has won everywhere he's been. and neither like to play with others.

these are YOUR new york knicks...

of course, i'm just thinking out loud here...

Good post DJ.