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Its Enough!
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Knicksfan
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5/22/2006  7:07 PM
This is ridiculous. Each person that is related to this whole mess doesn't deserve to be relater to any other sports organization. THis goes beyond sad. When you are a fan of the New York Knicks and you have to stand all this nonsense, things get to a point were you just had enough.

You have the Knicks players thay don't care to listen to the coach and give a good effort on the court. We have no professionals on this roster. Being in the NBA should be a priviledge, and these players act like they deserve everything. Yeah, they are right, they deserve to be booed every time.

Lies, lies and more lies. Thats whats all about in this pathetic triangle of Dolan, Thomas and Brown. One knows nothing about basketball, signs every check that bring more contracts and less real players. The next one has no idea what a real player is, and is proved by all the trades he has done in this organization. He keeps bringing "Me-First" players, talks about the talent we have and hides when they prove to be nothing close to a team. And lets not talk about that draft pick that the Bulls have. The other only seems to care about himself, and doesn't care if he screws his "beloved" team in the process. How can he have such a sorry season with so much talent? How can a coach critizice his players as much as he does and then expect them to perform?

Im tired of all this. Sports aren't supposed to create this type of stories. And how can a fan have hope that all this mess can be solved when everyone is just pulling for their side and no one seems to have an idea on how to fix this. Most of our players are "Me-first" players with big contracts. Who would want them? We keep bringing more terrible contracts and more washed-up players. We have a coach, but for how long? And how can we trust that he is doing his best to better the Knicks when there are so many stories about him only caring about him and sabotaging the team? And how can we trust that Thomas will make better trades down the line, bringing real players and not crybabies? When will anyone give the Knicks a good identity, and not the embarrasment that they are right now?

I can't stand this....
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holfresh
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5/22/2006  7:33 PM

As I just stated in another thread, it's even more difficult watching the playoffs and see everyone else have their shet together and give it their all..Knowing we have all this drama and we have to cater to all these divas, and the most they can muster is 23 victories...I mean really, does anyone on this frigging team or in the organization have any god damn pride...Does anyone have any balls whatsoever...At what point does someone step up and say enough, lets do what we have to do to win a few games...I mean if Chicago can do it, why can't we...What the hell is our malfunction...Anyone????

Nalod
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5/22/2006  7:40 PM
Posted by holfresh:


As I just stated in another thread, it's even more difficult watching the playoffs and see everyone else have their shet together and give it their all..Knowing we have all this drama and we have to cater to all these divas, and the most they can muster is 23 victories...I mean really, does anyone on this frigging team or in the organization have any god damn pride...Does anyone have any balls whatsoever...At what point does someone step up and say enough, lets do what we have to do to win a few games...I mean if Chicago can do it, why can't we...What the hell is our malfunction...Anyone????



One man preached to play defense. One man preached to put forth more effort. One man pleads with his GM to get him real men. On man who sat on the bench about every night with a cathiter stuck in him while his 123 million dollar roster cowered under being coached and another took it personal.

The other man hid in the tunnel if he even showed up at all.

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5/22/2006  8:35 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by holfresh:


As I just stated in another thread, it's even more difficult watching the playoffs and see everyone else have their shet together and give it their all..Knowing we have all this drama and we have to cater to all these divas, and the most they can muster is 23 victories...I mean really, does anyone on this frigging team or in the organization have any god damn pride...Does anyone have any balls whatsoever...At what point does someone step up and say enough, lets do what we have to do to win a few games...I mean if Chicago can do it, why can't we...What the hell is our malfunction...Anyone????



One man preached to play defense. One man preached to put forth more effort. One man pleads with his GM to get him real men. On man who sat on the bench about every night with a cathiter stuck in him while his 123 million dollar roster cowered under being coached and another took it personal.

The other man hid in the tunnel if he even showed up at all.



But Nalod, this is the same guy thats says he doesn't coach effort...This is the same guy that want to blow out the cap further with KMart who is hurt and cant play a full season at this point...If it was all about coaching you would have me at hello...But this guy is a diva and has his own personal agenda...We can debate who is at fault for JRose and Francis til the cows come home...They both had a hand in it and it's sad...I trust Brown less making roster decisions than I do Isiah...None can be trusted...There are a few players here who needs direction with no one to give it to them...Not even Brown...It's a real sad situation...

Bippity10
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5/23/2006  9:18 AM
How many teams has Brown turned around?

Isiah?
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Nalod
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5/23/2006  9:23 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by holfresh:


As I just stated in another thread, it's even more difficult watching the playoffs and see everyone else have their shet together and give it their all..Knowing we have all this drama and we have to cater to all these divas, and the most they can muster is 23 victories...I mean really, does anyone on this frigging team or in the organization have any god damn pride...Does anyone have any balls whatsoever...At what point does someone step up and say enough, lets do what we have to do to win a few games...I mean if Chicago can do it, why can't we...What the hell is our malfunction...Anyone????



One man preached to play defense. One man preached to put forth more effort. One man pleads with his GM to get him real men. On man who sat on the bench about every night with a cathiter stuck in him while his 123 million dollar roster cowered under being coached and another took it personal.

The other man hid in the tunnel if he even showed up at all.



But Nalod, this is the same guy thats says he doesn't coach effort...This is the same guy that want to blow out the cap further with KMart who is hurt and cant play a full season at this point...If it was all about coaching you would have me at hello...But this guy is a diva and has his own personal agenda...We can debate who is at fault for JRose and Francis til the cows come home...They both had a hand in it and it's sad...I trust Brown less making roster decisions than I do Isiah...None can be trusted...There are a few players here who needs direction with no one to give it to them...Not even Brown...It's a real sad situation...


Who is concerned about the cap? And who says Brown blows out the cap?

Brown has made only two clear roster choices in Ridding Reezy and adding Qdog.

Do I think Having brown is automatic for Radcliff? Lynch? Snow? Hell no, And its ok for Isiah to say no to those guys, but there are plenty of other moves that can be made "TOGETHER".

I don't even advocate firing Isiah.

Just Dump Marbury. Thats All. Take your lumps like a man and move on. Remove the infection.

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5/23/2006  1:53 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

How many teams has Brown turned around?

Isiah?



Looking at the playoffs, we see teams play with heart and with a winning agenda..Everyone seems to be on the same page and is giving effort...Larry Brown mind games all year killed any spirit this team could have carried them this past season...This was a power play by Brown..He wants full control before he exerts his coaching genuis...I have no interest in ulterior motives...I just want to coach who wants to win games...Brown wants everyone to know he is the man in control...This thread says it all...Enough already...I don't even want to see if he can change and try to do what's right...Please no more agendas, just basketball...We need to find out if there is talent in this group...We don't need more games where the entire roster gets burn in every game...I'm fully behind Dolan with this one...He did everything but try to win the last year...Enough...



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-23-2006 1:54 PM]
Bippity10
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5/23/2006  4:00 PM
Holfresh obviously you can't get past your sheer anger. It was just a question. Who has the agenda?
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holfresh
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5/23/2006  6:44 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Holfresh obviously you can't get past your sheer anger. It was just a question. Who has the agenda?


Bip you and I have traveled this road many times before...Just tell me one thing...Did Larry Brown do all he can do to win every game last year...

If the answer is no, then you have your answer for the agenda question...



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-23-2006 7:08 PM]
EnySpree
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5/23/2006  7:43 PM
I like the "remove the infection" statement.


Brown is an infection. Marbs is an infection. Ok cool.

Now its time to settle down and lay down the foundation. Begin anew.
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Bippity10
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5/24/2006  9:15 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:

Holfresh obviously you can't get past your sheer anger. It was just a question. Who has the agenda?


Bip you and I have traveled this road many times before...Just tell me one thing...Did Larry Brown do all he can do to win every game last year...

If the answer is no, then you have your answer for the agenda question...



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-23-2006 7:08 PM]


The answer is unequivocally no. What does that have to do with my question?
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Knicksfan
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5/24/2006  9:17 AM
Begin anew.

I like that! That looks so great right now.

When Isiah signed Larry Brown, I imagined that things could get difficult for the team since its a coach with one philosophy and a roster with a different one. But I thought that if anyone could've worked it out, it was Brown. But with all his critizism of players and his lineup changes, he just killed that possibility. Consider this: we had a better roster talent-wise than last season, yet we got worse results. Im not saying this is all on Brown, but he is definitely part of the big problem, and we can either give him another chance or simply fire him...
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5/24/2006  9:19 AM
I asked the question earlier this year. Is it more likely that LB starts people in their home towns because he is senile or because he is trying to show that no one has earned a starting position. Some people simply answered the question with their opinions. Others, despite the fact that I had given no opinion of my own called me an LB lover.

My point is that some people are so driven by their hatred and need to find someone responsible for this mess that that is their only focus, and they ignore what is really going on. Instead of reading what people write and dealing with the issue presented, they read one sentence and then see what they want to see. Jumping to conclusions that a person has a point of view just based on one or two sentences of a post. Holfresh are you one of these people?

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 05-24-2006 09:22 AM]
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Bippity10
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5/24/2006  9:21 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Begin anew.

I like that! That looks so great right now.

When Isiah signed Larry Brown, I imagined that things could get difficult for the team since its a coach with one philosophy and a roster with a different one. But I thought that if anyone could've worked it out, it was Brown. But with all his critizism of players and his lineup changes, he just killed that possibility. Consider this: we had a better roster talent-wise than last season, yet we got worse results. Im not saying this is all on Brown, but he is definitely part of the big problem, and we can either give him another chance or simply fire him...

You have to give LB 100% support and power. Then you are patient and give him time, hopefully turn you around like he did the other franchises he started with. Or you don't have him as coach. It's simple. But instead our management lies somewhere in the middle. In the land of poor decisions.
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holfresh
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5/24/2006  3:07 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I asked the question earlier this year. Is it more likely that LB starts people in their home towns because he is senile or because he is trying to show that no one has earned a starting position. Some people simply answered the question with their opinions. Others, despite the fact that I had given no opinion of my own called me an LB lover.

My point is that some people are so driven by their hatred and need to find someone responsible for this mess that that is their only focus, and they ignore what is really going on. Instead of reading what people write and dealing with the issue presented, they read one sentence and then see what they want to see. Jumping to conclusions that a person has a point of view just based on one or two sentences of a post. Holfresh are you one of these people?

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 05-24-2006 09:22 AM]



Bip I'm really surprised you would even attempt to make a statement like that given our past discussions and in some cases all out brawls...At least give me credit for watching all the games and formulating my opinion based on what I see...Please don't paint a broad brush for me because I don't agree with your opinion...Yes there is Larry hate... But the reason as stated many times here that I don't respect what Larry is doing is because I really believe he has another agenda other than winning ball games...Larry wants control of this organization...Larry wants to call the shots...Bip I don't care where you coached...I have been involved in basketball long enough to know that Larry Brown was not trying to win because of his rotations,the many nights he played 12 players, starting players in their home towns..etc...I can list many more..sheer exhaustion on this topic prevents me from going down that road again...I don't buy your assessment about he wanted to show no one had earned a starting position...Thats bull...That is not why he was brought here, to make sure players earn spots...he was brought here to win basketball games and to teach the young players the nuances of the games to make them better players...He fail miserably at winning and now you want to give him the very thing he sorted for all season long in losing ball games, control...He wanted to show everyone that Isiah had a flawed roster and he would do a better job putting a winning team together...It is inexcusable that he didn't try to win... What was his point in not trying to win games Bip?...How was he trying to better the organization not wining games....As predicted, he attempted a coup and you applaud it, so we will always differ on this topic...Listen I can't imagine another season with Larry Brown's diva act...The players didnt help either, they needed to do their part and they didn't...They needed to be professionals and play hard no matter what...They should not have succumd to Larry's antics and played hard through out the season...But that's my point essentially Bip, why should the players on this team have to overcome the hurdle of Larry Brown's ego and antics as a part of trying to win...Why should they have to put up with the extra shet that Larry brings to the table...It's hard enough trying to bring a young team together to win ball games...Please enough already..



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-24-2006 3:14 PM]
Bippity10
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5/24/2006  3:20 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:

I asked the question earlier this year. Is it more likely that LB starts people in their home towns because he is senile or because he is trying to show that no one has earned a starting position. Some people simply answered the question with their opinions. Others, despite the fact that I had given no opinion of my own called me an LB lover.

My point is that some people are so driven by their hatred and need to find someone responsible for this mess that that is their only focus, and they ignore what is really going on. Instead of reading what people write and dealing with the issue presented, they read one sentence and then see what they want to see. Jumping to conclusions that a person has a point of view just based on one or two sentences of a post. Holfresh are you one of these people?

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 05-24-2006 09:22 AM]



Bip I'm really surprised you would even attempt to make a statement like that given our past discussions and in some cases al out brawls...At least give me credit for watching all the games and formulating my opinion based on what I see...Please don't paint a broad brush for me because I don't agree with your opinion...Yes there is Larry hate... But the reason as stated many times here that I don't respect what Larry is doing is because I really believe he has another agenda other than winning ball games...Larry wants control of this organization...Larry wants to call the shots...Bip I don't care where you coached...I have been involved in basketball long enough to know that Larry Brown was not trying to win because of his rotations,the many nights he played 12 players, starting players in their home towns..etc...I can list many more..sheer exhaustion on this topic prevents me from going down that road again...I don't buy your assessment about he wanted to show no one had earned a starting position...Thats bull...That is not why he was brought here, to make sure players earn spots...he was brought here to win basketball games and to teach the young players the nuances of the games to make them better players...He fail miserably at winning and now you want to give him the very thing he sorted for all season long, control...It is inexcusable that he didn't try to win... What was his point in not trying to win games Bip?...How was he trying to better the organization not wining games....Listen I can't imagine another season with Larry Brown's diva act...The players didnt help either, they needed to do their part and they didn't...They needed to be professionals and play hard no matter what...They should not have succumd to Larry's antics and played hard through out the season...But that's my point essentially Bip, why should the players on this team have to overcome the hurdle of Larry Brown's ego and antics as a part of trying to win...Why should they have to put up with the extra shet that Larry brings to the table...It's hard enough trying to bring a young team together to win ball games...Please enough already..


Holfresh once again you prove the exact point I was trying to make. Not once have I stated what Larry Brown did. I just asked the question, what is more likely? At that point it is up to you to determine your own opinion. Whatever that opinion is, I don't care. I respect it. What I don't respect is guys that consistently call me a Larry lover when they don't read my posts thoroughly.

Personally, I dont' know why he started guys in the home town. I tell what I would have done to give insight but don't try to get in their minds becasue it's only speculation anyway. I just asked the question. But guys like you hop on everytime with the Larry lovin' nonsense and take away from the conversation. And that's why guys like you and me have these silly arguments about the LB situation in which it always narrows down to you saying I am a Larry supporter. Even though to this day you still have no idea what my opinion on the guy is.

It happens on a day to day basis because you don't read the posts. You don't pay attention to the conversation or the questions. You explode at the mere mention of LB. All I'm saying is take a deep breath don't take LB so personally and if you are going to respond to my posts at least read them thoroughly. We love the Knicks. I want whats best for the Knicks. If you hire LB you know what you are getting so stick to it. Or else don't hire him. Simple story. I'm not sad about LB if he gets fired. What I'm sad about is our organization that once again is spinning it's tires. Some here are excited about LB being fired because they think it's progress, when it's really just another turn of the wheel. That's why this bothers me so much. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LB
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holfresh
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5/24/2006  3:24 PM

Where did I call you a Larry Lover in that piece...I have seen you do this with others..Where Bip...You said I was driven because of hate and what I read...I wanted to point out that I do watch the games and have my own opinion....This is pointless...Whatever...

Why are you so fixated on this Larry lover shet...No one said anything about loving Larry and you ramble on for paragraphs about it...Is this a problem you need to speak to Marv about...







[Edited by - holfresh on 05-24-2006 3:28 PM]
Bippity10
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5/24/2006  3:28 PM
Again, I was one of about 3 people on this site that screamed during the offseason when everyone was screaming playoffs. I said LB would not make a difference to who we are. I said it didn't matter who was our coach and that we were going to have to take a step back to go forward. Since I expected this I was not upset when it happened. Mabye that's why I don't share your anger. I knew what I was getting from LB, so I am not shocked when it happened. I've coached malcontents and hate them. I know you have to tear them down or get rid of them. I knew LB would raise hell. He does it everywhere and with our roster that a few of us saw for what it was(everyone else's castoffs) we could see something was brewing. Now don't get me wrong I did not think we were a 23 win team. But I personally am unable to differentiate between 23 wins and 33 wins. It all stinks.

I want LB here so that we can change the direction of the franchise. To me that means ridding of us of every player that is here that we are hoping will be good enough to lead us to an 8th seed. I want it torn down. And I want to follow a proven leader there. To me this year was not about wins. It was about the cultural turnaround that I have screaming for forever. We hired LB for this reason alone. And now because we took a step back we are going to bail on that commitment. So my question is now. What is our direction? What is our plan?

If your response has anything to do with Larry loving I think I may shoot myself. So from your point of view maybe you should call me a Larry lover
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Nalod
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5/24/2006  3:33 PM
Larrys secret plot to control.....
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5/24/2006  3:39 PM
Why don't you guys move on...
Its Enough!

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