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Now do you see what I've been saying about Isiah since Day 1?
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islesfan
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5/17/2006  12:05 AM
The running of this sorry franchise is so ass backward its scary. Isiah does such a poor job putting together one of the most mismatched rosters in the history of the NBA, so bad that he's finished as an NBA executive after he leaves the Garden for good, and they choose to keep the roster and get rid of the only person in the entire organization with any history of success at his job because they think its too difficult to change the roster. It's freaking bizzaro world logic.

It's just another example of Isiah not having the guts to do things the right way just because it's difficult and would take hard work. It's always the easy way out for him. Couldn't force the Raptors owner to give you a stake in the franchise? Ok, I'm out, see ya later. Didn't get the NBA to buy the CBA for it's minor league system? Ok, I'm going to coach the Pacers, see ya later. It's too difficult to tear down the Knicks and rebuild from scratch? Ok, I'm going to make as many splashy moves as I can and hope that something good happens. Now it's too hard to trade the underachieving and overpaid players that he's assembled so let's get rid of the proven winner of a coach. Totally assinine. This should be seen as a total admission that he's done a pitiful job putting together this roster but it won't be.

What some people are saying about this being a win-win situation, with Isiah rumored to take over as coach, is so completely misguided. How can having a desperate person looking to keep surviving long enough to save his job and the big paycheck that comes with it, be a good thing for the long term future of this franchise? He's already dug a huge hole that the Knicks will still be trying to dig out from long after he's gone, so why give him the opportunity to dig the hole even deeper? If your job status was based on short term success, would you be willing to mortgage the future? That's going to be Isiah's decision if he becomes coach and is there any doubt about what he'll do? And I don't mean trading away Frye, Lee or Nate. He's tied to them with his comments and can't trade them. But making trades for more questionable players who will cap us out for another 5 years and trading away more future #1 picks are on tap.

And what is going to constitute another bad year? If Isiah maxes out the talent on the roster for a .500 record are people going to look at it as an "incredible" 18 game turnaround or are they going to look at it for what it really is, a team that's no better than mediocre and a future that doesn't show much promise. We all know what Dolan will say and it's only going to prolong the Isiah Error. There's no place to go but up and Isiah and Dolan will use that to distort the truth. Be it 5 more wins or 18, we'd still be mired in mediocrity, or worse, but they'll try to sell you more garbage about how things are great and going exactly as planned.

That's nothing but a lose-lose situation. Isiah is still here and chances are that he'll buy himself much more time than he deserves after turning this team into a complete laughingstock.

There's always an excuse for Isiah and as long as he has Dolan's ear we're f***ed. That's why he needs to go and as long as he's part of this organization we're never going to have any credibility or hope. It's just going to be more of the same snake oil salesman talk about how things are really going to be much better after a couple of moves are made and excuses when they aren't before the cycle starts over and over again. But at least you'll get a nice smile from Isiah as be bends you over.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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BasketballJones
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5/17/2006  12:06 AM
Oh, don't you like Isiah?
https:// It's not so hard.
OngBok
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5/17/2006  12:07 AM
Oh no, its the Hateful Heffer !!!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
nyk4ever
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5/17/2006  12:12 AM
Welcome back Isles, I was beginning to wonder where you were since it's prime season to bash Isiah.

I'm just pissed at myself for not realing what Isiah was doing to this franchise until late last year and that he really had no vision. I think your post pretty much nailed the head of everything I been saying around here the past few days so why should I add more words to something that has been said right already.

Mills needs to go. Isiah needs to go. Marbury needs to go. Marbury wields too much power in this organization right now and I think it could be fatal. The Knicks need to remove him,

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 05-17-2006 12:13 AM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
OngBok
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5/17/2006  12:19 AM
Maybe you came back tooo early !!!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
islesfan
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5/17/2006  12:26 AM
nyk4ever, that's the scary thing, Isiah has no vision. LB has been coaching basketball for 30 years. What Isiah didn't know his M.O. was to tear down bad teams and selfish players and build them up again? What exactly was the criteria for hiring LB in the first place then? P.R.? To hide the fact that the roster sucked?

First the plan was to win now because NY couldn't handle rebuilding.

Then the plan was to rebuild and shame on NY if they thought it could have happened any other way.

Then the plan was to hire LB and get him the players he needed to win.

Now the plan is to get rid of Brown and keep the players that couldn't win for him.

What a ****ing joke.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
OngBok
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5/17/2006  12:32 AM
No vision ?? I thought we he first arrived he stated that we needed to get younger and more athletic ?? Everyone said we had Layden players that couldn't be moved but he did it !! Hell, he kept his word, we are younger and more athletic. CURRY, CRAW, WOODS, LEE, FRYE, NATE, BUTLER plus we get 2 picks in the draft which happens to be a draft that has no quality lottery players. You can't dispute his draft prowess !!!!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
holfresh
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5/17/2006  12:49 AM


Much as you don't want to hear it, this is all Larry's undoing...He plan and executed a palace coup and it didn't work...By all accounts,
he told Isiah not to meet with the players for the exit interviews. He wanted full control of this team..He set up a meeting with Dolan to
undermine Isiah...Dolan had Isiah call him back and told him the meeting won't be necessary..Thats what happens in life...You try to rub your superior out and didn't get the ok from the big boss...You get rubbed out...Laws of the jungle...Laws of the land...Can't blame Isiah for that..
holfresh
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5/17/2006  12:59 AM
Hey, I'm with Isiah...He wants to rebuild with young players that are athletic...I'm with that..Brown wanted older vets, I'm against that..
I have had enough of watching guys like Malik and AD...I don't want to see Eric Snow, Ratliff, KMart or any other over the hill player here
trying to get us to 40 wins again...Let the youngsters play and build a future for this organization...Enough is enough..Larry tanked the
season and you want to give him a pass...I'm just glad I'm not the only one that saw this...
djsunyc
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5/17/2006  1:09 AM
Posted by holfresh:

Hey, I'm with Isiah...He wants to rebuild with young players that are athletic...I'm with that..Brown wanted older vets, I'm against that..
I have had enough of watching guys like Malik and AD...I don't want to see Eric Snow, Ratliff, KMart or any other over the hill player here
trying to get us to 40 wins again...Let the youngsters play and build a future for this organization...Enough is enough..Larry tanked the
season and you want to give him a pass...I'm just glad I'm not the only one that saw this...

was isiah's job to put together a team or just bring down the average age and increase the vertical leaping ability? stop looking for the sizzle. the guys isiah have assembled are headcases and perennial losers. steph, jalen, francis, quentin, jamal, eddy, mo, jerome - all guys that have spent less than 25% of their careers in winning situations. and some of them are known as coach killers. some of them are known as guys with poor work ethic and conditioning problems. and all of them are only effective when they have the ball in their hands. otherwise, they're just standing around. isiah is just collecting names and sex appeal. he is not assembling a team.

btw, isiah traded for malik and AD...and mo...and signed vin baker...and jerome james. as far as i can see, eric snow is not here, and neither is ratliff and kmart. isiah said "lb wanted him. that's the only reason he's here." he was talking about qyntel. at age 24.
nyk4ever
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5/17/2006  1:11 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:

Hey, I'm with Isiah...He wants to rebuild with young players that are athletic...I'm with that..Brown wanted older vets, I'm against that..
I have had enough of watching guys like Malik and AD...I don't want to see Eric Snow, Ratliff, KMart or any other over the hill player here
trying to get us to 40 wins again...Let the youngsters play and build a future for this organization...Enough is enough..Larry tanked the
season and you want to give him a pass...I'm just glad I'm not the only one that saw this...

was isiah's job to put together a team or just bring down the average age and increase the vertical leaping ability? stop looking for the sizzle. the guys isiah have assembled are headcases and perennial losers. steph, jalen, francis, quentin, jamal, eddy, mo, jerome - all guys that have spent less than 25% of their careers in winning situations. and some of them are known as coach killers. some of them are known as guys with poor work ethic and conditioning problems. and all of them are only effective when they have the ball in their hands. otherwise, they're just standing around. isiah is just collecting names and sex appeal. he is not assembling a team.

btw, isiah traded for malik and AD...and mo...and signed vin baker...and jerome james. as far as i can see, eric snow is not here, and neither is ratliff and kmart. isiah said "lb wanted him. that's the only reason he's here." he was talking about qyntel. at age 24.

good post DJ.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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5/17/2006  1:27 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:

Hey, I'm with Isiah...He wants to rebuild with young players that are athletic...I'm with that..Brown wanted older vets, I'm against that..
I have had enough of watching guys like Malik and AD...I don't want to see Eric Snow, Ratliff, KMart or any other over the hill player here
trying to get us to 40 wins again...Let the youngsters play and build a future for this organization...Enough is enough..Larry tanked the
season and you want to give him a pass...I'm just glad I'm not the only one that saw this...

was isiah's job to put together a team or just bring down the average age and increase the vertical leaping ability? stop looking for the sizzle. the guys isiah have assembled are headcases and perennial losers. steph, jalen, francis, quentin, jamal, eddy, mo, jerome - all guys that have spent less than 25% of their careers in winning situations. and some of them are known as coach killers. some of them are known as guys with poor work ethic and conditioning problems. and all of them are only effective when they have the ball in their hands. otherwise, they're just standing around. isiah is just collecting names and sex appeal. he is not assembling a team.

btw, isiah traded for malik and AD...and mo...and signed vin baker...and jerome james. as far as i can see, eric snow is not here, and neither is ratliff and kmart. isiah said "lb wanted him. that's the only reason he's here." he was talking about qyntel. at age 24.



DJ you are right...What Brown should have done was try to mold these guys into basketball players that can win, that the reason Dolan decision to fork over 10 mil per year for him...Instead he had other plans...He thought gaining control was more important than winning...While Brown was preaching team ball he was thinking about himself...Honestly, I was happy when the Knicks signed Brown..very happy...When it looked like he didnt want to win, he lost me....It looked likehe lost the players as well...Everyone is a loser until they win...there are 30 teams in the game and only one can win...You have to start somewhere...Isiah is not perfect, but he is doing what lots of us has been asking for here for years..build around youth...Curry,Lee, Frye and Nate are the future...Sorry Reezy was a casualty of this war....JJ,Moe,and Jalen are just passing thruogh...we need bodies..Build with youth...
bobs3304
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5/17/2006  2:10 AM
"getting young and athletic" isnt exactly a vision...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
4949
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5/17/2006  2:27 AM
[quote]
Posted by islesfan:

The running of this sorry franchise is so ass backward its scary. Isiah does such a poor job putting together one of the most mismatched rosters in the history of the NBA, so bad that he's finished as an NBA executive after he leaves the Garden for good, and they choose to keep the roster and get rid of the only person in the entire organization with any history of success at his job because they think its too difficult to change the roster. It's freaking bizzaro world logic.

Here we go again with another 'worse in the history of the NBA'! We're not that bad and I refuse to accept that!
I'll never trust this' team again.
holfresh
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5/17/2006  4:52 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

"getting young and athletic" isnt exactly a vision...



Everything takes time...No one can build a winner overnight..Brown would not hav been here long enough to build anything..What in last year made you thing Brown was on the right track to make a winner? What was it exactly?...
bobs3304
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5/17/2006  5:51 AM
I actually agree with firing Brown.


Now if only we could fire Thomas, Mills, and Dolan......

NOW WE'D BE GETTING SOMEWHERE.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
OldFan
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5/17/2006  6:41 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by bobs3304:

"getting young and athletic" isnt exactly a vision...



Everything takes time...No one can build a winner overnight..Brown would not hav been here long enough to build anything..What in last year made you thing Brown was on the right track to make a winner? What was it exactly?...



Brown understood that you need players to win. NOT potential players. You can hope some of your players are going to improve. You can't put together a team - where every player needs to vastly improve and expect to win. At the beginning of the year you had two fat, injured, out of shape centers who didn't know how to play the game, A PG who around the league (no it's not just Larry) is known as an over-rated head case. A totally inconsistent two guard, two old power forwards, an injured small forward with serious family issues on his mind, rookies and guys picked up off the scrap heap Larry took the job thinking he had some input into personal. What Isiah was able to obtain was two more headcases Francis and Jalen. (If you think those are Larry's players - you can't read between the lines. Larry was asking for defenders. He settled for the best garbage his incompetent GM could acquire.)
There are kids in HS and College that can run faster and jump higher and are younger then these guys - maybe IT should go out and get them because he has a vision - more like an hallucination. If you think this team is contending without a major over-haul - you're smoking the same stuff IT is.

TheSage
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5/17/2006  6:58 AM
Isles-DJ-Good posts. Ong-go back to the trade checker and try to figure out how the knx get LBJ from Cleveland, Steve Nash from Cleveland and why its good for those teams.
fishmike
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5/17/2006  7:33 AM
Larry Brown's undoing....lol
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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5/17/2006  9:21 AM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by bobs3304:

"getting young and athletic" isnt exactly a vision...



Everything takes time...No one can build a winner overnight..Brown would not hav been here long enough to build anything..What in last year made you thing Brown was on the right track to make a winner? What was it exactly?...



Brown understood that you need players to win. NOT potential players. You can hope some of your players are going to improve. You can't put together a team - where every player needs to vastly improve and expect to win. At the beginning of the year you had two fat, injured, out of shape centers who didn't know how to play the game, A PG who around the league (no it's not just Larry) is known as an over-rated head case. A totally inconsistent two guard, two old power forwards, an injured small forward with serious family issues on his mind, rookies and guys picked up off the scrap heap Larry took the job thinking he had some input into personal. What Isiah was able to obtain was two more headcases Francis and Jalen. (If you think those are Larry's players - you can't read between the lines. Larry was asking for defenders. He settled for the best garbage his incompetent GM could acquire.)
There are kids in HS and College that can run faster and jump higher and are younger then these guys - maybe IT should go out and get them because he has a vision - more like an hallucination. If you think this team is contending without a major over-haul - you're smoking the same stuff IT is.



Where is it written tha Brown came off the great mountain with coaching tablets in his hand...You guys act like Brown is the only person on earth capable to winning a Championship..You all act like Brown is the only one with vision to put a team together..News flash, he is a horrible GM...He has won one championship in 20 NBA years of coaching...The Knicks has gotten to the finals without Brown before and will get there again without him...My God, the shet he pulled this pass year was a crime and you guys want to look the other way...Well the owner can't and he shouldn't...This is the second time an owner has wanted him out of town in 10 months...Dolan will gladly pay him 40 mil to get lost...Think about that....Brown left this guy with no other choice....He attempted to gain the very thing he sorted for in Cleveland..He used the team as a pawn for his personal gains..It didn't work...In life when you attempt a coup and do not succeed, that means your arse...He has it coming...So please, it not about basketball anymore, time to move on!!!



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-17-2006 09:22 AM]
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Now do you see what I've been saying about Isiah since Day 1?
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