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fishmike
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5/16/2006  8:15 PM
Isiah drafts well and is in love with his "untouchable" picks like Lee, Nate, Frye and Co.

Lets say Larry is canned. Isiah sends Francis and cash to the Hawks for Al Harrington (5 years $50mm)

Isiah drafts a couple of kids and has a good draft as he usually does.

Isiah plays the young guys. Lee, Frye, Nate, maybe Jackie, etc are part of the rotation.

He's good with young players. They love him. They play hard for him. As an X's and O's coach he sucks, but he's proven to do well with the young guys (Bender, Oneil, Harrington, Tinsley, etc)

He hires a GM cheap because he cant do both, nobody can.

The Knicks play a young energetic style of play. Probably dont defend much but they score alot and the young guys are getting time.

I have no doubt he plays the kids quite alot. If we win games its "look at how I'm building a great young core." If we lose games its "we are building with a young core." Either way the snake slithers for another day.

I think this is a good scenario and a fair one all things considered. Personally its what I was hoping for all along when he was first hired.

Of course after a 5-7 start Isiah could trade the kids for Zach Randolph and talk about how he got a 20/10 post player, but for this thead I keep it on the up and up.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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martin
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5/16/2006  8:27 PM
all I know is that I have a twitch that started up recently. Only happens when "Isiah" and "coach" are in the same sentence.
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nyk4ever
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5/16/2006  8:31 PM
Fish I agree with you fully. I think Isiah will have a run and gun and things will look great but what really bothers me is that the team is going to play absolutely no defense. The Knicks will win some games which will keep everyone happy but I think its going to be a smokescreen because you HAVE to play defense to win in the playoffs. This is what really bothers me with the Knicks.

I know everyone is happy becuase they think the Knicks will win more but it's going to be mirage kind of winning where defense isn't played and when you dont play defense, you don't win games in the postseason. That's my beef with ALL of this. If Marbury comes into camp willing to play hard for Isiah in ALL facets of the game(which includes defense) then I will ecstatic and happy that Larry is gone. If this teams plays run and gun and they play defense along with it then I'll be the first to say how happy I am that Larry is gone but thats a big if.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
tkf
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5/16/2006  8:58 PM
if It is going to run and gun, he better draft marcus williams or kyle lowry. Marbury is not a run and gun PG..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Elite
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5/16/2006  9:13 PM
Run and Gun will never work... watch whats gunna happen to phoenix
nyk4ever
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5/16/2006  9:17 PM
Posted by Elite:

Run and Gun will never work... watch whats gunna happen to phoenix

I've been saying the same thing for a long time, Elite. I don't understand why people are so enamored with the idea of the run and gun. History has shown that defense wins in the postseason and you can see it by watching every single game of the playoffs so far.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Swishfm3
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5/16/2006  9:26 PM
If Harrington comes to NY, you can all say goodbye to Frye
nixluva
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5/16/2006  10:53 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

If Harrington comes to NY, you can all say goodbye to Frye

NAH! Frye is too versatile and useful to be made obsolete. I also don't see this team being a run and gun team. Not with the makeup of the team and many halfcourt players. We'll run a bit, but not crazy.

Also don't be too hasty about this team not playing D. If you look at the season you'd notice that the young core players almost always came in and played good D and they were responsible for many of our comeback runs which fell short, but the effort was there. Our young core players will get better defensively as they take on more of a lead role next year. With Larry gone the team should be pretty good offensively. I think the increased scoring will help the defense. You have to remember that LB had some AWFUL offensive starting lineups out there. So we often fell behind early and that puts even more pressure on your defense. With that problem minimized I believe that you'll see better D next year. Not great D, but good enough to win games.
crzymdups
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5/16/2006  11:01 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Isiah drafts well and is in love with his "untouchable" picks like Lee, Nate, Frye and Co.

Lets say Larry is canned. Isiah sends Francis and cash to the Hawks for Al Harrington (5 years $50mm)

Isiah drafts a couple of kids and has a good draft as he usually does.

Isiah plays the young guys. Lee, Frye, Nate, maybe Jackie, etc are part of the rotation.

He's good with young players. They love him. They play hard for him. As an X's and O's coach he sucks, but he's proven to do well with the young guys (Bender, Oneil, Harrington, Tinsley, etc)

He hires a GM cheap because he cant do both, nobody can.

The Knicks play a young energetic style of play. Probably dont defend much but they score alot and the young guys are getting time.

I have no doubt he plays the kids quite alot. If we win games its "look at how I'm building a great young core." If we lose games its "we are building with a young core." Either way the snake slithers for another day.

I think this is a good scenario and a fair one all things considered. Personally its what I was hoping for all along when he was first hired.

Of course after a 5-7 start Isiah could trade the kids for Zach Randolph and talk about how he got a 20/10 post player, but for this thead I keep it on the up and up.

this is fair and I don't think it's too unlikely. we'll see. not much can be worse than another season of Isiah v. Larry v. Steph.
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djsunyc
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5/16/2006  11:03 PM
fish, you're a douchebag.
buddapaw
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5/16/2006  11:11 PM
Posted by Elite:

Run and Gun will never work... watch whats gunna happen to phoenix

How about the Showtime Lakers I guess that didn't work
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
martin
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5/16/2006  11:16 PM
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by Elite:

Run and Gun will never work... watch whats gunna happen to phoenix

How about the Showtime Lakers I guess that didn't work

Showtime ran when they got the change but they had excellent defense and a very good half court game too.
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buddapaw
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5/16/2006  11:23 PM
Well said sir, great site by the way
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
nyk4ever
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5/16/2006  11:25 PM
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by Elite:

Run and Gun will never work... watch whats gunna happen to phoenix

How about the Showtime Lakers I guess that didn't work

Run and Gun STARTS with defense. I don't want to take a Larry Brown line but any good coach will tell you that good offense starts with defense. When you talk about the Showtime Lakers you are talking about some pretty good defensive teams. They weren't the Pistons or anything but they were very good defensive teams in their own right.

Run and Gun starts with defense. This is my major flaw with D'Antonis system but something they tried to fix in the offseason by acquiring Kurt Thomas. If you play defense, (ie create turnovers, block shots etc etc) then your system becomes that much more effective because the other team isn't even getting shots up and your running down the floor. That's what I think is wrong with the Suns right now and any team that tries to go run and gun.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
buddapaw
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5/16/2006  11:41 PM
Man do they ever miss Amare
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
fishmike
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5/17/2006  7:37 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

fish, you're a douchebag.
I was bored and decide to challenge myself by finding something positive if the coach Isiah scenario actually happens. Its got about as much a chance of of happening as those snow storms from "Day After Tomorrow" coming but didnt they make it sound so plausable?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
bigbeast
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5/17/2006  8:23 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by Elite:

Run and Gun will never work... watch whats gunna happen to phoenix

How about the Showtime Lakers I guess that didn't work

Run and Gun STARTS with defense. I don't want to take a Larry Brown line but any good coach will tell you that good offense starts with defense. When you talk about the Showtime Lakers you are talking about some pretty good defensive teams. They weren't the Pistons or anything but they were very good defensive teams in their own right.

Run and Gun starts with defense. This is my major flaw with D'Antonis system but something they tried to fix in the offseason by acquiring Kurt Thomas. If you play defense, (ie create turnovers, block shots etc etc) then your system becomes that much more effective because the other team isn't even getting shots up and your running down the floor. That's what I think is wrong with the Suns right now and any team that tries to go run and gun.

Hmmmm......Lets see.......Suns advance to the Western Conference finals last year, and are one game from a return trip. Not to mention they are doing this without there best all around player, and a bunch of fringe players (James Jones, Bell, etc).

If the Suns and there system is All Wrong, then the Knicks will be All Right....
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
VDesai
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5/17/2006  8:53 AM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by Elite:

Run and Gun will never work... watch whats gunna happen to phoenix

How about the Showtime Lakers I guess that didn't work

Run and Gun STARTS with defense. I don't want to take a Larry Brown line but any good coach will tell you that good offense starts with defense. When you talk about the Showtime Lakers you are talking about some pretty good defensive teams. They weren't the Pistons or anything but they were very good defensive teams in their own right.

Run and Gun starts with defense. This is my major flaw with D'Antonis system but something they tried to fix in the offseason by acquiring Kurt Thomas. If you play defense, (ie create turnovers, block shots etc etc) then your system becomes that much more effective because the other team isn't even getting shots up and your running down the floor. That's what I think is wrong with the Suns right now and any team that tries to go run and gun.

Hmmmm......Lets see.......Suns advance to the Western Conference finals last year, and are one game from a return trip. Not to mention they are doing this without there best all around player, and a bunch of fringe players (James Jones, Bell, etc).

If the Suns and there system is All Wrong, then the Knicks will be All Right....


Exactly. It's only "wrong" cause they haven't won the title yet. But as of now its certainly a formula to win a lot of games. If they do win a title, you'll see 5 or 6 copycats right away.
NYKBocker
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5/17/2006  10:33 AM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by Elite:

Run and Gun will never work... watch whats gunna happen to phoenix

How about the Showtime Lakers I guess that didn't work

Run and Gun STARTS with defense. I don't want to take a Larry Brown line but any good coach will tell you that good offense starts with defense. When you talk about the Showtime Lakers you are talking about some pretty good defensive teams. They weren't the Pistons or anything but they were very good defensive teams in their own right.

Run and Gun starts with defense. This is my major flaw with D'Antonis system but something they tried to fix in the offseason by acquiring Kurt Thomas. If you play defense, (ie create turnovers, block shots etc etc) then your system becomes that much more effective because the other team isn't even getting shots up and your running down the floor. That's what I think is wrong with the Suns right now and any team that tries to go run and gun.

Hmmmm......Lets see.......Suns advance to the Western Conference finals last year, and are one game from a return trip. Not to mention they are doing this without there best all around player, and a bunch of fringe players (James Jones, Bell, etc).

If the Suns and there system is All Wrong, then the Knicks will be All Right....

They have Fugazy.
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