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Tim Thomas Vs Q Richardson
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DarkKnicks
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Compare the two most disappointing Knicks players of the past two seasons.
Tim "Fugazy" Thomas
Q "1/7 Field goals but I play hard" Richardson
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Marv
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5/6/2006  12:19 AM
rojasmas, last year TT incurred a lot of wrath because he just stood on the floor. He'd shoot the ball, and that would be it. He wouldn't pass, hit the boards, get back on D, contest shots, nothing. Just shoot. And not even well.
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joec32033
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5/6/2006  12:25 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

Here are his numbers with the Knicks. Compare them with Q Rich and you tell me who stole money.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3170/career;_ylt=A0SO55A6GlxEqAMB9ASkvLYF
TT averaged 16/5 his half season in his first year in NY on 45% shooting. Not shabby.

You brought up money, but I'll push it aside. TT is a physical specimen, a guy who arguably has the 2nd most talent in the league behind Lebron and had the Most talent in the NBA for years, IMO.

Q is a stocky SG/SF who plays with heart. This is the ONLY year Q has underperformed and he has been threw alot this season...( I mean seriously the plot about his brother and father getting mugged and his brother getting killed, then his father has a heart attack at the hospital after he finds out Q's brother dies is the plot line of some dark twisted ass movie), his hurting personal life (even though IMO his father and bro probably affected him more) plus the fact that he reinvented his game under one of the most demanding coaches in the league has to stand for something.

TT never had no problems. He has an issue with other people when why he hasn't done better is questioned. "It's Ray's fault". It's coach Karl's fault. It's Kenyon Martin's fault. It's Jarron Collins fault. it's alway something with this guy.

The reason he has been a bigger disappointment to me is because he has so much more potential than Q.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 12:27 AM]
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rojasmas
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5/6/2006  1:56 AM
Marv, 43% last year, not great, not horrible, certainly not deserving of the ridicule. His rebounds were atrocious, granted. Bad year with the death of his sister.
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crzymdups
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5/6/2006  2:05 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

Marv, 43% last year, not great, not horrible, certainly not deserving of the ridicule. His rebounds were atrocious, granted. Bad year with the death of his sister.

look up his stats pre-all-star break. he shot more like 35% in the first half, then had a scorching second half when the season was over in march and april. he's a contract player with no heart. of course Nash is going to make him look good, but if anyone thinks he and Bonzi Wells are doing anything but auditioning for a contract I have a Jerome James playoff highlight reel from last season to show you.

if tim thomas is so great and consistent, why did the Bulls tell him to go home after a month of seeing him?
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rojasmas
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5/6/2006  10:31 AM
Because Scott Skiles had his mind made up on him before he ever stepped foot in Chicago and didn't like him.
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DarkKnicks
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5/6/2006  11:38 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by rojasmas:

Here are his numbers with the Knicks. Compare them with Q Rich and you tell me who stole money.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3170/career;_ylt=A0SO55A6GlxEqAMB9ASkvLYF
TT averaged 16/5 his half season in his first year in NY on 45% shooting. Not shabby.

You brought up money, but I'll push it aside. TT is a physical specimen, a guy who arguably has the 2nd most talent in the league behind Lebron and had the Most talent in the NBA for years, IMO.

Q is a stocky SG/SF who plays with heart. This is the ONLY year Q has underperformed and he has been threw alot this season...( I mean seriously the plot about his brother and father getting mugged and his brother getting killed, then his father has a heart attack at the hospital after he finds out Q's brother dies is the plot line of some dark twisted ass movie), his hurting personal life (even though IMO his father and bro probably affected him more) plus the fact that he reinvented his game under one of the most demanding coaches in the league has to stand for something.

TT never had no problems. He has an issue with other people when why he hasn't done better is questioned. "It's Ray's fault". It's coach Karl's fault. It's Kenyon Martin's fault. It's Jarron Collins fault. it's alway something with this guy.

The reason he has been a bigger disappointment to me is because he has so much more potential than Q.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 12:27 AM]
I really disagree with this kind of statements. Potential sucks, I'm tired of this word and its a really bad excuse to blame Tim Thomas. He played horrible last year and he hasn't never been a great player, so stop the potential thing, please. 2nd most talented in the league??!!
I accept that you all prefer Q because he "plays hard" (which of course I don't think so) but to me basketball is just not about playing hard, it is about winning games. If Q sucks I don't care if he tries, because Tim Thomas without "playing hard" is more eficient than him, and to me that's the bottom line. If you can win more games with a player that "does not care" you go with it.
joec32033
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5/6/2006  3:57 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by rojasmas:

Here are his numbers with the Knicks. Compare them with Q Rich and you tell me who stole money.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3170/career;_ylt=A0SO55A6GlxEqAMB9ASkvLYF
TT averaged 16/5 his half season in his first year in NY on 45% shooting. Not shabby.

You brought up money, but I'll push it aside. TT is a physical specimen, a guy who arguably has the 2nd most talent in the league behind Lebron and had the Most talent in the NBA for years, IMO.

Q is a stocky SG/SF who plays with heart. This is the ONLY year Q has underperformed and he has been threw alot this season...( I mean seriously the plot about his brother and father getting mugged and his brother getting killed, then his father has a heart attack at the hospital after he finds out Q's brother dies is the plot line of some dark twisted ass movie), his hurting personal life (even though IMO his father and bro probably affected him more) plus the fact that he reinvented his game under one of the most demanding coaches in the league has to stand for something.

TT never had no problems. He has an issue with other people when why he hasn't done better is questioned. "It's Ray's fault". It's coach Karl's fault. It's Kenyon Martin's fault. It's Jarron Collins fault. it's alway something with this guy.

The reason he has been a bigger disappointment to me is because he has so much more potential than Q.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 12:27 AM]
I really disagree with this kind of statements. Potential sucks, I'm tired of this word and its a really bad excuse to blame Tim Thomas. He played horrible last year and he hasn't never been a great player, so stop the potential thing, please. 2nd most talented in the league??!!
I accept that you all prefer Q because he "plays hard" (which of course I don't think so) but to me basketball is just not about playing hard, it is about winning games. If Q sucks I don't care if he tries, because Tim Thomas without "playing hard" is more eficient than him, and to me that's the bottom line. If you can win more games with a player that "does not care" you go with it.

Bro, you really got to give me some facts other than opinion. You are basing TT's whole career against the worst season of Q's career....TT more efficient? Here are some career stats...

TT-12.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 44.1% FG%, 37% 3pt%, 77.4% FT%, .8 spg, .2 bpg in 27.4 mpg-8 seasons
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/468/tim_thomas/
Q -12.6 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.5 apg, 40.6% FG%, 35% 3pt%, 71.6% FT%, .9 spg, .2 bpg in 27.9 mpg-5 seasons
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/42/quentin_richardson/

Seems pretty close to me bro...and Q makes half the $$ of what TT makes and TT had 100 times more potential than Q. TT could have revolutionized the forward spots with all his tools...He is the equivilant of a 5 tool baseball player (remember Alex Ochoa?) who doesn't make it.

And, yes 2nd most potential in the league. Bro, if TT lived up to his potential he could've been a 24 ppg with range and post up, 10 rpg, 5 apg w/ handle like a guard.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 4:05 PM]
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Silverfuel
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5/6/2006  5:08 PM
Posted by joec32033:

Seems pretty close to me bro...and Q makes half the $$ of what TT makes and TT had 100 times more potential than Q.
So even though their stats are very similar, you prefer Q because he plays harder, makes less money and has less potential? By that comparision, you should like Shandon Anderson better than Q. Rich and Q. Woods!
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joec32033
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5/6/2006  5:39 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by joec32033:

Seems pretty close to me bro...and Q makes half the $$ of what TT makes and TT had 100 times more potential than Q.
So even though their stats are very similar, you prefer Q because he plays harder, makes less money and has less potential? By that comparision, you should like Shandon Anderson better than Q. Rich and Q. Woods!

'Scuse? I prefer Q because I already know what TT brings to the table and I know what Q brings to the table. And the Shandon Anderson comparison is crap because Shandon doesn't put up comparable stats at all, is older, and I already know what to expect of him. Already knowing what I expect because we already had him. You want a comprison? Fine, it's like saying I want Raja Bell intead of Q...Q is a better overall player if he can comeback but Bell is a lower potential but solid player who I know is not going to score in bunches like Q can and may not be the overall player Q is, BUT he will definately play solid defense and won't be a liability offense.

Please don't ignore the fact we ALREADY know what TT brings to the table. We had him before. TT is on a team with a PG who actually makes everyone alot better, he has fresh legs as he hasn't played this season, he is in a contract year and is playing on the highest scoring team in the league.
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Silverfuel
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5/6/2006  5:47 PM
Thats not what I said at all. I said based just on trying harder and making less money, you would prefer Shandon Anderson to Q. Woods. The potential theing IMO is an excuse. TT had bad half of the season and Q Rich had a terrible full season.
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TMS
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5/6/2006  6:23 PM
like i said on another thread, it's a sad state of affairs when Knick fans are harking back w/positive memories of Fugazy Tim.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
rojasmas
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5/6/2006  7:30 PM
He has been Phoenix's second best player in the Lakers series. Love him or hate him, he has played his butt off this series.
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joec32033
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5/6/2006  7:35 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

He has been Phoenix's second best player in the Lakers series. Love him or hate him, he has played his butt off this series.

Won't argue that...I will argue about having any expectation about TT playing this wa next year.
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DarkKnicks
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5/6/2006  8:06 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by rojasmas:

Here are his numbers with the Knicks. Compare them with Q Rich and you tell me who stole money.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3170/career;_ylt=A0SO55A6GlxEqAMB9ASkvLYF
TT averaged 16/5 his half season in his first year in NY on 45% shooting. Not shabby.

You brought up money, but I'll push it aside. TT is a physical specimen, a guy who arguably has the 2nd most talent in the league behind Lebron and had the Most talent in the NBA for years, IMO.

Q is a stocky SG/SF who plays with heart. This is the ONLY year Q has underperformed and he has been threw alot this season...( I mean seriously the plot about his brother and father getting mugged and his brother getting killed, then his father has a heart attack at the hospital after he finds out Q's brother dies is the plot line of some dark twisted ass movie), his hurting personal life (even though IMO his father and bro probably affected him more) plus the fact that he reinvented his game under one of the most demanding coaches in the league has to stand for something.

TT never had no problems. He has an issue with other people when why he hasn't done better is questioned. "It's Ray's fault". It's coach Karl's fault. It's Kenyon Martin's fault. It's Jarron Collins fault. it's alway something with this guy.

The reason he has been a bigger disappointment to me is because he has so much more potential than Q.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 12:27 AM]
I really disagree with this kind of statements. Potential sucks, I'm tired of this word and its a really bad excuse to blame Tim Thomas. He played horrible last year and he hasn't never been a great player, so stop the potential thing, please. 2nd most talented in the league??!!
I accept that you all prefer Q because he "plays hard" (which of course I don't think so) but to me basketball is just not about playing hard, it is about winning games. If Q sucks I don't care if he tries, because Tim Thomas without "playing hard" is more eficient than him, and to me that's the bottom line. If you can win more games with a player that "does not care" you go with it.

Bro, you really got to give me some facts other than opinion. You are basing TT's whole career against the worst season of Q's career....TT more efficient? Here are some career stats...

TT-12.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 44.1% FG%, 37% 3pt%, 77.4% FT%, .8 spg, .2 bpg in 27.4 mpg-8 seasons
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/468/tim_thomas/
Q -12.6 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.5 apg, 40.6% FG%, 35% 3pt%, 71.6% FT%, .9 spg, .2 bpg in 27.9 mpg-5 seasons
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/42/quentin_richardson/

Seems pretty close to me bro...and Q makes half the $$ of what TT makes and TT had 100 times more potential than Q. TT could have revolutionized the forward spots with all his tools...He is the equivilant of a 5 tool baseball player (remember Alex Ochoa?) who doesn't make it.

And, yes 2nd most potential in the league. Bro, if TT lived up to his potential he could've been a 24 ppg with range and post up, 10 rpg, 5 apg w/ handle like a guard.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 4:05 PM]
Well, I was comparing Tim Thomas worst season to Q worst season.
DarkKnicks
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5/6/2006  8:07 PM
Posted by TMS:

like i said on another thread, it's a sad state of affairs when Knick fans are harking back w/positive memories of Fugazy Tim.
I don't think a lot of people here have good memories of Tim Thomas, it is just that Q is not judged the same way as Thomas was.
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5/6/2006  8:17 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by TMS:

like i said on another thread, it's a sad state of affairs when Knick fans are harking back w/positive memories of Fugazy Tim.
I don't think a lot of people here have good memories of Tim Thomas, it is just that Q is not judged the same way as Thomas was.


i'm holding off on final judgements on Q due to the fact that he was coming off an injury & all the other issues he had going on in his personal life this year... he at least tried on defense... this is not me saying i love Q Rich, btw... but i do know he can play better than he did this past year... he's shown it before... TT only plays hard when he feels like it, which is what i can't stand about him... he can be a great player if he wanted to be, but he doesn't... wasting all that talent is a crying shame.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
joec32033
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5/6/2006  8:22 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by rojasmas:

Here are his numbers with the Knicks. Compare them with Q Rich and you tell me who stole money.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3170/career;_ylt=A0SO55A6GlxEqAMB9ASkvLYF
TT averaged 16/5 his half season in his first year in NY on 45% shooting. Not shabby.

You brought up money, but I'll push it aside. TT is a physical specimen, a guy who arguably has the 2nd most talent in the league behind Lebron and had the Most talent in the NBA for years, IMO.

Q is a stocky SG/SF who plays with heart. This is the ONLY year Q has underperformed and he has been threw alot this season...( I mean seriously the plot about his brother and father getting mugged and his brother getting killed, then his father has a heart attack at the hospital after he finds out Q's brother dies is the plot line of some dark twisted ass movie), his hurting personal life (even though IMO his father and bro probably affected him more) plus the fact that he reinvented his game under one of the most demanding coaches in the league has to stand for something.

TT never had no problems. He has an issue with other people when why he hasn't done better is questioned. "It's Ray's fault". It's coach Karl's fault. It's Kenyon Martin's fault. It's Jarron Collins fault. it's alway something with this guy.

The reason he has been a bigger disappointment to me is because he has so much more potential than Q.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 12:27 AM]
I really disagree with this kind of statements. Potential sucks, I'm tired of this word and its a really bad excuse to blame Tim Thomas. He played horrible last year and he hasn't never been a great player, so stop the potential thing, please. 2nd most talented in the league??!!
I accept that you all prefer Q because he "plays hard" (which of course I don't think so) but to me basketball is just not about playing hard, it is about winning games. If Q sucks I don't care if he tries, because Tim Thomas without "playing hard" is more eficient than him, and to me that's the bottom line. If you can win more games with a player that "does not care" you go with it.

Bro, you really got to give me some facts other than opinion. You are basing TT's whole career against the worst season of Q's career....TT more efficient? Here are some career stats...

TT-12.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 44.1% FG%, 37% 3pt%, 77.4% FT%, .8 spg, .2 bpg in 27.4 mpg-8 seasons
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/468/tim_thomas/
Q -12.6 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.5 apg, 40.6% FG%, 35% 3pt%, 71.6% FT%, .9 spg, .2 bpg in 27.9 mpg-5 seasons
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/42/quentin_richardson/

Seems pretty close to me bro...and Q makes half the $$ of what TT makes and TT had 100 times more potential than Q. TT could have revolutionized the forward spots with all his tools...He is the equivilant of a 5 tool baseball player (remember Alex Ochoa?) who doesn't make it.

And, yes 2nd most potential in the league. Bro, if TT lived up to his potential he could've been a 24 ppg with range and post up, 10 rpg, 5 apg w/ handle like a guard.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 4:05 PM]
Well, I was comparing Tim Thomas worst season to Q worst season.

TT
---------- g min fg% FT% 3PT% reb ast blk stl pts
97-98 PHI 77 23.1 44.7 74.0 36.3 3.7 1.2 0.7 0.2 11.0
99-00 MIL 80 26.2 46.1 77.4 34.6 4.2 1.4 0.7 0.4 11.8
00-01 MIL 76 27.4 43.0 77.1 41.1 4.1 1.8 1.0 0.6 12.6
01-02 MIL 74 26.9 42.0 79.3 32.6 4.0 1.4 0.9 0.4 11.7
02-03 MIL 80 29.5 44.3 78.0 36.6 4.9 1.3 0.9 0.6 13.3
03-04 NYK 66 31.6 44.6 78.4 37.6 4.8 1.9 1.0 0.3 14.7
04-05 NYK 71 27.3 43.9 78.6 40.9 3.3 1.6 0.6 0.2 12.0
05-06 PHO 29 23.0 43.1 66.7 41.4 4.5 0.7 0.6 0.2 10.3


Q-

Year Team GMs MPG FG% FT% 3PT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
00-01 LAC 76 17.9 44.2 62.7 33.1 3.4 0.8 0.6 0.1 8.1
01-02 LAC 81 26.6 43.2 76.5 38.1 4.1 1.6 1.0 0.3 13.3
02-03 LAC 59 23.2 37.2 68.5 30.8 4.8 0.9 0.6 0.2 9.4
03-04 LAC 65 36.0 39.8 74.0 35.2 6.4 2.1 1.0 0.3 17.3
04-05 PHO 79 36.0 39.0 73.9 35.8 6.1 2.0 1.2 0.3 14.9
05-06 NYK 55 26.2 35.5 67.0 34.0 4.2 1.6 0.7 0.1 8.2
CAREER 360 27.9 40.6 71.6 35.3 4.9 1.5 0.9 0.2 12.6

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 8:23 PM]

[Edited by - joec32033 on 05-06-2006 8:26 PM]
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Allanfan20
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5/6/2006  8:30 PM
In fairness, Tim THomas also had personal issues, with all the deaths in his family too. I was completely willing to be sympathetic to TT, but he showed NO HEART and talked way too much. I had enough of that.
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TMS
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5/6/2006  8:39 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

In fairness, Tim THomas also had personal issues, with all the deaths in his family too. I was completely willing to be sympathetic to TT, but he showed NO HEART and talked way too much. I had enough of that.


yeah, he did have personal issues... but not trying on the court is what bothered me about him... not hitting your shot is 1 thing... that comes & goes... Q gave a full effort on the defense even when he was throwing up bricks on the other end... TT would just go into cruise mode all too often... if you're not going to try, don't bother suiting up.
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joec32033
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5/6/2006  8:41 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:

In fairness, Tim THomas also had personal issues, with all the deaths in his family too. I was completely willing to be sympathetic to TT, but he showed NO HEART and talked way too much. I had enough of that.


yeah, he did have personal issues... but not trying on the court is what bothered me about him... not hitting your shot is 1 thing... that comes & goes... Q gave a full effort on the defense even when he was throwing up bricks on the other end... TT would just go into cruise mode all too often... if you're not going to try, don't bother suiting up.

Testify brotha' testify!
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