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Give Larry Brown his TEAM
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djsunyc
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5/5/2006  3:10 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by McK1:

what is the vision?

younger and athletic is every teams "vision." League average age is 26. NY's average is the same. What is the identity of this young ad athletic squad? To run. Funny which of any pointguard Isiah has hired have a reputation be it college or pros of being a transition paced point guard?

where is all this talent?

I'm not tlking about guys who'll take you out to the playground and embarass you. I'm talking about rebounders outside snipers,guys with court vision, guys with court presence, guys who are responsive to coaching.

as for coaching...

Isiah didn't have the balls to hire Phil. LB is schmoozable. Phil is NOT.

[Edited by - McK1 on 05-05-2006 2:56 PM]



Ok so you are telling me you expected all the above to happen in two years removed from the Layden roster and 93 mil in salary cap hell?

3 trade deadlines
2 drafts
2 offseasons
40+ roster moves
$500+ mil spent
4 coaches

you're right, he needs more time.
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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5/5/2006  3:14 PM
Posted by holfresh:
It is far more easier to get rid of Larry than to trade all it's players and fire Isiah...
which would accomplish what? These plays have a long detailed history of losing, bitching, slacking, losing and bitching some more. Why has Isiah assembled a group of the most overpaid castoffs from every team around the NBA? In the NBA market your better off with nothing than being saddled by bad contracts attached to headache players that you cant move.

I agree 100% that Larry Brown was not the right coach for this group. They are all selfish shoot first players from losing teams that dont defend. A couple of guys made adjusments this year but it didnt translate into the w/l column.

That being said he has accomplished something, and that exposed the losing culture and zero accountability with in the organization.

Your right that Isiah was handed a rough situation. The problem is he made it significantly worse.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
oohah
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5/5/2006  3:17 PM
That being said he has accomplished something, and that exposed the losing culture and zero accountability with in the organization.

Come on already.


oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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5/5/2006  3:19 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
3 trade deadlines
2 drafts
2 offseasons
40+ roster moves
$500+ mil spent
4 coaches
a bunch of players that dont want to be here.
A coach that hates his players.
Players that hate each other.
No first round lottery pick (slated to be in the top 3)
At the mercy of the Bulls for next year's lottery pick
Still owe the Jazz/Suns a future #1
Capped out until 08/09

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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5/5/2006  3:19 PM
Posted by oohah:
That being said he has accomplished something, and that exposed the losing culture and zero accountability with in the organization.

Come on already.


oohah
your right... everyone knew that existed well before Larry Brown came to town

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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5/5/2006  3:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by holfresh:
It is far more easier to get rid of Larry than to trade all it's players and fire Isiah...
which would accomplish what? These plays have a long detailed history of losing, bitching, slacking, losing and bitching some more.
Frye? Lee? Butler? Nate? The players Larry *plays* have a history of losing. The players Larry benched most of the season do not and play hard actually.

holfresh
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5/5/2006  3:27 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by holfresh:
It is far more easier to get rid of Larry than to trade all it's players and fire Isiah...
which would accomplish what? These plays have a long detailed history of losing, bitching, slacking, losing and bitching some more. Why has Isiah assembled a group of the most overpaid castoffs from every team around the NBA? In the NBA market your better off with nothing than being saddled by bad contracts attached to headache players that you cant move.

I agree 100% that Larry Brown was not the right coach for this group. They are all selfish shoot first players from losing teams that dont defend. A couple of guys made adjusments this year but it didnt translate into the w/l column.

That being said he has accomplished something, and that exposed the losing culture and zero accountability with in the organization.

Your right that Isiah was handed a rough situation. The problem is he made it significantly worse.



Isiah started by trying to build a team with young players and through the draft...I think that's what we all wanted....Reezy was a great second round pick, we may have had the best draft in the NBA last season...He added Curry and we are still not sure what we have there, at least he has shown some flashes...What was wrong with that??How was that the wrong way to go?...He brought in Larry and Larry wanted no part of this young group...He wants experience vets...So experienced vets we go....
fishmike
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5/5/2006  3:34 PM
Reezy isnt here and Curry was a bad trade. I have no problem with trying to get Curry or any young player, but his trades are terrible and his signings are worse.

I will give you Malik Rose because of the picks.

Where does Vin Baker fit in with the vision?
Jerome JAmes?
Mo Taylor?
Jalen Rose?
Steve Francis?

Also, how do you give up your lottery picks? We havent had a winning season yet, HOW HOW HOW????????

He's traded away more picks than he's used, by far. We arent any younger than any other team. We dont have a pipeline or young core of players any better than any other team out there.

Holfresh.. when you look at this roster, what excites you? What do you look at and feel good about in regards to our future?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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5/5/2006  3:40 PM
Isiah started by trying to build a team with young players and through the draft...

2 weeks on the job, he traded 2 1st rounders for Steph

I think that's what we all wanted....

we want sustained effort and accountability. Neither as of yet has been seen

Reezy was a great second round pick, we may have had the best draft in the NBA last season...

Reezy has been traded. only 1 of the many team needs were addressed
in the draft.

He added Curry and we are still not sure what we have there, at least he has shown some flashes

sounds like his last 2 seasons i Chicago.
<kids in background>: are we there yet!?!

...What was wrong with that??How was that the wrong way to go?...

inconsistent approach, inability to identify team needs be it draft trades or free agency.

He brought in Larry and Larry wanted no part of this young group...He wants experience vets...So experienced vets we go....

get a smart grounded defensive minded center and he won't clam for Theo.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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5/5/2006  3:49 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Reezy isnt here and Curry was a bad trade. I have no problem with trying to get Curry or any young player, but his trades are terrible and his signings are worse.

I will give you Malik Rose because of the picks.

Where does Vin Baker fit in with the vision?
Jerome JAmes?
Mo Taylor?
Jalen Rose?
Steve Francis?

Also, how do you give up your lottery picks? We havent had a winning season yet, HOW HOW HOW????????

He's traded away more picks than he's used, by far. We arent any younger than any other team. We dont have a pipeline or young core of players any better than any other team out there.

Holfresh.. when you look at this roster, what excites you? What do you look at and feel good about in regards to our future?



I feel good we have one of the best point guards in the league...I feel good we may have a player in Frye that can give you 18 and 8 the next 10 frigging years...I feel good that Curry, yes Curry is an upgrade to any center we have had since Ewing....I feel good that Jamal isnt afraid to take any shot...Now if our god awful coach could just get these damn guys some frigging playing time together, we too, will be in the playoffs...we too will have something to be happy about this time of year....All I listen to is crap from you guys talking about Larry needs to change the culture for us to win...How about just playing you frigging best players with the most upside...How about that one...But no...Kepp defending him saying he doesnt have his players...Keep defending him telling me how bad the GM is...Keep defending him telling me about abt MOT,Jerome,Jalen,and Stevie Francis...This is fact...When the Knicks finally get around to winning..None of those fat bastards will be here....So keep harping on the bull that really doesn't matter if it makes you feel better...Just understand this, the real important thing, which is getting the best players on this team to become intimate with each others game, isn't happening because your damn all world coach has his own agenda....It doenst happen overnight...Piston are now playing like 5 years together to get to this point...Spurt coore about the same thing....We can't even get a lineup playing consecutive for one week...And you are preaching to me about Jerome and MOT...In the grand scheme of things they don't matter....We could win with all those fat bastards on the bench if the coach allows it to happen..but he won't...We have to watch Larry play the game he is currently playing...So please don't tell me about issues that don't matter...tell me why we can get our best players all on the court at the same time for an extended period of time.....Tell me that...I'll be interested then...
McK1
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5/5/2006  3:52 PM
if Jerome and Mo T don't matter, why waste valuable assets bringing them here on them?

2 2nd rounders for Taylor

full MLE to Jerome

A Dios Mios
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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5/5/2006  3:53 PM
he did not find a coach that suited his players. getting larry was a "no-brainer"? well, it looks like isiah was wrong about that too.

sorry, anytime you criticize lb, you should be criticizing the man that brought him here.
djsunyc
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5/5/2006  3:55 PM
Posted by McK1:

if Jerome and Mo T don't matter, why waste valuable assets bringing them here on them?

2 2nd rounders for Taylor

full MLE to Jerome

A Dios Mios

technically, he traded only one 2nd rounder for mo. the other one was moved in the deal we acquired nazr.

but that 2nd rounder we gave up for mo...is just 3 picks away from the #1 we acquired from the spurs.

isiah, always one step ahead...
holfresh
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5/5/2006  3:57 PM

Bro it doesn't matter....It really doesn't...I listen to you guys all day talk about these guys and jsut shake my head...They don't matter in the grand picture....We have a core we can build on...those others are throw away pieces...who cares..we are over the cap...We live there and will always live there....What do you say we forget about those guys and play the people who gives us the best chance to win...how about that idea?...You think Larry would go for it???? You don't even know the answer to that one do you...





[Edited by - holfresh on 05-05-2006 3:57 PM]
Killa4luv
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5/5/2006  3:58 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

he did not find a coach that suited his players. getting larry was a "no-brainer"? well, it looks like isiah was wrong about that too.

sorry, anytime you criticize lb, you should be criticizing the man that brought him here.

And if you agree with that, you should be critical of yourself too, because you wanted him here.
djsunyc
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5/5/2006  4:00 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Bro it doesn't matter....It really doesn't...I listen to you guys all day talk about these guys and jsut shake my head...They don't matter in the grand picture....We have a core we can build on...those others are throw away pieces...who cares..we are over the cap...We live there and will always live there....What do you say we forget about those guys and play the people who gives us the best chance to win...how about that idea?...You think Larry would go for it???? You don't even know the answer to that one do you...

i don't know. but i don't need to know.

what i do know is that lb and isiah meet weekly. yup, they meet EVERY WEEK. if lb was sabotaging this sh t from the beginning of the year, you would think isiah would say something, no? what exactly does isiah do anymore if he's allowing a coach to totally F up his plan?

again, misplaced blame b/c the guy that YOU are holding accountable can easily be fired by the guy most of us are holding accountable. either isiah is the biggest idiot and pansy on the planet or he actually, gulp, went along with it.
djsunyc
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5/5/2006  4:03 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by djsunyc:

he did not find a coach that suited his players. getting larry was a "no-brainer"? well, it looks like isiah was wrong about that too.

sorry, anytime you criticize lb, you should be criticizing the man that brought him here.

And if you agree with that, you should be critical of yourself too, because you wanted him here.

i don't care if i'm right and wrong. i don't get paid $5 mil a year to make bball decisions. i'm a bball fan. not an nba professional. just like all of us. i can sit and argue with you all for days and days and days b/c we're all in the same boat. what am i gonna criticize myself for, being wrong about a coach (which i don't think i am)? being wrong about a player? who cares if i'm right and wrong. all i know is this team blew before lb got here. it was ticking time bomb...especially with the way lenny was abruptly fired last year. and it exploded this year. all under one guy's watch.

lb is the least of all evils and the least of all problems.
fishmike
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5/5/2006  4:08 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Bro it doesn't matter....It really doesn't...I listen to you guys all day talk about these guys and jsut shake my head...They don't matter in the grand picture....We have a core we can build on...those others are throw away pieces...who cares..we are over the cap...We live there and will always live there....What do you say we forget about those guys and play the people who gives us the best chance to win...how about that idea?...You think Larry would go for it???? You don't even know the answer to that one do you...





[Edited by - holfresh on 05-05-2006 3:57 PM]
well I hope and pray we DO have a core to build on, because what you see is what you get. No lottery picks for the next 2 years ensures the pipeline isnt going to be getting much deeper.

I like our young players, but Frye, Curry, Lee, Nate and Jackie is not any more impressive a young core than about 15 other teams around the league. It just isnt.

Steph, Jalen, JJ, Mo T... they do matter. How do they not matter? This is our team. How do guys signed for 2,3,4 more years not matter? We gave up plenty to get these guys also.

If Steph is such a great PG how come he never wins? How come every night scrub guys come in and light him up? Man I want to get behind this guy but he cant guard Milt Palicio and Delonte West.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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5/5/2006  4:12 PM


Yes you need to know...If you are a fan spending your hard earned money and I know you do, you need to know..If everyone is not on board to win every minute of every game you will easily lose the team and witnessed that all year...

I can only talk about what I see....Larry isn't trying win games...If you don't have a consistant lineup you won't win...Please let the coach give the team a chance to win...If they don't win because the coach has done all he can then we have a go at the GM for not having the pieces on the court to help the coach win...It down't happen the other way around...You can't blame the GM when the coach isn't doing all he can to win...Doesn't make any damn sense....
holfresh
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5/5/2006  4:14 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by holfresh:


Bro it doesn't matter....It really doesn't...I listen to you guys all day talk about these guys and jsut shake my head...They don't matter in the grand picture....We have a core we can build on...those others are throw away pieces...who cares..we are over the cap...We live there and will always live there....What do you say we forget about those guys and play the people who gives us the best chance to win...how about that idea?...You think Larry would go for it???? You don't even know the answer to that one do you...





[Edited by - holfresh on 05-05-2006 3:57 PM]
well I hope and pray we DO have a core to build on, because what you see is what you get. No lottery picks for the next 2 years ensures the pipeline isnt going to be getting much deeper.

I like our young players, but Frye, Curry, Lee, Nate and Jackie is not any more impressive a young core than about 15 other teams around the league. It just isnt.

Steph, Jalen, JJ, Mo T... they do matter. How do they not matter? This is our team. How do guys signed for 2,3,4 more years not matter? We gave up plenty to get these guys also.

If Steph is such a great PG how come he never wins? How come every night scrub guys come in and light him up? Man I want to get behind this guy but he cant guard Milt Palicio and Delonte West.



Neither can Nash but you love him...



OK...You say Marbs don't guard anyone because you se the games...Tell who guards him in those game..Who shuts him down? Who stops him from getting to the basket?



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-05-2006 4:20 PM]
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