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Give Larry Brown his TEAM
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Caseloads
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5/5/2006  10:50 AM
Basically:
NY Trades: Steph, stevie, Malik, Jerome and Channing (have to give to get)

for: Eddie Jones (last year of contract), Hudson, Hassell (defense), Griffin (shot blocking), Camby (shot blocking center that's not washed up - maybe fragile though...), Miller (LB type PG)

Memphis trades: Eddie Jones and Troy Bell

for Mark Blount (center), Banks (tough PG), Patterson (tough SG/SF defender)

Sota trades: Blount, Davis, Hudson, Jaric, Hassell, Griffin, Banks

for Steph, Kenyon, Jerome "Big Game" James

line up: PG-steph, sg-McCants/whoever, SF-KG, PF-KMart, Center-James/whoever

Denver trades: Kmart (headache), Camby, Andre Miller, Patterson

for: Franchise (PG), Malik Rose (good vet), Channing Frye (for Camby), Ricky Davis (SG they need next to Melo), Jaric (PG/SG combo)



Knicks new LU:

Eddie Jones (last year of contract), Hudson, Hassell (defense), Griffin (shot blocking), Camby (shot blocking center that's not washed up - maybe fragile though...), Miller (LB type PG)

PG: Andre Miller/Hudson/Nate/draftpick
SG: Crawford/Jones/Q1
SF: Hassell/Jalen Rose/DLee/Q2
PF: Camby/Griffin/Taylor/DLee
Center: Curry/Jackie B/Griffin
AUTOADVERT
TymeLessKnicks
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5/5/2006  11:06 AM
u have 18 players there...that all im gonna say about that trade
Had enough Melo?
codeunknown
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5/5/2006  11:09 AM
Posted by TymeLessKnicks:

u have 18 players there...that all im gonna say about that trade

Its 16 players including the pick.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
crzymdups
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5/5/2006  11:11 AM
Camby is never coming back. Let it go.
¿ △ ?
TymeLessKnicks
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5/5/2006  11:12 AM
ooops... hahaha....its too early, i need food...brain not functioning correctly

ok good trade then...lol

no frye is involved...bad trade...BAD

[Edited by - tymelessknicks on 05-05-2006 11:13 AM]
Had enough Melo?
Bonn1997
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5/5/2006  11:19 AM
Trade Stevie? You don't give Larry his team by trading players he asked for!
Caseloads
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5/5/2006  11:21 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Trade Stevie? You don't give Larry his team by trading players he asked for!
Larry might have asked for stevie but sure didnt play him when he was here.
Caseloads
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5/5/2006  11:21 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

Camby is never coming back. Let it go.
Trading Channing for Camby is a good idea in my opinion.

Now if we can only find a way to get Ariza back...
rvhoss
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5/5/2006  11:24 AM
don't forget tim thomas and sweetney and nazr, may as well bring everyone back...where's spreewell these days?
all kool aid all the time.
fishmike
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5/5/2006  11:57 AM
no team in the NBA is built around a coach. what we need is a GM who understands building a team period. That GM should gather players that fit into some similar style of play, and find the coach best suited to to manage that style.

This is where we fail... first GM, then players, than coach.

I think LB is good coach if not a great coach. He's certainly one of the NBA's top 5, so you would put him in the elite catagory. He's not on the court though.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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5/5/2006  12:04 PM
I like our gm.
all kool aid all the time.
TymeLessKnicks
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5/5/2006  12:15 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by crzymdups:

Camby is never coming back. Let it go.
Trading Channing for Camby is a good idea in my opinion.

Now if we can only find a way to get Ariza back...

UR SOO SARCASTIC!!!
Had enough Melo?
Killa4luv
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5/5/2006  12:18 PM
Kmart, Snow, Zo, Speedy and Q is his team. Do you want that team? I don't.
fishmike
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5/5/2006  1:28 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I like our gm.
me too, hard not to believe in him

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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5/5/2006  1:41 PM
Posted by fishmike:

no team in the NBA is built around a coach. what we need is a GM who understands building a team period. That GM should gather players that fit into some similar style of play, and find the coach best suited to to manage that style.

This is where we fail... first GM, then players, than coach.

I think LB is good coach if not a great coach. He's certainly one of the NBA's top 5, so you would put him in the elite catagory. He's not on the court though.



Fish is that you....I can't believe my lying eyes...Is that really you speaking...I think we may be in agreement here...
fishmike
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5/5/2006  1:49 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

no team in the NBA is built around a coach. what we need is a GM who understands building a team period. That GM should gather players that fit into some similar style of play, and find the coach best suited to to manage that style.

This is where we fail... first GM, then players, than coach.

I think LB is good coach if not a great coach. He's certainly one of the NBA's top 5, so you would put him in the elite catagory. He's not on the court though.



Fish is that you....I can't believe my lying eyes...Is that really you speaking...I think we may be in agreement here...

Ive been saying here for 4 years since JVG that the coach didnt matter, not until you built a team worth coaching. Isiah has collected some players, the level of talent of which is up for debate but nobody on this site can honestly say he's done ANYTHING to build a team.

All I have said from the get go is that Larry isnt the problem. The problem is with the guy that built this thing and the players he's built it with.

To guys like Kurt Thomas, Houston, Spree, Harrington, even Spoon rest his soul it didnt matter who was coaching them. They did what that coach asked and they played hard. Problem was that group wasnt very good. We had the smallest frontcourt in basketball and our scorers were aging before our eyes. Still they played hard and won 37 games with McDyess on IR.

Nothing changes here until the losing culture goes away. I have none, ZERO confidence that Isiah is capable of changing that.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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5/5/2006  2:05 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Trade Stevie? You don't give Larry his team by trading players he asked for!
Larry might have asked for stevie but sure didnt play him when he was here.
Even Steve's mother probably wouldn't play him many minutes considering how bad he was! Maybe Larry's judgment was just completely off when he "bugged" Isiah repeatedly to get Francis. (Or maybe he lied to the media and didn't really want Francis.) I know I don't want Francis or Marbury.
holfresh
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5/5/2006  2:10 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

no team in the NBA is built around a coach. what we need is a GM who understands building a team period. That GM should gather players that fit into some similar style of play, and find the coach best suited to to manage that style.

This is where we fail... first GM, then players, than coach.

I think LB is good coach if not a great coach. He's certainly one of the NBA's top 5, so you would put him in the elite catagory. He's not on the court though.



Fish is that you....I can't believe my lying eyes...Is that really you speaking...I think we may be in agreement here...

Ive been saying here for 4 years since JVG that the coach didnt matter, not until you built a team worth coaching. Isiah has collected some players, the level of talent of which is up for debate but nobody on this site can honestly say he's done ANYTHING to build a team.

All I have said from the get go is that Larry isnt the problem. The problem is with the guy that built this thing and the players he's built it with.

To guys like Kurt Thomas, Houston, Spree, Harrington, even Spoon rest his soul it didnt matter who was coaching them. They did what that coach asked and they played hard. Problem was that group wasnt very good. We had the smallest frontcourt in basketball and our scorers were aging before our eyes. Still they played hard and won 37 games with McDyess on IR.

Nothing changes here until the losing culture goes away. I have none, ZERO confidence that Isiah is capable of changing that.



Ok that's the fish I know and don't love....Thats where we differ...My problem is the I think Brown is a heck of a coach but not for this team...I give Isiah lot of slack because of the situation he came into...I mean we needed a center, point guard, small forward and shooting guard....The only guy Isiah had to work with was KT....Nothing else, so I can't be hard on Isiah...So I'm really amazed he was able to get this talent here...If someone told you two and half years ago the Knicks would have this talent, you would say where do I sign....My big problem with Isiah is that he didn't have to balls not to hire Larry Brown...He had a plan before Larry got here and now larry has changed everything...Larry has more cred than Isiah in this town and makes alot more money than him...That means that Isiah can't ditate to Larry...If larry says this is waht I want to do then Isiah has to do it...The press and it's fans won't give Isiah the backing he needs to build this team...

It is far more easier to get rid of Larry than to trade all it's players and fire Isiah...Most people here would prefer to rebuild a team for Larry knowing that Larry won't be here in three years to win anything...I think that winning culture stuff is pure bull...Thats why Bip always loses me on the winning culture stuff...These players are all new to the Knicks..Everyone is a loser until they win...The Knicks won't change their culture until they actually win...Larry won't be here for that..

So for me, you get a GM with a vision, then the talent for your plan, then the coach...Isiah's mistake was that he didn't have the balls not to hire larry in this town....
McK1
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5/5/2006  2:56 PM
what is the vision?

younger and athletic is every teams "vision." League average age is 26. NY's average is the same. What is the identity of this young ad athletic squad? To run. Funny which of any pointguard Isiah has hired have a reputation be it college or pros of being a transition paced point guard?

where is all this talent?

I'm not tlking about guys who'll take you out to the playground and embarass you. I'm talking about rebounders outside snipers,guys with court vision, guys with court presence, guys who are responsive to coaching.

as for coaching...

Isiah didn't have the balls to hire Phil. LB is schmoozable. Phil is NOT.

[Edited by - McK1 on 05-05-2006 2:56 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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5/5/2006  3:03 PM
Posted by McK1:

what is the vision?

younger and athletic is every teams "vision." League average age is 26. NY's average is the same. What is the identity of this young ad athletic squad? To run. Funny which of any pointguard Isiah has hired have a reputation be it college or pros of being a transition paced point guard?

where is all this talent?

I'm not tlking about guys who'll take you out to the playground and embarass you. I'm talking about rebounders outside snipers,guys with court vision, guys with court presence, guys who are responsive to coaching.

as for coaching...

Isiah didn't have the balls to hire Phil. LB is schmoozable. Phil is NOT.

[Edited by - McK1 on 05-05-2006 2:56 PM]



Ok so you are telling me you expected all the above to happen in two years removed from the Layden roster and 93 mil in salary cap hell?



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-05-2006 3:04 PM]
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