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For those of you who don't like LB and think we should be a running team...
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Ray15
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5/1/2006  3:50 PM
I hope you're watching the playoffs.

The Suns/Lakers series is exactly why Phil Jackson is a hall of fame coach. He understands that you need to play both ways, slow it down, and be physically/mentally tough to win in the playoffs.

Flip Saunders had the Pistons playing great in the regular season but are they better suited for the playoffs -- in my opinion no way.

Look at the Spurs -- There's a reason why they've been so dominant for so long. Bowen, Ginobli, and Duncan are great on the defensive end and they play with heart. The Kings are giving them such trouble because they play just as physical.

Look at the Kings -- They traded away Peja and got two of the most physical, defensive, intimidating swingmen in the league. Bonzi and Artest both are great on the defensive end and just as important, play so physical that they wear the opponent down by the end of the game.

Look at the Bulls -- Duhon, Hinrich, Nicioni - These guys are tough as nails and play with heart. They leave everything out on the court. Chandler's shotblocking and defensive abilities mixed with Sweetney's rebounding are great for them.

Look at the Lakers -- They got Kobe and that's it. Phil has them playing as a team but hustling like crazy. Kobe is the best player in the league by far because he's also a top 5 defender.

Lets get back to the days where we outworked, outhustled, outrebounded, and outdefended the opposition night in and night out. Lets be less talented but so much tougher than everybody else. This is why LB did what he did this year - he needs to build the right foundation for us to do anything. Yeah, with the talent on our squad and a coach that likes to run we'd get to the playoffs but why bother if we're going to lose in the first round.

This offseason we have some options. Do everything you can to draft Lowry. If that means moving up and taking him early that's fine with me. This kid has balls and is the best perimeter defender I've seen in a long time at the college level.

Sign Jared Jeffries with the MLE - this kid doesn't put up good stats but does the little things that change games. So versatile defensively and would give us some much needed toughness.

Trade either Marbury or Francis to Memphis - hopefully they get swept tonight and feel like they need to make some changes. Bring back any combination. If they want to take on more money trade for Eddie Jones and a #1 or Eddie Jones and D Jones. If they don't want to take on that money trade for Cardinal and Battier if they do it. I would overpay for Battier. Marbury and Lee for Cardinal, a throw in, and Battier? Whichever pg we don't trade we should buy out. We're not getting anything of value and there's no sense in taking on more longterm deals. Unless we could get a lottery pick, don't take on any more longterm deals.

The only deal for Kenyon I would do would be something like Qrich and Malick Rose where we're not taking on any more money. I would also do Marbury/Francis and Qrich for Kenyon and Dre Miller. At least Kenyon plays with heart, intensity, and wants to win. No way do I trade a youngster or expiring contract for him though.
Defense and Toughness
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Nalod
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5/1/2006  4:06 PM
Role players playing roles. Kobe is shooting far less and involving his team more. Phil can coach.

Players playing defense. effort and intensity.

Players listening to the coach.

Not to many "Starburys' in the playoffs are there?
nyk4ever
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5/1/2006  4:24 PM
The Pistons look like a different team under Flip this year and not for the better. I said before the playoffs to a few friends that the Pistons are concentrating too much on offense and not enough on defense and it's going to be the reason why they don't win a championship this year and don't even make it to the NBA Finals.
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DarkKnicks
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5/1/2006  4:25 PM
...hmm... I don't know you, but I would be more than happy to have won the 54 games that Phoenix has won without playing defense. Definately it would be better than the 23 we have won this season.
djsunyc
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5/1/2006  4:26 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

The Pistons look like a different team under Flip this year and not for the better. I said before the playoffs to a few friends that the Pistons are concentrating too much on offense and not enough on defense and it's going to be the reason why they don't win a championship this year and don't even make it to the NBA Finals.

the real advantage they have is that they've been together for a while. but they are living at that 3 point line. sheed thinks he's vlad rad.
Masterplan
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5/1/2006  5:59 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:

...hmm... I don't know you, but I would be more than happy to have won the 54 games that Phoenix has won without playing defense. Definately it would be better than the 23 we have won this season.

we didn't really play defense either...
Solace
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5/1/2006  7:15 PM
Zzzz.. Phoenix is a good defensive team. They just get more possessions than any other team, so it shows they scoring more and giving up more points. Defensive efficiency shows them as one of the best.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
EnySpree
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5/2/2006  2:51 AM
I don't like this thread.

All types of teams have won championships throughout the years. Alot of teasm have been contenders but the ball bounced in other directions.

What makes a winning team? What makes a contender? Chemistry.....the team has to be in sync from the coach to the GM to the players to the fans....everyone has to be on the same page and all the pieces have to fit. Isiah, Magic, Bird, etc....they always talked about actually dying for their teamates....that's how together the team has to be in order to win it all. Like I said it's not just the players.....the coach has to be in sync with his players to the point the players know what the coach is thinking and the coach knows can simply trust his players to play the game. It's war.....but when it comes together it's a beautiful thing.

To me this is what makes a winning team. The Knicks are so far away from this in all facets it's just unreal.....if this was soccer in Brazil or some country in south america the team and the players would have been killed by now.
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holfresh
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5/2/2006  5:28 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

The Pistons look like a different team under Flip this year and not for the better. I said before the playoffs to a few friends that the Pistons are concentrating too much on offense and not enough on defense and it's going to be the reason why they don't win a championship this year and don't even make it to the NBA Finals.



Not true at all...Detriot was never lights out with Brown and defense...They won in five games agnst Philly, 6 games agnst Indy and seven games agnst Miami...Lost ot SA in the Championship...If if you think the Detriot is a lesser team with Flip your wrong...Don't forget the Nets took them to seven games the year when they won it...Detroit never makes it look easy....
joec32033
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5/2/2006  7:30 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

The Pistons look like a different team under Flip this year and not for the better. I said before the playoffs to a few friends that the Pistons are concentrating too much on offense and not enough on defense and it's going to be the reason why they don't win a championship this year and don't even make it to the NBA Finals.



Not true at all...Detriot was never lights out with Brown and defense...They won in five games agnst Philly, 6 games agnst Indy and seven games agnst Miami...Lost ot SA in the Championship...If if you think the Detriot is a lesser team with Flip your wrong...Don't forget the Nets took them to seven games the year when they won it...Detroit never makes it look easy....


........Detroit was never lights out with defense? Are you serious? Their championship year they held the Cavs to 56 points in a game! They were the best defense by far! They allowed 84.3 points per game (same as the Spurs wh run a totally different slower offense)-that number is 1.3 points per game less than the 3rd place Nets)--http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2004.html--.
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nyk4ever
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5/2/2006  8:15 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

The Pistons look like a different team under Flip this year and not for the better. I said before the playoffs to a few friends that the Pistons are concentrating too much on offense and not enough on defense and it's going to be the reason why they don't win a championship this year and don't even make it to the NBA Finals.



Not true at all...Detriot was never lights out with Brown and defense...They won in five games agnst Philly, 6 games agnst Indy and seven games agnst Miami...Lost ot SA in the Championship...If if you think the Detriot is a lesser team with Flip your wrong...Don't forget the Nets took them to seven games the year when they won it...Detroit never makes it look easy....


Say what you want Holfresh, I'm not going by statistics, I'm going by what I've seen from the Pistons leading up to the playoffs and what I see now. These Pistons are a much different team then they used to be, they are more concerned with lighting up the offensive end then playing defense. Last nights game was extremely close with about 4 minutes left and then Detroit blew it open. This is the Bucks they are playing, the 8th seed. Ask Ben Wallace what he thinks of Detroits defense too. He's not happy about it and hasn't been happy about it.
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Nalod
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5/2/2006  11:53 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

The Pistons look like a different team under Flip this year and not for the better. I said before the playoffs to a few friends that the Pistons are concentrating too much on offense and not enough on defense and it's going to be the reason why they don't win a championship this year and don't even make it to the NBA Finals.

YOu need win 4 series to gain a championship. Larry was coach won 7 straight and took the 8th to 7 games.

ITs funny when great coaches of great teams get less cred because of how good the team is. Phil Jax 9 titles are so discounted.

When you look at each roster year by year of PHils teams it was Pippen and Jordan and role players. OR the Lakes Kobe and Shaq and role players. Lots of teams have had great two players, but not many with his success.

Say what you will about Larrys acomplishments and the glass is half empty.

Last year in my mind is what happens when a fundmantally strong coach clashes with a mentally soft collection of players. The outcome is even worse than if you give in. Larry sucked last year, but the question is why. Not if.

The assumption that Carlisle made that team is overstated.

...They won in five games agnst Philly, 6 games agnst Indy and seven games agnst Miami...Lost ot SA in the Championship...If if you think the Detriot is a lesser team with Flip your wrong...Don't forget the Nets took them to seven games the year when they won it...Detroit never makes it look easy....
rvhoss
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5/2/2006  2:41 PM
thanks.
Posted by DarkKnicks:

...hmm... I don't know you, but I would be more than happy to have won the 54 games that Phoenix has won without playing defense. Definately it would be better than the 23 we have won this season.

all kool aid all the time.
holfresh
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5/2/2006  3:08 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

The Pistons look like a different team under Flip this year and not for the better. I said before the playoffs to a few friends that the Pistons are concentrating too much on offense and not enough on defense and it's going to be the reason why they don't win a championship this year and don't even make it to the NBA Finals.

YOu need win 4 series to gain a championship. Larry was coach won 7 straight and took the 8th to 7 games.

ITs funny when great coaches of great teams get less cred because of how good the team is. Phil Jax 9 titles are so discounted.

When you look at each roster year by year of PHils teams it was Pippen and Jordan and role players. OR the Lakes Kobe and Shaq and role players. Lots of teams have had great two players, but not many with his success.

Say what you will about Larrys acomplishments and the glass is half empty.

Last year in my mind is what happens when a fundmantally strong coach clashes with a mentally soft collection of players. The outcome is even worse than if you give in. Larry sucked last year, but the question is why. Not if.

The assumption that Carlisle made that team is overstated.

...They won in five games agnst Philly, 6 games agnst Indy and seven games agnst Miami...Lost ot SA in the Championship...If if you think the Detriot is a lesser team with Flip your wrong...Don't forget the Nets took them to seven games the year when they won it...Detroit never makes it look easy....




I'm not sure about that..I thought Larry got his share of credit for the Championship run in Detroit...Carlisle and Larry's teams have had jsut about the same amount of victories even with Sheed...You really can't discount what that trade did for that team..If anyone I give Sheed more credit than anyone for being the difference...But Larry gets credit for putting it together..But I think that train was running with or withour Larry....
Killa4luv
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5/2/2006  11:18 PM
Posted by Nalod:

When you look at each roster year by year of PHils teams it was Pippen and Jordan and role players. OR the Lakes Kobe and Shaq and role players. Lots of teams have had great two players, but not many with his success.
What you are not taking into account is:
Shaq and Kobe were the 2 best players in the league and 2 of the best to ever play it. Lots of teams have not had that.

MJ was the best to ever play it, with another great player beside him. I would not say lots of teams have 'great' players and don't win it. Pretty much if you have 2 great players, or one who is the best in the league, you're in the hunt to win it all.
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For those of you who don't like LB and think we should be a running team...
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