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frye is the star on this team....when
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TymeLessKnicks
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4/27/2006  2:42 PM
frye is the most efficient offensive player we have. we need to wake up and use him the same way san antonio uses duncan.

now he is not as good on duncan, but i feel his skill set is very similar. his defense is somewhat porous right now, but he shows he can block shots and with experience he can be really good.

we need to stop this madness of aquiring these bum players(martin).

if i see a starting lineup like this next year i wont be mad....

curry(offense)
frye (offense/defense/reboundin)
lee(rebounding/passing)
crawford(offense)
marbury(offense/passing)

if the team learns to play better 'team defense' we should be fine defensively.

and i feel a strong team overall.
Had enough Melo?
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Allanfan20
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4/27/2006  3:09 PM
I agree and disagree, b/c I think it would be dissapointing if we see that starting lineup next year. However, I agree that Frye is potent enough to be an offensive threat big enough to be like, the second scoring option on a team. He's very very skilled and smart and hardworking. He just needs to continue to learn, stop being nervous out there and just continue playing his game, and continue learning defense. We all saw major flashes from him his last game against Toronto. Lets see if he can build on that.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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4/27/2006  3:12 PM
He plays hard on both ends and should be rewarded with at least 32 mpg (unless we get some stud PF/C playing in front of him) and a lot of touches on offense.
Allanfan20
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4/27/2006  3:16 PM
Playing hard isn't enough. Playing good AND hard is. There were times when Frye looked flat out lost out there, and that is why he didn't get the minutes. Mo T is a black hole and a pain in the ars, but at least he knows his assignments and knows what to do.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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4/27/2006  3:30 PM
I would have ZERO problem with running the offense through Frye. He's very smart and has an array of slick moves. This is also exactly why I'm stuck on the Reggie Evans schtick. Thats a guy that doesnt need the ball, pushes around bodies, will guard the most physical frontcourt player, be the lunch pail guy, etc etc

Now neither Frye or Evans are a true center but I'm very confident Frye can score on either PFs or centers. If Frye could ever build up his base he could be a great 5. It all depends on the team concept and what style we play.

Boris Diaw and Tim Thomas play center for a 60 win team. OK, we dont have Nash but we can still build a team with goals.

We have SOOOO many question ???s thats need to be answered. Who's in the backcourt next year? MArbury? Francis? Jamal "best kid I ever coached" Crawford? Nate? Speedy? Someone we draft?

Do think no matter what happens Evans is a great pickup because he will compliment Frye OR Curry. If we go with a guard oriented offense with a lot of Nate, Francis, Crawford, Marbury, etc then we still need a guy like RE to clean up the glass.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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4/27/2006  3:50 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Playing hard isn't enough. Playing good AND hard is. There were times when Frye looked flat out lost out there, and that is why he didn't get the minutes. Mo T is a black hole and a pain in the ars, but at least he knows his assignments and knows what to do.

Huh... you do realize he was a rookie not a veteran?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bippity10
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4/27/2006  5:23 PM
There were definitely times that Frye hurt us on the floor. I think we ignored it because he was a rookie and we liked him, but there were times where his defense was horrendous and his offense lacked confidence. I'm expecting him to come in 1000 times better next year. More of a post game, better D, more strenght and deadly confidence in the J. No more passing up open ones.

Running the O through him really depends on how he develops. Based on what I saw this year I don't think he is close to ready. His post up needs work and a step back could be a huge blow to his confidence. I think we need to let him develop naturally. Right now I'm not sold that he is more than a complimentary player, but a lot can happen during the offseason.
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TymeLessKnicks
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4/27/2006  5:54 PM
^^ the guy dropped a couple 30pt games and all u think he is is a complimentary player?

alanfan i dont know why u would be disapointed...that is a very talented starting 5.

if we get patterson we can start him in front of lee for a more defensive presence.

i just dont want us to go out this summer and try to stack more talent. basically, i feel we just need to give the offense to a maximum of 3-4 players max. curry and frye should take most of the shots...its easier for bigmen to score.

we had no focus on offense this year with everyone trying to score...and i dont believe we can be like pheonix...we dont have a nash and a marion.

we should do the half court thing and focus our offense on fry and curry...marbury and crawford will get their points by the defense colapsing on the bigs when thier busting that ass...lol
Had enough Melo?
Bonn1997
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4/27/2006  8:16 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Playing hard isn't enough. Playing good AND hard is. There were times when Frye looked flat out lost out there, and that is why he didn't get the minutes. Mo T is a black hole and a pain in the ars, but at least he knows his assignments and knows what to do.

Huh... you do realize he was a rookie not a veteran?
Well said. And the idea of Mo T ever knowing his assignments is shocking to me
Allanfan20
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4/28/2006  2:48 AM
SSorry man, but it's the truth. Watch the games. Frye frequently doesn't even know where to go, is passive in terms of his shot selection, and when he gets ansy, his decision making has been poor. He doesn't know where to position his body on defense.

Again, for the record, I am the #1 Channing Frye fan, and the #1 anti Mo Taylor. But I know what I see on the bball court, and Channing has A LOT to work on, and he hasn't blown Mo T off the charts. And he certainly hasn't earned 32 minutes a game. Playing hard isn't enough, especially not for Larry Brown. Our standards shouldn't be "Just as long as they play hard" b/c that's the standards of fans of bad basketball teams. We are fans of the New York Knicks, teams that have made great stories in the playoffs.

Again, Channing Frye will eventually take away all of Mo Ts playing time. But he hasn't earned that gift yet. Why does it matter anyway to some of you. What, would it have made us a 27 win team instead of 22, with no draft pick? Big whop. Make the boy blow Mo T out of the water.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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4/28/2006  7:30 AM
I agree 100%. Frye was lost, but he also tried very hard and worked very hard so I'm not worried. Defense is mostly effort and toughness so Frye will come around.

Mo Taylor did know his assignments (shocking!). He actually rated pretty high in charges drawn per minute. Mo's problem is he's a black hole. Once the ball is in his hands its going up, end of story.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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4/28/2006  10:00 AM
Frye, Lee and Butler or guys that I don't even worry about getting better these guys just look coachable and ready to take on any role. I expect all 3 to get better as well. Frye ran out of gas in January, he was dead tired and to Brown's credit he predicted that back in Sept. when everyone wanted Frye to play more minutes. Brown was forced to play Frye more minutes then probably he needed to play. Look at Chris Paul down the stretch, he wasn't as nearly effective. Look at Bogut now in the playoffs, the guy hit the ceiling awhile ago but to his credit is fighting through it. Summer League needs to me alot longer to help these guys out.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bippity10
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4/28/2006  10:40 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

SSorry man, but it's the truth. Watch the games. Frye frequently doesn't even know where to go, is passive in terms of his shot selection, and when he gets ansy, his decision making has been poor. He doesn't know where to position his body on defense.

Again, for the record, I am the #1 Channing Frye fan, and the #1 anti Mo Taylor. But I know what I see on the bball court, and Channing has A LOT to work on, and he hasn't blown Mo T off the charts. And he certainly hasn't earned 32 minutes a game. Playing hard isn't enough, especially not for Larry Brown. Our standards shouldn't be "Just as long as they play hard" b/c that's the standards of fans of bad basketball teams. We are fans of the New York Knicks, teams that have made great stories in the playoffs.

Again, Channing Frye will eventually take away all of Mo Ts playing time. But he hasn't earned that gift yet. Why does it matter anyway to some of you. What, would it have made us a 27 win team instead of 22, with no draft pick? Big whop. Make the boy blow Mo T out of the water.

I agree with this. I don't think anyone is worried that this guy won't get better. His attitude is great and I think he will work on his game. But he has a lot to do before we annoint him anything. He is right now JUST A COMPLIMENTEARY PLAYER. That can change, but right now he is. Sorry if it hurts.

I also 1000000% agree that the standard cannot be "he played hard". We cannot lower our standards so that our young guys can get more minutes. That's why guys like Stevie Francis and the like never got better. They were handed positions simply because they played hard, were fun to watch and outplayed a silly vet in front of them. Because our team stinks we must raise the standard for David Lee and Channing higher than that. We must set the standard for them. They don't get the spot until they clearly outplay the vet in every aspect. This way there is no settling. They will take these positions sooner or later. Right now we have time. We aren't winning a title, no need to rush these guys just to get them minutes. Or just because we hate the vets. Raise the standard and they will raise their games.
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Bonn1997
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4/28/2006  11:03 AM
Standards need to be played hard and well. I wish Larry adopted those standards and never played Mo, JJ, minimally played Curry. Allanfan is the only one talking about "playing hard" being the standard. Frye has the best combination of playing hard and well out of any frontcourt player we have--not because he's a superstar but because he's good and the rest of the frontcourt isn't except for Lee.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 04-28-2006 11:03 AM]
Bippity10
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4/28/2006  11:16 AM
Again the standard s not ahving the best combination. Our team is horrible. Why would we set a standard that low. We can't use our vets as a benchmark. Those guys are lost and will not be a part of our roster. Channing and David and some of the other young guys will. So unfortunately we have to watch the silly vets play, while we set our own high standard for the young gusy to acheive. Even if they are playing the hardest, if it is not up to the standard that we have set, THEY RIDE THE PINE. That's the way I run my programs and I am known for running a Division I factory, even though "I hate freshman and sophomores". I set the standard that you must meet. Not the crappy senior in front of you. Ironically on my teams Sophomores have a better chance to play on good teams than my bade ones because of this philosophy. On a good team, my vets are setting a high standard to begin with so if they get beat out I know my young guy is ready. Btu on a bad team, handing minutes to guys that haven't clearly earned it is a dangerous, dangerous thing.

This is also a Jim Calhoun philosophy as well, so I didn't just make this up.
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tkf
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4/28/2006  11:22 AM
good post fellas. I can trust that fyre is smart enough, good enough and works hard enough to have this offense run through. He and curry can get at least 35ppg between the two of them, as fish said, we need a banger like evans to play along side either guy...

Butler has improved greatly, just think back to last year, and look at him now, butler has displayed great hands, a knack for the ball, a soft touch and he is now finishing plays with dunks, he also has a mean streak about him, that I like..

If the knicks can land kyle lowry, I would plug him in the backcourt immediately. I think next years team will be a year older, smarter and much better, I would like to have less scorers on the roster and more two way players....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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4/28/2006  12:15 PM
same argument we've been through before. I'm the only one in this argument (among Bip, Allanfan, and other LB supporters) who wants effective play and high effort to be rewarded. The argument's going nowhere b/c I won't deviate from that view.
Allanfan20
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4/28/2006  12:59 PM
Bonn, Bip and myself aren't trying to say that everything LB does is right if that's what you're percieving it to be (If that's even proper word usage). The point is, Larry doesn't want Channing and David to JUST play better than Mo T and Malik. Again, watch the games. There are times when they look great, but they rarely look great consistently. How many posts have I made that David Lee fails to put a hand in the face of a shooter as he passively approaches him, on defense? Or how many times have I mentioned that Channing has absolutely no confidence in taking a wide open jump shot, b/c he passes up on it way too many times, even though he's capable of hitting shots in peoples faces? That totally messes up with the flow of the offense. In his mind, maybe it's unselfish, but passing up shots is actually very frequently, selfish, b/c your teammates are depending on, perhaps the best mid range shooter on the team, to take and hit them. When Channing gets a better concept of what his main assignments on offense are, he'll get those 30 minutes. When he gets a better concept on how to position himself on defense (Very difficult, especially for a big man) along with the offense, he'll be getting 35+ minutes every single night. Right now, he's frequently clueless, but he's learned A LOT, or at least hopefully. He's learned a lot playing behind black hole Mo, and Mr. Hustle Malik. But the standard isn't to outplay them. THE STANDARD IS TO OUTPLAY THE OPPONENT!!!
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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4/28/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

same argument we've been through before. I'm the only one in this argument (among Bip, Allanfan, and other LB supporters) who wants effective play and high effort to be rewarded. The argument's going nowhere b/c I won't deviate from that view.

Bonn: don't get tossed into the fray with the rest of the 12 year olds that think anytime you have an opinion it's because you love LB. This IS MY OPINION. This is the way I COACH. I could give to flying f's about LB. I dont' need anyone to shape my opinion. If you don't agree, fine, but don't insult me by dismissing it as "LB loving". You are better than that.
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Bippity10
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4/28/2006  1:35 PM
I'm just on the same page as Allanfan with this one. There were too many times where these guys weren't getting it done. Yes they were outplaying Malik and Mo. We could all see it. Nobody is blind. But what we are saying is that it is a dangerous thing to use Malik and MoT as the standard for court time. Allanfan is right the standard is to outplay the opponent, perfect your game and help us win in the future. The standard is not to get more minutes than Malik. It's too low of a standard.

So what was done was to get them time. When they failed they had to earn it back on the practice floor. Then they got the minutes again. Neither of our approaches is wrong it's just a philosophy. Calling someone(LB) stupid for not doing it your way is pretty silly. I also want dismiss your philosophy as "LB hater". It's just a philosophy. The true judge of whether they've been handled correctly will be in the pudding next year when they play.
I just hope that people will like me
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frye is the star on this team....when
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