dallas 04/05 - 58-24
dallas 05/06 - 60-22

detroit 04/05 - 54-28
detroit 05/06 - 64-18

so avery coaches to a +2 differential while flip is in charge of a +10 differential.

what gives?

Because Avery Johnson kicked ass. The Pistons have been good since 2002. He did take it further though. Johnson got that team to play defense, same players and all. Also, he probably would have gotten a nod last year if coached the whole season. Plus, he is the little general!

Guys like Avery and D'Antoni built their systems from scratch while Flip just loosened the reigns.

Lets be serious, it's hard to give it to a guy for having a nice season with a championship caliber team. There was no place for Flip to go but down.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Lets be serious, it's hard to give it to a guy for having a nice season with a championship caliber team.

But this is LB's claim to fame.

I thought his Kansas run was.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Lets be serious, it's hard to give it to a guy for having a nice season with a championship caliber team.

But this is LB's claim to fame.

No it's not. LB had fame well before Detroit.

Let's go back in time....

This is from the off-season he signed with the Pistons. IOW before his championship success:

The Pistons are an NBA anomaly in many ways. Yes, they are two-time defending Central Division champions. Yes, they were one series away from the NBA Finals a year ago, but this also is a team in the early stages of its development. The Pistons were 32-50 just three years ago. Technically, this is the third year of Dumars' rebuilding plan. The two 50-win seasons were, in the end, pleasant surprises.

So, yes, Brown was hired because Dumars believed he was the guy to take Detroit to the championship level. But Dumars also believes Brown is the right coach to nurture young players such as Prince, Hamilton, Okur and rookie Darko Milicic.

"The reason we came here was the respect we had for what's been done here and for what the future holds," Brown says. "We have a lot of great young kids, and I like to think I can make a difference in terms of teaching them how to play and the right way to play.

"(Pistons owner Bill Davidson) said it best: 'We want to be successful every year for a long time, and every year come playoff time, we want to have an honest chance to win a championship" That's how I am going to approach it."

Same coach, same approach, different venue. And considering Brown has won more than 60 percent of his games as a coach, maybe that's not such a bad thing.
Brown delivers

Ten NBA teams hired a new head coach this offseason. Of those 10, the
Pistons had the best record last season at 50-32, making Detroit the
choice job when Larry BroWn was looking for employment. But did the
team make the right choice with him? A recent poll of NBA general
managers suggets it Did.

1. Which head coach is the best at developing young players?
Larry Brown 24%
Eric Musselman 14%
Jeff Bzdelik 10%
Paul Silas 10%

2. Which head coach is the best manager/motivator of people?
Phil Jackson 41%
Pat Riley 21%
Larry Brown 19%

3. Who is the best X's and O's coach?
Larry Brown 33%
Jeff Van Gundy 14%
Rick Carlisle 10%
Pat Riley 10%

4. Who is the best head coach in the NBA?
Larry Brown 43%
Gregg Popovich 19%
Phil Jackson 19%



Killa, you really ought to check out brown's history and look at the caliber of clubs he's coached, the number of 21, 22, 23 year olds he's developed, and his 26 of 29 winning seasons.

Posted by Killa4luv:

So LB leaves Detroit has the same exact team and is 10 games better.

Joins an improved Knick team and we are 10 games worse.

I mean, is it me, or is there something awry with that?

Theres something awry with having heartless and gutless basketball players on the New York Knicks like Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis who have never won a thing in the NBA and continually are traded away from teams who become better after they leave. Now that's awry.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Why don't you tell us, because I am want to know how many young players he developed? Please post where your info is coming from because Brown is notorious for not developing younger players. Antonio Davis with the Pacers, who in Philly, who in SA, any didn't stay that long in LA, so where did Brown developed rookies, in NJ? In Denver?

Well I researched it a bit a couple of months ago and made a post on another board that I bookmarked but I'm having internet access problems that site today, so this is off the top of my head... I'll be forgetting a few. Now the argument can always be made that he didn't stick around long enough at some spots to say he developed them all, and I will concede that in some cases, but none the less he gave them significant minutes and roles, IMO. My research was in response to the assertion he "hates" rookies and wants them all traded away. Few, IF ANY, of these guys were traded under Brown:

David Thompson (HOF)
Bobby Jones
Marvin Webster
Willie Anderson
Sean Elliot,
David Robinson (HOF. Robinson it should be remembered was a guy who came into the league from the Navy. He was also said to be a concert level pianist. IOW, he had several possible career paths and his commitment to the game was suspect. brown worked him HARD to lift his passion and commitment for the game. Critics suggest Brown's taking the Spurs from 21 to 56 wins in one season was a no brainer with the addition of Robinson, but it should remember that Patrick's first two seasons with Hubie were 23 and 24 wins)
Vernon Maxwell
Buck Williams
Albert King
Antonio Davis
Allan Iverson (HOF)
Taysaun Prince

And just as a little follow up...

On that Spurs team that he took from 21 to 56 wins and the conference finals in one season 3 of his 5 largest minute getters where rookies or sophomores

On his Nj team which he took from 24 to 44 wins in one season 4 of his 5 largest minute getters where rookies and sophomores.

Okay, so there's a reason that the GMs voted him best in the league at developing youth.

Though I'm sure some will still hang his reputation on the fact that a drunk 19 yr old Euro (Darko) saw little PT behind two all-stars on the way to the finals.

Going from last to first.

Prince was starting in the playoffs under Carlisle, Brown only had him for 2 seasons. and he was accomplished college player.
Allen Iverson - could be the worst example you used. Iverson left college as a sophomore under the guidance of John Thompson, played like an all-star (was upset that he didn't make the all-star team) his rookie year, continue his second. Refused to come to practice under Brown, how much did Brown influence Iverson. Brown made it need public knowledge that he wanted this guy gone and Iverson never became the pg that Brown tried to convert him to instead gave in and moved him to sg.
No question he developed AD, that's why I mentioned him.
Leave out any Net player because that man could be attribute to downfall of that organization. How did he develop King, whose rookie year was on line with his career. Buck Williams, Brown was only there for 2 seasons and asked to leave before the Nets went to the playoffs in second season.
Maxwell had many tutors but in my opinion didn't become Mad Max until Rudy T got hold of him.
David Robinson??? Considered one of the most complete players to enter the NBA and you want to credit Brown for his development? Especially on Brown's worst season which includes spats with owners, players and media.
No to Sean too, seeing how Elliot won ROY and one of the issues was Elliot's playing time which Brown and the owner disagreed about among other issues. I don't see how he developed him.
The same with Willie Anderson but if you want to say he had a larger role than Elliot I won't fight it. (only coach them for 3 seasons)
Don't have any idea why you would bring up Marvin Webster, if anything it hurts your arguement.
I give you Bobby Jones, because to me that is Brown's only legacy.
See Robinson up above, David Thompson set on the ABA as impact player and when they merged with the NBA, he was was an impact player.

I think you are mistaking a player natural development with happening to be in the right spot. You might as well as say that Hubie Brown developed Patrick Ewing, or Matt Gukous developed Shaq.


[Edited by - pharzeone on 04-26-2006 4:10 PM]

Blueseats, my point isn't about his rep, or what he has done elsewhere. What you are engaging in is a seperate, though interesting, conversation. I am concerned about what he has done here. And what he has done here is ****, bottom line. C

Posted by Pharzeone:

Going from last to first.

Prince was starting in the playoffs under Carlisle, Brown only had him for 2 seasons. and he was accomplished college player.
Allen Iverson - could be the worst example you used. Iverson left college as a sophomore under the guidance of John Thompson, played like an all-star (was upset that he didn't make the all-star team) his rookie year, continue his second. Refused to come to practice under Brown, how much did Brown influence Iverson. Brown made it need public knowledge that he wanted this guy gone and Iverson never became the pg that Brown tried to convert him to instead gave in and moved him to sg.
No question he developed AD, that's why I mentioned him.
Leave out any Net player because that man could be attribute to downfall of that organization. How did he develop King, whose rookie year was on line with his career. Buck Williams, Brown was only there for 2 seasons and asked to leave before the Nets went to the playoffs in second season.
Maxwell had many tutors but in my opinion didn't become Mad Max until Rudy T got hold of him.
David Robinson??? Considered one of the most complete players to enter the NBA and you want to credit Brown for his development? Especially on Brown's worst season which includes spats with owners, players and media.
No to Sean too, seeing how Elliot won ROY and one of the issues was Elliot's playing time which Brown and the owner disagreed about among other issues. I don't see how he developed him.
The same with Willie Anderson but if you want to say he had a larger role than Elliot I won't fight it. (only coach them for 3 seasons)
Don't have any idea why you would bring up Marvin Webster, if anything it hurts your arguement.
I give you Bobby Jones, because to me that is Brown's only legacy.
See Robinson up above, David Thompson set on the ABA as impact player and when they merged with the NBA, he was was an impact player.

I think you are mistaking a player natural development with happening to be in the right spot. You might as well as say that Hubie Brown developed Patrick Ewing, or Matt Gukous developed Shaq.


[Edited by - pharzeone on 04-26-2006 4:10 PM]

Took the letters right off my keyboard.............

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Going from last to first.

Prince was starting in the playoffs under Carlisle, Brown only had him for 2 seasons. and he was accomplished college player.
Allen Iverson - could be the worst example you used. Iverson left college as a sophomore under the guidance of John Thompson, played like an all-star (was upset that he didn't make the all-star team) his rookie year, continue his second. Refused to come to practice under Brown, how much did Brown influence Iverson. Brown made it need public knowledge that he wanted this guy gone and Iverson never became the pg that Brown tried to convert him to instead gave in and moved him to sg.
No question he developed AD, that's why I mentioned him.
Leave out any Net player because that man could be attribute to downfall of that organization. How did he develop King, whose rookie year was on line with his career. Buck Williams, Brown was only there for 2 seasons and asked to leave before the Nets went to the playoffs in second season.
Maxwell had many tutors but in my opinion didn't become Mad Max until Rudy T got hold of him.
David Robinson??? Considered one of the most complete players to enter the NBA and you want to credit Brown for his development? Especially on Brown's worst season which includes spats with owners, players and media.
No to Sean too, seeing how Elliot won ROY and one of the issues was Elliot's playing time which Brown and the owner disagreed about among other issues. I don't see how he developed him.
The same with Willie Anderson but if you want to say he had a larger role than Elliot I won't fight it. (only coach them for 3 seasons)
Don't have any idea why you would bring up Marvin Webster, if anything it hurts your arguement.
I give you Bobby Jones, because to me that is Brown's only legacy.
See Robinson up above, David Thompson set on the ABA as impact player and when they merged with the NBA, he was was an impact player.

I think you are mistaking a player natural development with happening to be in the right spot. You might as well as say that Hubie Brown developed Patrick Ewing, or Matt Gukous developed Shaq.


[Edited by - pharzeone on 04-26-2006 4:10 PM]

Took the letters right off my keyboard.............

What do you guys get from this? I don't even get your intentions. This is simply a list of rookies and sophomores who played prominent roles on winning teams under larry Brown, the only person to win a championship in the NCAA and NBA, the coach GMs voted the best coach in the league and the best at developing youth.

What do you think you're proving by manipulating simple facts? That riley isn't a good coach because Magic, Worthy and Kareem were HOFers? That Popovich isn't a good coach cause Duncan entered the league a top 3 player? That Rudy T isn't good cayuse he had Hakeem, the best player in the league in '84/'85? That Phil isn't good cause he had MJ, Kobe and Shaq? That Holzman wasn't good cause he had Reed, Frazier, Pearl and Debuschere?

I really don't get it.