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how to fix the knicks (vescey)
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djsunyc
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3/31/2006  9:54 AM
March 31, 2006 -- WHEN I'm not being accused by first grade readers of being excessively negative about the 19-51 Knicks - who would have a hard time against the dead or alive 1951 Knicks - and charged with having something personal against Isiah Thomas, Larry Brown and Stephon Marbury, I'm dared to holster my harpoon and my dirty red bandana, and formulate a solution to the team's problems instead of harping on them.

Though inclined to take the easy way out by setting up a tent around the Garden and calling it a circus, I accept their challenge.

The first order of business is for James Dolan to hire a confirmed planner, a person experienced at erecting franchises pre-foundation and/or rebuilding them by creating something out of perishables or nothing tangible to the unskilled eye.

Not only must this significant someone be given complete power to inflict his will and know-how on the Knicks' extreme make-over, but the entire Garden as well.

This would abruptly end the dream portion of Cablevision's programming.

Dolan's superior choices are five in number - Jerry Colangelo, Jerry West, Donnie Walsh, Geoff Petrie and ex-Knick Kiki Vandeweghe whose father, Ernie, played for the above-mentioned '51 outfit. Kiki, of course, transformed the Nuggets from layoffs to payoffs in less than two seasons and is a rising free agent.

The other four have repeated success stories to their credit. Despite a year (both Jerrys, for sure) or two on their contracts I cannot envision their respective bosses impeding any such switch. Who knows, Suns owner Robert Sarver may even encourage Colangelo to follow his son's footsteps out of Phoenix.

If selling Cablevision, the Garden and its two prime tenants, the Knicks and Rangers is out of the question, and Dolan doesn't find any of those names appealing, I guess there's always Pete or Rob Babcock.

One validated executive or the other, the Knicks cannot represent next season as currently composed.

Dolan cannot take a chance of permitting Thomas' mismanagement team to correct their endless mistakes.

He cannot afford to put the undeviating frown of Brown - who clearly has given up on getting anything constructive out of his players, whom, in turn, have tuned out their coach - back on the bench and in front of the cameras at post-game press conferences.

(My guess is the players are praying Brown will tell his "win the right way" story walking. His reputation as a great teacher and motivator has fallen to the point where he will have to climb a ladder to reach bottom.

Remember from our playing days the fast-break drills without a defense? That's what it looked like during Wednesday's first half, Celtics 71, Knicks 51 . . . and a lot of other halves, for that matter.

I would've paid to read what Brown and his platoon of assistants were scribbling so intently on their clipboards.

Without question, the most-uttered phrase this season in all the NBA is, "and the Knicks look to cut the deficit to under double figures by the end of the first quarter.")

Dolan cannot allow the contagious Steph Infection to infect his teammates another moment.

He cannot take the risk of repeating the repulsiveness we're witnessing on a regular basis, so much so the fans are almost too bored to boo.

Season ticket holders must have hope. And since the Bulls have the Knicks' No. 1 pick, someone undaunted in terms of making unforgiving decisions must be recruited for whatever it takes.

Someone unafraid to hold people immediately accountable, who won't flinch about serving up heads on platters; hey, it worked for the Romans, it works for me.

Someone who can make a difference.

Someone who has made a difference.

Someone who can make the survivors feel good about themselves again.

Someone who understands the burden of expectations in New York and won't be cowed by criticism or make himself unavailable to critics.

Someone who'll command his coach to stop devaluing the players and to adjust to the personnel on hand as opposed to demanding they conform to his system. I suspect Joe Torre and Willie Randolph will have their pitching rotations set long before Brown figures out his starting five.

Someone who'll insist the coach build the team around Eddy Curry, makes sure he gets the ball on every possession, and plays him 'til he drops, fouls out or gets in shape; why is Brown waiting until next year to overplay the guy for whom Thomas gave up this June's No. 1?

Someone practiced at stretching and squeezing resources instead of squandering them.

Someone who won't put up with a coach who says "we" but makes it sound like "they."

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-31-2006 10:13 AM]
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Pharzeone
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3/31/2006  10:07 AM
Agreed, though I don't blame Isiah for this mess entirely like most do here. He is the GM. He should have let go by Dolan when he offer to. Read Berman's piece today. Brown already talking like the GM give him the duties fully. Now that will be fun. Because I have a bigger fear who was really behind the Rose and Francis trades, how much was Brown in the Curry trade? If you keep reading Brown's quotes he is almost becoming defiant that he has total control and he had it day one.

"Someone who'll command his coach to stop devaluing the players and to adjust to the personnel on hand as opposed to demanding they conform to his system. I suspect Joe Torre and Willie Randolph will have their pitching rotations set long before Brown figures out his starting five."

funny quote.
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Nalod
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3/31/2006  10:26 AM
Setting rotations.

sure its been extreme, but should we have stuck with Reezy all year?

Left Nate on the bench when he was out of control most of the first half?

Not given minutes to Lee and Butler?

Stuck with Barnes?

There is another side to this. There has not been much chemistry with most lineups.

The rookies hit walls and too many minutes can reverse progress.

I can't say Im happy, and I don't have the answer.

Even Larrys 5 assistants can't figure it out either.
NYKniCksFan87
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3/31/2006  10:41 AM
Posted by djsunyc:



Someone who'll insist the coach build the team around Eddy Curry, makes sure he gets the ball on every possession, and plays him 'til he drops, fouls out or gets in shape; why is Brown waiting until next year to overplay the guy for whom Thomas gave up this June's No. 1?


[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-31-2006 10:13 AM]

that was tasteless and wrong what he said here
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
Nalod
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3/31/2006  11:15 AM
FIrst off, Pete is tastless.

I did not even think it was a heart thing, I think it was a conditioning thing.

Eddys thing now and is minutes. Larry early tried to leave him in asap even when he was gassed. Remember the Laker game when Bynam torched him? Eddie was gassed but he needed to play an build his stanima. THats what I took form the quote.
bigbeast
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3/31/2006  11:45 AM
Did Vecsey just call me a first grade reader? I emailed him back in December, and ripped him a new one for his tasteless remarks and seemingly personal vendettas.

With that said, pretty much everything he said in this article was pretty much on point. (especially the quote about Torre and Randolph having there pitching rotations set before Uncle Junior, I mean Brown....hillarious!
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
fishmike
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3/31/2006  12:32 PM
so basically Pete just spews more of his garbage except this time he says go hire Colengelo, West, Petrie or Kiki. Really going out on a limb there Pete... thanks for that.

You really come away from this article impressed by Vecsey's deep understanding of the sport.
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EnySpree
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3/31/2006  1:27 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Agreed, though I don't blame Isiah for this mess entirely like most do here. He is the GM. He should have let go by Dolan when he offer to. Read Berman's piece today. Brown already talking like the GM give him the duties fully. Now that will be fun. Because I have a bigger fear who was really behind the Rose and Francis trades, how much was Brown in the Curry trade? If you keep reading Brown's quotes he is almost becoming defiant that he has total control and he had it day one.

"Someone who'll command his coach to stop devaluing the players and to adjust to the personnel on hand as opposed to demanding they conform to his system. I suspect Joe Torre and Willie Randolph will have their pitching rotations set long before Brown figures out his starting five."

funny quote.

yeah funny quote

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djsunyc
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3/31/2006  2:18 PM
swiped from knicks4life

Pharzeone
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3/31/2006  2:23 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

swiped from knicks4life


LOL, somehow Zeke still comes out looking the best. Dolan really looks like Moe. Brown just looks like an insane old man. Funny though.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bippity10
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3/31/2006  4:41 PM
Eddie Curry has been force fed minutes his entire career and yet has never developed. In fact the only thing it produced is a guy that continues to make the same mistakes over and over and over again.Why do people still think this worked
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bigbeast
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3/31/2006  4:49 PM
Posted by fishmike:

so basically Pete just spews more of his garbage except this time he says go hire Colengelo, West, Petrie or Kiki. Really going out on a limb there Pete... thanks for that.

You really come away from this article impressed by Vecsey's deep understanding of the sport.

Impressed!? Please reread what I said and do what you do best and "fish" for the word impress. All I said was the article was on point in terms of pointing out Marbury, Isiah and especially teflon Browns ineptitude.

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
rvhoss
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3/31/2006  4:57 PM
I really liked the quote:
Someone who'll insist the coach build the team around Eddy Curry, makes sure he gets the ball on every possession, and plays him 'til he drops, fouls out or gets in shape; why is Brown waiting until next year to overplay the guy for whom Thomas gave up this June's No. 1?

I've been saying all along that larry seems to bench him after 10 points in the first 11 minutes...let him foul out, it's the same thing as sitting on the bench for 3 quarters.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 03-31-2006 4:57 PM]

[Edited by - rvhoss on 03-31-2006 4:58 PM]
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Bippity10
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3/31/2006  5:09 PM
rvhoss: Once again this is what coach's have done with Eddy for 5 years now and what you have gotten in return is a player that makes the same mistakes over and over again. LB doesn't work that way. He doesn't care about points. He wants Eddy to learn to compete on the boards and on the defensive end. When he does that he will see his minutes and playing time change. He also wants his arse in shape. We are trying to change his habits not give into them. Forcefeeding him would help him to have a better year and maybe help us win more games but guess what. Three years from now we would still be complaining about him not passing out of double teams, barrelling over defenders, not defending and being 300 lbs and grabbing 5 rebounds a game. We don't want that so we cannot give into him just so we can win 35 games and possibly compete for an 8th seed.

Raise your standards!!!

I just hope that people will like me
rvhoss
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3/31/2006  5:12 PM
yeah, but for some reason skiles and the bulls were able to get 17 ppg out of him and they made the playoffs. While I'm cool with him learning the game, maybe don't start him, or something, but 19 wins is one heck of a lesson to teach.



[Edited by - rvhoss on 03-31-2006 5:13 PM]
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Bippity10
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3/31/2006  5:20 PM
First of all we are not the Bulls. We are a unique situation and we should not be comparing us to anyone.

Secondly, It is a tough lesson. tough lessons reap giant rewards but most people aren't tough enough to go through the tough times and that's why they end up being mediocre for years to come. Just look at our last 5 years if you need evidence of this.

It's like being an alcoholic. You can give the alcoholic all the opportunities in the world. Hand them a job. Buy them a house, buy them a car. Things may work out in the short run but eventually the alcoholic needs to hit rock bottom. That's normally when changes are made.

With Eddy he won some games in Chicago, it looked pretty. He put up some Marbury stats but he was headed for a ceiling because he had never been coached. He was only going to lead teams to mediocrity. Skiles recognized this and didn't want to waste his time so he got rid of him. LB recognizes it and feels the same way as Skiles. He can't dump him so he is going to do the only thing he can. Teach him!!!!

That should not upset you. We don't want a mediocre EC leading us to 8th seeds. We want a dominant Curry. A dominant player like he is capable of becoming. Giving into him is what a high school coach would do.
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OasisBU
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3/31/2006  6:05 PM
I dunno man, with teaching usually comes improvement. What we have seen from this team almost on every level is a few steps backwards.

I am tired of hearing about how Brown break players down and builds them back up - maybe you can do that with one or two players at a time but you cant do it to an entire team.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
eViL
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3/31/2006  8:29 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

It is a tough lesson. tough lessons reap giant rewards but most people aren't tough enough to go through the tough times and that's why they end up being mediocre for years to come. Just look at our last 5 years if you need evidence of this.

So true.
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knicks1248
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3/31/2006  9:29 PM
You have to agree with Petey to some degree. Isiah has change the entire roster and hired the best available coach money can buy. The players he has drafted and aquired are far better then any team we have had in years even when Ewing, starks, oakly, mason, camby, spree ect, were here.

But here is the problem. Bip, Fish, bonn and a few others all know me from the msg boards. And the One thing that I always said was that young players are by far the worst case senerio for any franchise. All you need is 2 starters, and one off the bench.

Curry will never in his entire playing career be a franchise player, he doesn't even think so. Once you don't believe in yorself, there lies the biggest problem.

Aside from J Oneal, every franchise player you can possible think of came in this league making a statement from day one. They establish themselves as a force to be fk with. I mean do you really think in your hearts that curry will be better then any franchise player or even equal even after five years. Despite him coming out of high school he gives no indication ( in my mind) that he will ever post more then 20 and 8 for a season.

Brown for as much of a defensive GURU he thinks he is, needs to catch up a little. You want to tell me the pistons loss the finals because they couldn't play good enough D. No it's becuase they couldn't play more free flowing. There's a simple balance that needs to go with a championship team from 1 to 12 on the roster.

Isiah has the right mind set by getting athletic players, and brown has the right mind set by playing unselfish. They have a decent mix of talent, but like the saying goes, You can't turn a hoe into a house wife, especially if all she ever knew was how to be a hoe, or visa versa. And your not going to turn the vets we have into unselfish players that play Defense consistantly.

You don't have to turn over the whole rosters in one off season, but we do need to trade for a franchise player this year BY ANY MEANs
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WOODMANnYk
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4/1/2006  9:03 AM
Posted by knicks1248:


You don't have to turn over the whole rosters in one off season, but we do need to trade for a franchise player this year BY ANY MEANs

I think the only way you obtain a franchise player is via the NBA draft..

Every team out there who won championships or at least made it to the NBA finals or conference finals a couple of times, had a franchise player via the draft but also obtain a superstar in the making.

look @ the list: currently = Iverson,Pierce,Duncan, in the past = jordan, pippen, bird, magic, hakeem.. NJ drafted jefferson and then obtain a superstar pg like Kidd, stoudamire gets drafted by phoenix then they pick up Pg. NAsh, Kobe goes to lakers in a draft trade then they pick up Shaq, denver drafts carmleo who's definitely their franchise star.. all they need to do is pick up a superstar and they'll make the conference finals @ best..

As of now, no one interesting is coming out of the draft that will make an immediate impact in the NBA.. Knicks had thier chances over the last 4 drafts excluding last yr.. Picking Marbury and declaring him the team's franchise player was a huge mistake..

right now, what would be best to do is pile up with savvy veteran' players that know what it takes to get to the next level..
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how to fix the knicks (vescey)

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