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playing in this league has passed these millionaires bye bye bye
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fishmike
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3/31/2006  7:19 AM
No longer can you get by on fat stats and highlight dunks. No longer are such accolades as "only other player to average 20/8" or "franchise" enough to make you a great player.

This league has transformed, and the good teams are the ones that work and play the hardest, on BOTH ends of the court. At some point this little tidbit has passed by such greats as Marbury, Mo Taylor, Jerome James and Jalen Rose. For others such as Curry perhaps they never had it.

You have got to share the ball. One on one play can only get you so far. You have to WORK the glass, you have to attack on defense as you do on offense.

Its so obvious watching this year how a simple game played on both ends of the court has been lost on most of our players.

Truley missing this simple truth is evidence enough the game has passed them by...
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Nalod
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3/31/2006  9:05 AM
Whats also interesting with Michigan in the NIT is the retro view of the "FAB Four" and its impact.

This highly touted group was hailed as the greatest class and bought us the baggie shorts!

In retrospect, they were losers. There records are non existant and the greatness is all in their heads. False prophets.

THey choked, they cheated, they were about the money.

None, nor any of the guys that came after did anything.

Lets look at the champion wolverines of the last few years:

Steve smith: Class guy. Oldest of the group.
Glen Rice: Had his moments, then his brain and feet turned to mush once he got paid.
Juwan Howard: how corrupt would you be if Pat Riley offered you $126 million?
Chris Webber: Up and down.
Jalen: Nice payday, nothing accomplished. NOt a good reputation.
Mo Taylor. Banned for 10 years on Campus, fat, easily "disrespected!"
Crawford: nice kid, don't remember his trouble on campus, not developing according to his contract and uncle Isiahs multigenerational wealth infusion.
Tractor Traylor: Also ran afoul with the rules. So far a decent career in the NBA.

Ain't it great, we have three currently, and Rice once upon a time.

Maybe we need to stay away from Wolverines for a while.
McK1
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3/31/2006  9:10 AM
Steve was a Spartan.

where is Rumeal Robinson on your list?



[Edited by - McK1 on 03-31-2006 09:10 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Nalod
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3/31/2006  9:51 AM
Steve a spartan, ok, furthers my point.

Rumeal? Jump in add to it.
martin
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3/31/2006  9:56 AM
You know, it could be that Stern missed the boat on guaranteen contracts. I think the 4-5 year deal with the rookies coming into the league is a good thing, but there are too many vets with 5 year deals that SUCK or are SUCKING the life out of the team by not playing. Are 2 year-only guarantees better? No way would the players association buy into it.
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Pharzeone
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3/31/2006  9:56 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Whats also interesting with Michigan in the NIT is the retro view of the "FAB Four" and its impact.

This highly touted group was hailed as the greatest class and bought us the baggie shorts!

In retrospect, they were losers. There records are non existant and the greatness is all in their heads. False prophets.

THey choked, they cheated, they were about the money.

None, nor any of the guys that came after did anything.

Lets look at the champion wolverines of the last few years:

Steve smith: Class guy. Oldest of the group.
Glen Rice: Had his moments, then his brain and feet turned to mush once he got paid.
Juwan Howard: how corrupt would you be if Pat Riley offered you $126 million?
Chris Webber: Up and down.
Jalen: Nice payday, nothing accomplished. NOt a good reputation.
Mo Taylor. Banned for 10 years on Campus, fat, easily "disrespected!"
Crawford: nice kid, don't remember his trouble on campus, not developing according to his contract and uncle Isiahs multigenerational wealth infusion.
Tractor Traylor: Also ran afoul with the rules. So far a decent career in the NBA.

Ain't it great, we have three currently, and Rice once upon a time.

Maybe we need to stay away from Wolverines for a while.

Watching Rose at the NIT finals made me sick. I like Tommy though. I think Seton Hall missed him as much as PJ. Nalod are you Ohio State fan because you sure sound like one.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
McK1
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3/31/2006  10:05 AM
can't think of anymore basketball players but in football too you see the same trend.

guys like Desmond Howard, Wheatley, and to some extent Woodson with all world talent and no ability to bring it together on the next level. Woodson should be this decades Deion. After a couple of allpro seasons during the Gruden years, he has failed to make a dent when he decides he even wants to suit up.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
tkf
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3/31/2006  10:36 AM
the long guaranteed deals are killing the league, because these guys can just hang on and go from team to team, who is stupid enough to take these guys. Instead of being able to get rid of these guys and give deserving guys who are rotting overseas and languishing in the NBDL, we have to put up with these primadonna clowns...

The thing about the NBA, is that there are so many guys in college and in the NBA who have a ton of individual skills. So what will set them apart on the next level? it is dedication to play on both ends of the floor, look at morris peterson, he has made himself into a good defensive player, and this is the guy who had the nick name mo "slow" feeterson...... He said that he wanted to commit himself to becomming a better defender because he saw his career going nowhere. Now he is a valuable cog for the raptors.... We have about 4 or 5 guys on our team, who are great in their own minds, and won't change for shyt.. this is the problem with these knicks.....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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3/31/2006  10:38 AM
whi is it that guys like sam casell are having career years now, in their mid 30's? Casell said that it is easier to play in this league now than it was 10 years ago, guys don't defend and he can score. at this rate, sam can play until he is 40 with no problems...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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3/31/2006  10:45 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Nalod:

Whats also interesting with Michigan in the NIT is the retro view of the "FAB Four" and its impact.

This highly touted group was hailed as the greatest class and bought us the baggie shorts!

In retrospect, they were losers. There records are non existant and the greatness is all in their heads. False prophets.

THey choked, they cheated, they were about the money.

None, nor any of the guys that came after did anything.

Lets look at the champion wolverines of the last few years:

Steve smith: Class guy. Oldest of the group.
Glen Rice: Had his moments, then his brain and feet turned to mush once he got paid.
Juwan Howard: how corrupt would you be if Pat Riley offered you $126 million?
Chris Webber: Up and down.
Jalen: Nice payday, nothing accomplished. NOt a good reputation.
Mo Taylor. Banned for 10 years on Campus, fat, easily "disrespected!"
Crawford: nice kid, don't remember his trouble on campus, not developing according to his contract and uncle Isiahs multigenerational wealth infusion.
Tractor Traylor: Also ran afoul with the rules. So far a decent career in the NBA.

Ain't it great, we have three currently, and Rice once upon a time.

Maybe we need to stay away from Wolverines for a while.

Watching Rose at the NIT finals made me sick. I like Tommy though. I think Seton Hall missed him as much as PJ. Nalod are you Ohio State fan because you sure sound like one.

Nothing even remote links me to Ohio State. Never even been to the state!

My wife is a St Johns grad and went to school during the Mullin-Jax-Berry years!

Being in North Carolina for 20 years, have Wake, UNC, Duke, Chapel Hill to keep us busy these days.

Knicks and St Johns are our favorites.

My comemntary was based on the observation that great talent does not amount to a great team. Let alone a good team. We got guys with street cred, but not a successful background. Might even say that about our front office. I think we somtimes confuse Isiah the player with Isiah the Exec.

Someone said we need blue chip players from good programs who understand the team concept and winning. We instead load up with losers. Im ready to try new things around here.

djsunyc
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3/31/2006  10:49 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Someone said we need blue chip players from good programs who understand the team concept and winning.

hinrich - kansas
gordon - uconn
duhon & deng - duke

solid hard working players from elite programs. sounds like a good plan.
Nalod
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3/31/2006  11:17 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Nalod:

Someone said we need blue chip players from good programs who understand the team concept and winning.

hinrich - kansas
gordon - uconn
duhon & deng - duke

solid hard working players from elite programs. sounds like a good plan.


WE have 3 guys from Michigan.

Clippers have 3 guys from Duke.
McK1
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3/31/2006  11:22 AM
get some Spartans

Ager, Ager, Ager!!!
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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3/31/2006  11:24 AM
Posted by McK1:

get some Spartans

Ager, Ager, Ager!!!


i'm a big fan of trojans.

RIBBED, GLOW IN THE DARK, LAMBSKIN!!!

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-31-2006 11:24 AM]
McK1
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3/31/2006  11:32 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by McK1:

get some Spartans

Ager, Ager, Ager!!!


i'm a big fan of trojans.

RIBBED, GLOW IN THE DARK, LAMBSKIN!!!

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-31-2006 11:24 AM]

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
bigbeast
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3/31/2006  11:33 AM
Im not a Michigan fan, but to call the fab-five losers is unfair. They went to back to back finals which isn't easy by any stretch with the one and done tournament of CBB. And to do it as freshmen, makes it even more or an achievement.

As far as calling them cheaters, well, thats a different issue. You can fill up a whole roll of toilet paper listing all of the programs and coaches who cheat and bend the recruiting rules.

You think Pitino, Donovan, Calipari, Jim Obrien, Eddie Sutton, Tark, and even the great John Wooden all play by the books in terms of recruiting?
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
McK1
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3/31/2006  11:37 AM
thats how I get down but for the less endowed there is hope:

November 10, 2005
No Need To Super Size Enrique Iglesias



A condom line for the under-sized is not the kind of product launch that you'd expect from a Latin superstar. Enrique Iglesias has hinted in the past that he may not have the biggest penis in the world.

The Spanish singer enjoys a high profile relationship with tennis beauty Anna Kournikova and is lusted after by female fans around the world. But they may be underwhelmed by his confession. He says, "The next product I'm going to put my name on is extra-small condoms. I can never find extra-small condoms and I know it's really embarrassing for people."

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
PresIke
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3/31/2006  11:55 AM
I dunno about saying the Fab 5 was a failure or labeling them "losers." That's some interesting revisionist history there. They went to the NCAA Finals 2 years in a row, and had a great chance to win both games. The documentary that ESPN Classic had on them was quite good actually. Simply because the NCAA "erases" their history can't actually take away what that team did.

Webber may have taken some money but so did Camby (leading to UMass "officially" having their Final Four trip "erased") Kerry Kittles, and many other players before that. Colleges are making huge amounts of money off of the players. Certainly the players get the degree, and a scholarship, but that's obviously not the reason certain players go to those schools. Anyway, this has been a long standing debate about big time college sports with arguments on both sides, but I don't necessarily see how this makes the Fab 5 "losers."

Again, that team was clearly a success in college, 3 of their players have been NBA All-Stars and played significant roles on successful NBA teams.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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3/31/2006  11:57 AM
Posted by bigbeast:

Im not a Michigan fan, but to call the fab-five losers is unfair. They went to back to back finals which isn't easy by any stretch with the one and done tournament of CBB. And to do it as freshmen, makes it even more or an achievement.

As far as calling them cheaters, well, thats a different issue. You can fill up a whole roll of toilet paper listing all of the programs and coaches who cheat and bend the recruiting rules.

You think Pitino, Donovan, Calipari, Jim Obrien, Eddie Sutton, Tark, and even the great John Wooden all play by the books in terms of recruiting?

Thank you...my sentiments exactly.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
crzymdups
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3/31/2006  12:02 PM
Posted by martin:

You know, it could be that Stern missed the boat on guaranteen contracts. I think the 4-5 year deal with the rookies coming into the league is a good thing, but there are too many vets with 5 year deals that SUCK or are SUCKING the life out of the team by not playing. Are 2 year-only guarantees better? No way would the players association buy into it.

they need to do something. maybe something like the NFL where you sign a guy to a five year deal and it stays on your cap, but you can waive him and not have to actually pay him.

I mean, it may just look like the guys aren't trying because the season has been over for months and everyone hates Larry Brown and everyone wants out.
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playing in this league has passed these millionaires bye bye bye
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