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David Lee's defense:
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Allanfan20
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3/19/2006  10:07 PM
Just to pre warn you, this is not a hate thread. It's merely constructive criticism. To the point.

David Lee can compete hard for those boards, stay in front of his man, hustle and bust his ars till the cows come home, but he'll never ever ever become a good defender if he doesn't put a hand up in his mans face as he takes a shot. I took note of about 5 Miami baskets (I'm sure there were plenty more) where Lee would scramble to whatever man taking a jumpshot, and he'd just stop and watch. He has to get out of that bad habit SOON, or else he'll never get out of it. Just look at Marbury. He still does that, b/c he never worked on those habits. If Lee doesn't work on simple things like this, look for opposing teams to expose him MORE.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 03-19-2006 10:08 PM]
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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nyballer
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3/19/2006  10:09 PM
Unless Lee really really works on his lateral defense, I don't think he can be a 3. He was getting beat off the dribble almost every sequence by toine - if he can't guard toine (the 4th option on that heat team) then he's gonna have trouble guarding any 3's. It looks like he's trying but he can't stay in front of his man.
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Allanfan20
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3/19/2006  10:20 PM
Not many CAN defend Walker one on one. He's extremely talented. It's the hands up thing that bothers me, and that goes with guarding every player on the court. If you're running at a player taking a shot, be smart, but at the same time, aggresive and put that hand up. Lee is not aggresive like that. Teams will expose him and score many points like that.

If Lee tries hard and gets beat off the dribble, I am fine with that. That's what we'll need a shotblocker for though and improvement on the rotations on D. But everyone has to hold their own. At least David is trying, but it's not acceptable to not put a hand up.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Finestrg
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3/20/2006  9:35 AM
Even though you sound like you're describing Frye more than Lee a little (the lack of agression thing really bothers me more with Frye than with Lee because Frye just has better tools to work with - it's much more frustrating watching Frye lack agression, not box out, not challange a shot, etc., though he did commit a pretty hard foul on someone last night, maybe it was Mourning, who was going in for a dunk straight on which I ****ing loved, but then I saw him just let someone come right in for a layup left baseline and not challenge it, then he never hustled down a carrom going toward the Knicks bench that Miami eventually tracked down - it's stuff like that that kills me about Frye).

I agree with most everyone's points here for the most part about Lee. I think they should just abandon the idea that the kid's a 3 even though his natural quickness dictates that he'll always be able to play there from time to time against certain players or if Larry just wants to go big. Lee should try to put on more muscle in the off-season, bulk up a little, and come in with the mindset that he's coming in next year to lock down the 4-spot. The Knicks will be better off having a stronger, quick-as-hell PF in Lee rather than a quick but not-quick-enough guy running around on the perimeter trying to chasing down SFs. I think it's up to David and what he does in the off-season to get bigger/stronger that'll dictate whether or not he's a starting power forward next year or just a role player.

P.S. - I agree, Walker's a tough matchup for anyone, especially for a rookie, when his slippery inside game and perimeter shooting are both working but Allanfan's right on Lee sometimes. Remember the Sonics game at the Garden that we pulled out? Vlad Radmanovic went nuts and was like 10/10 from the floor in that one. He's not nearly as elusive as Antione Walker and he was primarly Lee's assignment down the stretch in that game and Lee continually gave him way too much room that afternoon - all perimeter shots.
P.S.S. - I love the kid's heart and emotion but anyone ever notice how Nate Rob. leaves his guy wide open on the perimeter after his man gives up the ball? After his guy gives it up, he collapses way off his man into the middle somewhere. He turns his back and has absolutely no idea where his man is anymore. A pass or two later it comes back to his man and Nate's dead in the water. I mean he's already giving up way too much height even if he's right in his guy's grill. No reason in the world why he does that - he's not a guy who should be clogging the middle, he's not a big, he's not a shotblocker! Leave that to the Jerome James', the Eddy Currys... Doesn't look like it's ever been adressed either. Weird... He's not the only guy who's guilty of that too, it's just a little more apparent watching Nate trying to scramble to get back to his man. Stay at home on your guy Nate!!!
misterearl
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3/20/2006  9:37 AM
"He's a prime example of someone who's taken his role and run with it," Curry said. "(Zo) goes after every shot and makes you think twice about going in for a layup. That's the level I've got to get to."
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Elite
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3/20/2006  9:52 AM
the point about not puttin a hand up can go for Steph, Malik, Lee and Frye the same...... sometimes they do.. sometimes they dont... but its getting better... i honestly notice more defensive mistakes by Malik then anyone but everyone seems to think he is a D master
Allanfan20
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3/20/2006  10:08 AM
Everyone makes defensive mistakes, afterall, it's the hardest thing to do in basketball, especially the NBA. And call me crazy, but I never called Malik a defensive monster. But he still plays tough D' and he's reliable on that end.


FineS. I agree with you 100% on what you said, even about Frye, who does seem to lack aggresion on defense. Like I said, I think they will both be good, but they have to break out of their habits. It might, sadly, take a couple of years.

I notice the same things about Nate Rob too. The guy plays tough man to man D, but he really gets in trouble off the ball, and yes, does sink down the middle too much, and when his man gets the ball, he doesn't run out to him aggresive at all. Same thing as Lee, and even Frye. Frye usually puts a hand up, but still doesn't go out quite as aggresive as you'd like.

I just wanted to make this post, b/c I've been hearing how great a defensive player Lee already is from certain people. Truth is, he plays his butt off, but he's faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from that.

There's a reason these guys aren't getting the playing time, and it's not because Larry is clueless.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
joec32033
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3/20/2006  11:12 AM
Can't we all just agree that Lee is a swing 3/4 (there are alot of players that are swing players-top caliber ones like Jamison and Walker to smaller caliber players like Hakim Warrick, Lamond Murray, Jared Jefferies.

I personally think he has deficiencies at both positions but has strengths at both positions equally.
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Silverfuel
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3/20/2006  11:59 AM
joec: What do u think about Frye as a part time (15 mins a game) Center?
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joec32033
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3/20/2006  12:13 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

joec: What do u think about Frye as a part time (15 mins a game) Center?

Actually I think have thought about that alot...he is 6-11 listed at 248 (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/channing_frye/index.html) according to nba.com so he has the size (Ewing played center at 7-0, 250 to 255 his whole career). Honestly I still feel Frye is able to play SF in spot duty, and I think he is at his best at PF and can be a perimeter center. Now if he adds a post up game to his aresenal, I think that you have to look at him as a center (because he is a better rebounder and shotblocker than Curry) and maybe put Curry at PF and give us a gigantic advantage at that position.

But that is just me,I'm an outside the box type of guy and I don't mind taking chances with positional players at all. I love versatile players and if I see one iota of any type of potential I would take the chance and develop it a bit.
~You can't run from who you are.~
David Lee's defense:

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