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All 3 Gotta go! (Vescey article)
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bigpimpin
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3/17/2006  11:55 AM
March 17, 2006 -- GUESS it's safe to say Stephon Marbury no longer is interested in earning any Brownie points.
Guess it's safe to say they don't come with any less self-esteem than Larry Brown. Coaches have to die before receiving the kind of acclaim this Hall of Famer has, yet he's compelled to defend himself against Marbury's blither and blather.

Guess it's safe to say we know exactly who's answerable for uniting these two postulating posteriors and not having the commanding presence to demand their silence when their public bickering began months ago. This is what happens when the devil sells his soul to two divergent creatures of egocentricity.

In a state that has no-fault insurance and no-fault divorce, but never no-fault sports, it's safe to say there's no and every reason to spread the blame; presenting Isiah Thomas.






If an expensive restaurant's food is no good, it's the top chef's fault or the guy who preps. The chef plans the menu and buys the ingredients. He's in charge of the kitchen and responsible for how it's received by the customers.

Marbury was a professional pest for 71/2 seasons when Isiah Thomas secured his maximum contract and minimal curiosity for anything other than individual stats. Nevertheless, it's carelessly incorrect for people to write Stephon "wore out his welcome" in Minnesota, New Jersey and Phoenix. Only the Nets were desperate to deport him; Marbury forced the Timberwolves to trade him, whereas the sputtering Suns saw an opportunity to create cap space and seized the opportunity when Thomas agreed to take Marbury and Penny Hardaway's hardcore salary as well.

You would think Thomas knew exactly what kind of player and person he was getting when he acquired Marbury: Talented. Tough. Terrible teaammate. Rude. Sullen. And uncoachable if required to do something he detested.

But, if Thomas didn't know Marbury's qualities, quirks and ignoble obsessions when he got him, surely they became transparent in the 11/2 seasons prior to Brown's arrival. Of course, Marbury became Marbury. Why would he change with Thomas indulging him every which way? Who do you think warped Marbury's already swollen opinion of himself by telling him he'd be the best point guard in the league if he applied himself on defense?

Marbury instantly forgot the last part of Thomas' statement and buried himself with the first part.

You would think Thomas also knew exactly what he was getting when he pursued Brown. He's been the same coach and the same person forever. No wonder I don't take issue with most of Marbury's observations!

Brown does cross the line when criticizing players, turning personnel problems personal in a heartbeat. He doesn't have to resort to authoring a hardcover to reveal confidential conversations, locker-room secrets and upper-management riffs. In fact, in an exceptionally, unstable, paranoid profession, Brown is easily its most insecure member.

Suspend Marbury for what, telling the truth? How could Thomas take that course of action without also suspending Brown, who has belittled and betrayed Marbury from day one?

Then again, how could Thomas suspend both of them without including himself for hiring a coach who loathed his lead player when they were in Athens for the '04 Olympics?

The same columnists who flogged Brown for the way he mishandled LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Amare Stoudemire and others, the same journalists who called him out repeatedly for pointing fingers at his players, composed sonnets praising Thomas' hiring of Brown.

Tell me I didn't read Marbury should be suspended for questioning Brown's integrity!

Integrity? How often has Brown agreed to terms with his next team before leaving his present one? Just to backtrack one team: How long do you think Brown's agent, Joe Glass, was tampering/talking to Cavs owner Dan Gilbert or his people before the Pistons were approached about giving their permission?

Integrity? How do you think Brown induced Danny Manning to switch his commitment from North Carolina to Kansas by offering his father an assistant-coaching job? Why do you think there were so many people against UNC hiring him when Dean Smith retired?

Integrity? Brown says he always leaves teams in better shape than when he got there? Oh, really? When Brown left Kansas after winning the '88 NCAA title, the school was placed on probation. It's the only time a school was banned from defending its title.

Integrity? I have it on excellent authority, in the midst of Brown's East Hampton talks with Thomas and James Dolan he was hitting up on Chris Mullin, a Long Island summer neighbor, for the occupied Warriors job.

In the first, final and foremost analysis, Brown and Marbury came to the Knicks as advertised. The ingredients were clearly marked. So were the warnings. Yet Thomas put them together anyway.

All three gotta go. Last one out, disconnect the cable!

you know times have to be changing when Peter Vescey can put together a masterpiece. But he forget one -- Dolan
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
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bigpimpin
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3/17/2006  11:57 AM
isiah Thomas hired the anti-Larry Brown, AND the anti-Stephon Marbury.

hahahahahaha
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Killa4luv
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3/17/2006  12:22 PM
aside from some of the unsubstantiated claims about Brown towards the end, I think this is his most accurate piece ever.
McK1
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3/17/2006  12:57 PM
Steph first...then Thomas...then Brown

eyes on 2008
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EnySpree
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3/17/2006  1:04 PM
Pretty much a rant but it was actually a good read.

The stuff at the end about Larry is true and no one talks about that stuff.

In any rate.....they all should really get the pink slip.
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islesfan
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3/17/2006  1:09 PM
Fine by me, I didn't want any of them to be here to begin with.

Actually I did want LB here but only because I knew how bad a fit he was and it would only expedite the process of ridding this franchise of Isiah.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
EnySpree
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3/17/2006  1:10 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Fine by me, I didn't want any of them to be here to begin with.

Actually I did want LB here but only because I knew how bad a fit he was and it would only expedite the process of ridding this franchise of Isiah.

lol
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martin
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3/17/2006  1:10 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Pretty much a rant but it was actually a good read.

The stuff at the end about Larry is true and no one talks about that stuff.

it's called leverage. most everyone does it.
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bigpimpin
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3/17/2006  1:17 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Fine by me, I didn't want any of them to be here to begin with.

Actually I did want LB here but only because I knew how bad a fit he was and it would only expedite the process of ridding this franchise of Isiah.


tsk.tsk.tsk.


"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
arkrud
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3/17/2006  1:45 PM
Nice story
But he is missing the point.
This mix is created for Dolan and media to bring the interest and as result extra money to the Owners.
This is commercial masterpiece and unfortunately basketball disaster at the same time. But who cares about basketball... if money are on the table.
Bravo Isaiah... Bravo Dolan... Nicely Done!!!
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Pharzeone
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3/17/2006  4:24 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Fine by me, I didn't want any of them to be here to begin with.

Actually I did want LB here but only because I knew how bad a fit he was and it would only expedite the process of ridding this franchise of Isiah.

Who do you want here then? After the Knicks get rid of three, who should be brought here to replace them. To just state you want to get rid of Isiah even before he got here sounds quite insane if not bias.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
islesfan
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3/17/2006  4:31 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:

Fine by me, I didn't want any of them to be here to begin with.

Actually I did want LB here but only because I knew how bad a fit he was and it would only expedite the process of ridding this franchise of Isiah.

Who do you want here then? After the Knicks get rid of three, who should be brought here to replace them. To just state you want to get rid of Isiah even before he got here sounds quite insane if not bias.

If by biased, you mean based on the success, or lack thereof, that he's had as a basketball executive and his ego and arrogance, then yes, I guess I was biased.

I'm sorry but do you honestly think that there's not a single qualified basketball executive out there that can do a better job than Isiah has? A bunch of posters who are far more in tune with NBA front offices than I am, have named quite a few people who are more than qualified for the job as Knicks GM. I'm sure you can dig up those posts.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Pharzeone
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3/17/2006  4:41 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:

Fine by me, I didn't want any of them to be here to begin with.

Actually I did want LB here but only because I knew how bad a fit he was and it would only expedite the process of ridding this franchise of Isiah.

Who do you want here then? After the Knicks get rid of three, who should be brought here to replace them. To just state you want to get rid of Isiah even before he got here sounds quite insane if not bias.

If by biased, you mean based on the success, or lack thereof, that he's had as a basketball executive and his ego and arrogance, then yes, I guess I was biased.

I'm sorry but do you honestly think that there's not a single qualified basketball executive out there that can do a better job than Isiah has? A bunch of posters who are far more in tune with NBA front offices than I am, have named quite a few people who are more than qualified for the job as Knicks GM. I'm sure you can dig up those posts.

OK, so my post was right on. Just wanted to make sure without getting accused of something. But you are right all three must go now though. I think Caroll will be out of a job soon but I don't see him as a upgrade over Isiah. I was going to suggest PJ a couple of days ago but these rumors about Pop quitting has me guessing that PJ will take over (works out nice for him). A man I would like to see take the GM job is John Thompson but he is enjoying life too much now. Doesn't matter who gets the job, the point of interest must be with Dolan and restricting the Knicks funds. Look at Layden. He went nuts when he got more money to play with. Dolan should have a realistic low budget for his management. Look at Larry's staff it is ridculous how many assistants he has.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
franco12
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3/17/2006  5:01 PM
I think we should get Charles Oakley to be GM and before we draft or trade for a player he has to be able to survive a drive down the lane against oak. If he can get up, we draft or trade for him- he stays down, and that's the answer.
islesfan
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3/17/2006  5:05 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:

Fine by me, I didn't want any of them to be here to begin with.

Actually I did want LB here but only because I knew how bad a fit he was and it would only expedite the process of ridding this franchise of Isiah.

Who do you want here then? After the Knicks get rid of three, who should be brought here to replace them. To just state you want to get rid of Isiah even before he got here sounds quite insane if not bias.

If by biased, you mean based on the success, or lack thereof, that he's had as a basketball executive and his ego and arrogance, then yes, I guess I was biased.

I'm sorry but do you honestly think that there's not a single qualified basketball executive out there that can do a better job than Isiah has? A bunch of posters who are far more in tune with NBA front offices than I am, have named quite a few people who are more than qualified for the job as Knicks GM. I'm sure you can dig up those posts.

OK, so my post was right on. Just wanted to make sure without getting accused of something. But you are right all three must go now though. I think Caroll will be out of a job soon but I don't see him as a upgrade over Isiah. I was going to suggest PJ a couple of days ago but these rumors about Pop quitting has me guessing that PJ will take over (works out nice for him). A man I would like to see take the GM job is John Thompson but he is enjoying life too much now. Doesn't matter who gets the job, the point of interest must be with Dolan and restricting the Knicks funds. Look at Layden. He went nuts when he got more money to play with. Dolan should have a realistic low budget for his management. Look at Larry's staff it is ridculous how many assistants he has.

I'm sorry but what were you right about in your previous post and what were you afraid of getting accused of? Sorry if it went above my head.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Marv
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3/17/2006  5:09 PM
Posted by franco12:

I think we should get Charles Oakley to be GM and before we draft or trade for a player he has to be able to survive a drive down the lane against oak. If he can get up, we draft or trade for him- he stays down, and that's the answer.

That's Test 1. Test 2 is jumping over Spud.
rojasmas
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3/17/2006  5:16 PM
Great article. Vecsey exposes Brown for the wacko that he is. He tries to come across like the wise old grandfather when in fact he is a manipulative, doublecrossing, backstabbing egomaniac. He is every bit as much to blame as his players for this lousy season. He is every bit as much to blame for this unprofessioanl behavior as Marbury. He will probably get bought out in the offseason. Take the money and run. And blame his dumb players who didn't get it. Then take over for some other coaching brethren he stabs in the back.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Marv
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3/17/2006  5:28 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

Great article. Vecsey exposes Brown for the wacko that he is. He tries to come across like the wise old grandfather when in fact he is a manipulative, doublecrossing, backstabbing egomaniac. He is every bit as much to blame as his players for this lousy season. He is every bit as much to blame for this unprofessioanl behavior as Marbury. He will probably get bought out in the offseason. Take the money and run. And blame his dumb players who didn't get it. Then take over for some other coaching brethren he stabs in the back.

I can't agree with that. He's a great coach who's had a horrible season. And yes he does come with lots of quirks and baggage. But so does our GM. And owner. And star player. And a few other players of ours. And an awful lot of of other GM's, coaches, owners and players in this league. Maybe even a sportswriter or two.

Dolan, Mills, Isiah and Brown need to sit down together and tap into ther collective wisdom. It's a tough job and one with a lot of public exposure. Hope they have more than they're shown to date.
rojasmas
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3/17/2006  5:43 PM
LB lives by a double standard. He is allowed to smear his players in the media but they can't say boo about him? Why not? LB is always going to the media and insulting his players and what they can't do. It goes back to his insecurity that Vecsey talks about. It couldn't possibly be his fault this team sucks could it? He goes back and talks about his record. And what about Indiana when he left. They stunk that year and underachieved. They did much better with Bird as coach the following year. Look it up. So his rant the other day about leaving everything better than when he got there isn't even true.
Don't disrespect your players and then demand respect from the same players. They make a lot of money too. This isn't college. You can't take away their scholarship.
Furthermore, it sounded like he wants to appear to kiss and make up with Marbury. Yet he let Marbury know that he is the real dictator, in his own eyes. In other words, keep going to the media with this crap Steph and I can make your life miserable. He forgets one thing. Nobody wants Marbury for the money he is making. So they are stuck with each other. Or are they? I bet LB walks away after this year. And this guy will be glad.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Pharzeone
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3/17/2006  7:40 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:

Fine by me, I didn't want any of them to be here to begin with.

Actually I did want LB here but only because I knew how bad a fit he was and it would only expedite the process of ridding this franchise of Isiah.

Who do you want here then? After the Knicks get rid of three, who should be brought here to replace them. To just state you want to get rid of Isiah even before he got here sounds quite insane if not bias.

If by biased, you mean based on the success, or lack thereof, that he's had as a basketball executive and his ego and arrogance, then yes, I guess I was biased.

I'm sorry but do you honestly think that there's not a single qualified basketball executive out there that can do a better job than Isiah has? A bunch of posters who are far more in tune with NBA front offices than I am, have named quite a few people who are more than qualified for the job as Knicks GM. I'm sure you can dig up those posts.

OK, so my post was right on. Just wanted to make sure without getting accused of something. But you are right all three must go now though. I think Caroll will be out of a job soon but I don't see him as a upgrade over Isiah. I was going to suggest PJ a couple of days ago but these rumors about Pop quitting has me guessing that PJ will take over (works out nice for him). A man I would like to see take the GM job is John Thompson but he is enjoying life too much now. Doesn't matter who gets the job, the point of interest must be with Dolan and restricting the Knicks funds. Look at Layden. He went nuts when he got more money to play with. Dolan should have a realistic low budget for his management. Look at Larry's staff it is ridculous how many assistants he has.

I'm sorry but what were you right about in your previous post and what were you afraid of getting accused of? Sorry if it went above my head.

No I always thought you were bias of Isiah the man, his background, I was also curious about your feeling on pass Knick GMs, thought it could be I hate the organization type of deal but I am a Knick fan type of rant. I myself have defended nearly every GM since I could remember back in the early 80s. I have defended moves that now I reflect back on as being ass dumb. Everyone talks about Thomas and Layden this knucklehead stuff been going on for decades. I don't care who owns this team. The last great move was the 95-96 season when the Knicks called it quits, realize their mistake in hiring Nelson, fire him promptly trade all big contracts not name Ewing and let Van Gundy read from Pat Riley's playbook. Though I still don't understand the 96 draft where the Knicks kept all their picks instead of trying to acquire Jermaine O'Neal, Nash, and even work something out with the Hornets to get that pick in the LJ/Mase trade that you knew you were making anyway.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
All 3 Gotta go! (Vescey article)

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