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Marbury: It's personal now (Sheridan - ESPN.com)
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Swishfm3
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3/16/2006  2:12 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Steph has played some incredible games this year.

I thought too before he got hurt he was buying into the system and it was working great!

I thought it was slow but it was coming together at times. I thought the teams defense was bad.

I don't know why Marbs is taking this all personal! He is the teams best player!


frustration

look how we get when the Knicks aren't winning, imagine how he feels.

all his NBA life he has been labeled a loser...and finally he's in a position where he has a GM that supports him....the "talent" around him is being raised...a hall of fame coach is brought in...and about 80% of the experts were expecting the Knicks to be a surprise team in the league and make the playoffs.

and boom..the complete opposite happends
AUTOADVERT
martin
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3/16/2006  2:14 PM
Posted by oohah:
this is an utter crap post.

Marb hasn't played D all year.

Marb hasn't been a team leader for his entire career.

Marb hasn't made his teammates better.

Marb hasn't made his team better.

Marb hasn't listen to the coach for the duration.

Marb hasn't bought into the team concept.

Marb hasn't put the team in front of his Starbury self.

C'mon Martin,

In another thread a few weeks back, you wrote that Marbury played the best ball you have ever seen for a stretch this season.


oohah

Marbury has had some incredibly good stretches this year, but that does not exclude him from my list of things above.

He seems to lose concentration. Being a leader is about putting your team first and doing WHATEVER it takes to make it and those around you better. Doing EVERYTHING. And that includes shutting your mouth and swallowing pride no matter what the coach is doing. That's what leaders do. Set examples. Now, if Marb was giving 100% in all areas, LB has no ammo for anything.

Man, Q has done jack on the O end of things but has been the consummate professional. Heard LB really knock Q? Nope. Same with Malik. It's not only performance but attitude.

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bigpimpin
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3/16/2006  2:15 PM
"is it silly, nooooo. when a rocket ship explodes, and everybody still wants to flyyyyyy"


Marbury is the rocket ship. Time to re-strategize.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
martin
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3/16/2006  2:20 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Swishfm3:

we wont get an answer Finestrg...

because the only hit that the Brown supporters have on Marbury is that he is flapping his gums to the media.

the same crime that Brown is doing....been doing.

this is an utter crap post.

Marb hasn't played D all year.

Marb hasn't been a team leader for his entire career.

Marb hasn't made his teammates better.

Marb hasn't made his team better.

Marb hasn't listen to the coach for the duration.

Marb hasn't bought into the team concept.

Marb hasn't put the team in front of his Starbury self.


and this is even a crappier post...

Marb hasn't played D all year...guess what...the WHOLE team hasn't played D all year. Either 12-15 players don't know how to play defense or someone isn't teaching it correctly

How do we know Marbs isn't a team leader? cuz he fights with his teammates?? For all we know, Marbs prolly got in KVH and Q1 face and told them to step the hell..they didn't like it and they started arguing. He's point guard...he directs traffic on the court and has avg 8 dimes for his career....as far as I'm concerned he is leading and has been getting his team involved.

has far as making his team better....I have to refer to assist again. We can all go and compare him to Kidd and Nash but both those players weren't making their teams "better" on their prior teams...so maybe some credit has to go to the coach and the system they were put in.

has far as not listening and not buying in to the team concept....I feel he has been doing that all season. and I point to his personal stat has proof. His personal averages have dipped dramatically because he has been trying to get into whatever system Brown is trying to install.

OK young fella, I shouldn't have used the word crap, my bad for sinking too low.

Stats are one area to messure a player and the thing for me is that while Marb has put up good stats have they translated into better teammates and longterm winning? Through his career, the answer for Marb is: not yet. Can he sacrifice his game to make the team better. Don't just rely on the stats.

Team ball IS about buying into a system. With his Starbury comments he is saying that he needs to get his own points and to hell with the system the coach is trying to implement.

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oohah
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3/16/2006  2:20 PM
He seems to lose concentration. Being a leader is about putting your team first and doing WHATEVER it takes to make it and those around you better. Doing EVERYTHING. And that includes shutting your mouth and swallowing pride no matter what the coach is doing. That's what leaders do. Set examples. Now, if Marb was giving 100% in all areas, LB has no ammo for anything.

I can't agree with that. Swallow your pride and shut up about what happens on the floor and behind closed doors, yes. But the coach tearing you up in the press is something that anyone will react to after a while.
Man, Q has done jack on the O end of things but has been the consummate professional. Heard LB really knock Q? Nope. Same with Malik. It's not only performance but attitude.

Rose is LB's pet. If LB tore him up in the press, then everyone would be like: "Then why you startin' him?".

As far as Q, we can wonder if he did not have tragedy strike him what Brown might have said about him by now.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
simrud
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3/16/2006  2:21 PM
I think the problem is that the so called "talent" on the the team is a bunch of knucklheads only lookin out for themselves, not caring about winning or anything else but their next contract.

Marbury has not lived up to the grand expectations of being the savior, but IT has not helped him any by bringing in fake players, who look good on paper, make the GM look good, and make Marbury look bad for not winnin with the supposed talent upgrade.

As far as I'm concerned this is all mostly on IT, not Marbury or Brown. IT has created hype, basically sellin us a bad used car, like the snake sob that he is, and now he is gonna put all the blame on Marbury, or Brown whoever wins int he cage match that IT has crated to divert the attention from himself.

So far he is succiding in his master plan, the garden should be chanting fire IT, instead they are busy booing Marbury. IT is a great politican I'll tell you that much. Just like Busch who went to war to divert the public's attention from domestic issues IT has engeneered this artifical clash between coach and best player by stackin the team with inferior past their prime, out of touch noncaring fake players thus raising the levle of expectatiions and making the public point the finger when they are disapointed as expected.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
martin
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3/16/2006  2:24 PM
Posted by oohah:
He seems to lose concentration. Being a leader is about putting your team first and doing WHATEVER it takes to make it and those around you better. Doing EVERYTHING. And that includes shutting your mouth and swallowing pride no matter what the coach is doing. That's what leaders do. Set examples. Now, if Marb was giving 100% in all areas, LB has no ammo for anything.

I can't agree with that. Swallow your pride and shut up about what happens on the floor and behind closed doors, yes. But the coach tearing you up in the press is something that anyone will react to after a while.
Man, Q has done jack on the O end of things but has been the consummate professional. Heard LB really knock Q? Nope. Same with Malik. It's not only performance but attitude.

Rose is LB's pet. If LB tore him up in the press, then everyone would be like: "Then why you startin' him?".

As far as Q, we can wonder if he did not have tragedy strike him what Brown might have said about him by now.

oohah

didnt Marbury start this whole recent LB/Marb rant with his after Bobcats thing?

Man, Marbury puts his foot into his own mouth faster than anyone I know.
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martin
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3/16/2006  2:26 PM
Posted by oohah:
He seems to lose concentration. Being a leader is about putting your team first and doing WHATEVER it takes to make it and those around you better. Doing EVERYTHING. And that includes shutting your mouth and swallowing pride no matter what the coach is doing. That's what leaders do. Set examples. Now, if Marb was giving 100% in all areas, LB has no ammo for anything.

I can't agree with that. Swallow your pride and shut up about what happens on the floor and behind closed doors, yes. But the coach tearing you up in the press is something that anyone will react to after a while.
Man, Q has done jack on the O end of things but has been the consummate professional. Heard LB really knock Q? Nope. Same with Malik. It's not only performance but attitude.

Rose is LB's pet. If LB tore him up in the press, then everyone would be like: "Then why you startin' him?".

As far as Q, we can wonder if he did not have tragedy strike him what Brown might have said about him by now.

oohah

also, answer me this: Marbury has not really changed his ways after 8+ years in the league with coaches talking to him behind the scenes.... so what's the problem with changing that and trying to break him another way?

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oohah
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3/16/2006  2:30 PM
didnt Marbury start this whole recent LB/Marb rant with his after Bobcats thing?

I don't know what set off the latest rant, but I do know that LB set the precedent.
also, answer me this: Marbury has not really changed his ways after 8+ years in the league with coaches talking to him behind the scenes.... so what's the problem with changing that and trying to break him another way?

Martin, this whole "breaking" stuff kills me. What is this, "A Clockwork Orange"? Breaking people is not a time-revered coaching method.

So no, it is not okay, and I don't think that Brown is trying to break Marbury via the media. I think LB is an ass-hole who likes to pass the buck, and doesn't care who he offends ever.

That's my take.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Swishfm3
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3/16/2006  2:31 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Swishfm3:

we wont get an answer Finestrg...

because the only hit that the Brown supporters have on Marbury is that he is flapping his gums to the media.

the same crime that Brown is doing....been doing.

this is an utter crap post.

Marb hasn't played D all year.

Marb hasn't been a team leader for his entire career.

Marb hasn't made his teammates better.

Marb hasn't made his team better.

Marb hasn't listen to the coach for the duration.

Marb hasn't bought into the team concept.

Marb hasn't put the team in front of his Starbury self.


and this is even a crappier post...

Marb hasn't played D all year...guess what...the WHOLE team hasn't played D all year. Either 12-15 players don't know how to play defense or someone isn't teaching it correctly

How do we know Marbs isn't a team leader? cuz he fights with his teammates?? For all we know, Marbs prolly got in KVH and Q1 face and told them to step the hell..they didn't like it and they started arguing. He's point guard...he directs traffic on the court and has avg 8 dimes for his career....as far as I'm concerned he is leading and has been getting his team involved.

has far as making his team better....I have to refer to assist again. We can all go and compare him to Kidd and Nash but both those players weren't making their teams "better" on their prior teams...so maybe some credit has to go to the coach and the system they were put in.

has far as not listening and not buying in to the team concept....I feel he has been doing that all season. and I point to his personal stat has proof. His personal averages have dipped dramatically because he has been trying to get into whatever system Brown is trying to install.

OK young fella, I shouldn't have used the word crap, my bad for sinking too low.

Stats are one area to messure a player and the thing for me is that while Marb has put up good stats have they translated into better teammates and longterm winning? Through his career, the answer for Marb is: not yet. Can he sacrifice his game to make the team better. Don't just rely on the stats.

Team ball IS about buying into a system. With his Starbury comments he is saying that he needs to get his own points and to hell with the system the coach is trying to implement.

lol..I'm probably older than you.

and I agree with your post...I just dont think the fans are being fed the whole story. Everyone needs to be blamed

I.Thomas
L.Brown
S.Marbury and teammates.

everyone....I just hate to see Marbury get all the blamed and used as the scapegoat
martin
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3/16/2006  2:40 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Swishfm3:

we wont get an answer Finestrg...

because the only hit that the Brown supporters have on Marbury is that he is flapping his gums to the media.

the same crime that Brown is doing....been doing.

this is an utter crap post.

Marb hasn't played D all year.

Marb hasn't been a team leader for his entire career.

Marb hasn't made his teammates better.

Marb hasn't made his team better.

Marb hasn't listen to the coach for the duration.

Marb hasn't bought into the team concept.

Marb hasn't put the team in front of his Starbury self.


and this is even a crappier post...

Marb hasn't played D all year...guess what...the WHOLE team hasn't played D all year. Either 12-15 players don't know how to play defense or someone isn't teaching it correctly

How do we know Marbs isn't a team leader? cuz he fights with his teammates?? For all we know, Marbs prolly got in KVH and Q1 face and told them to step the hell..they didn't like it and they started arguing. He's point guard...he directs traffic on the court and has avg 8 dimes for his career....as far as I'm concerned he is leading and has been getting his team involved.

has far as making his team better....I have to refer to assist again. We can all go and compare him to Kidd and Nash but both those players weren't making their teams "better" on their prior teams...so maybe some credit has to go to the coach and the system they were put in.

has far as not listening and not buying in to the team concept....I feel he has been doing that all season. and I point to his personal stat has proof. His personal averages have dipped dramatically because he has been trying to get into whatever system Brown is trying to install.

OK young fella, I shouldn't have used the word crap, my bad for sinking too low.

Stats are one area to messure a player and the thing for me is that while Marb has put up good stats have they translated into better teammates and longterm winning? Through his career, the answer for Marb is: not yet. Can he sacrifice his game to make the team better. Don't just rely on the stats.

Team ball IS about buying into a system. With his Starbury comments he is saying that he needs to get his own points and to hell with the system the coach is trying to implement.

lol..I'm probably older than you.

and I agree with your post...I just dont think the fans are being fed the whole story. Everyone needs to be blamed

I.Thomas
L.Brown
S.Marbury and teammates.

everyone....I just hate to see Marbury get all the blamed and used as the scapegoat

I don't know what just happened but you compared getting stats to leadership in your orginal post. Stats ain't crap but HOW you get stats may make your team better.

Early Jordan used to get tons of points, don't mean he was making his team better. It wasn't until Jackson came along and convinced him to make his teammates better WHILE getting the stats at the appropriate times that Jordan made his team better.
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Swishfm3
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3/16/2006  2:46 PM
I agreed with your statement on stats and then went off on something else.
Nalod
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3/16/2006  3:55 PM
THis is getting off the point.

The media thing was started by Marbury in Charlotte. Larry said its about defense. Thats it. Then "starbury" was unveiled. Then Larry responded to it.

This is about Defense and by not playing it does not garner the Freedom that Marbury looks for.

I really don't think most BLAME Marbury for much exept the chemistry and leadership.

The reports about KT and Q wanting to rip him apart, the SAS story that nobody wants to play with him, the story last year about Marbs Blasting off on an assistant coach during a film session, and the body language we see on the court.

Take his history and browns and you gotta take a side.

Who goes? If you rid of larry , you still have Marbury! Love him or not, the question is can you win with him as the leader of the team? Or, look for new leadership and keep the old coach who might have had a bad year given the phuched up nature of this roster that was quite possibly doomed from day one.

I for one really would prefer that Marbs sit at the lap of yoda (larry) and obi won (Isiah), both whom were excellent point guards in their day and learn the lessons of "the Force" and apply to his game. I really thought this would happen.

There is stench in the locker room and we fans are really not in the know at this point the origin of it.

My guess its the one who scowls. Talent alone cannot overcome his personality deficencies.
martin
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3/16/2006  3:57 PM
Posted by Nalod:

I for one really would prefer that Marbs sit at the lap of yoda (larry) and obi won (Isiah), both whom were excellent point guards in their day and learn the lessons of "the Force" and apply to his game. I really thought this would happen.

PG-style lap dance?

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Pharzeone
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3/16/2006  4:01 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:
He seems to lose concentration. Being a leader is about putting your team first and doing WHATEVER it takes to make it and those around you better. Doing EVERYTHING. And that includes shutting your mouth and swallowing pride no matter what the coach is doing. That's what leaders do. Set examples. Now, if Marb was giving 100% in all areas, LB has no ammo for anything.

I can't agree with that. Swallow your pride and shut up about what happens on the floor and behind closed doors, yes. But the coach tearing you up in the press is something that anyone will react to after a while.
Man, Q has done jack on the O end of things but has been the consummate professional. Heard LB really knock Q? Nope. Same with Malik. It's not only performance but attitude.

Rose is LB's pet. If LB tore him up in the press, then everyone would be like: "Then why you startin' him?".

As far as Q, we can wonder if he did not have tragedy strike him what Brown might have said about him by now.

oohah

also, answer me this: Marbury has not really changed his ways after 8+ years in the league with coaches talking to him behind the scenes.... so what's the problem with changing that and trying to break him another way?

I would say it was all Marbury but I just thought about who he was fighting with. Brown has no credibility. Wasn't this the same guy who according to him just get fire for talking to other teams about a position in their organization during the playoffs. Isn't this the same guy who went to the press to cry about Mar... I mean AI not practicing, the same guy who went to the press to let everyone know that Carmelo, Lebron, Marbury and AI wouldn't been his selections of the USA team if he had a say so, oh yeah nice getting into it with both Carmelo, Lebron and Wade. Travis Best, Larry Hughes. Going to the press about Darko not tough enough after you proclaim that the guy would be better than both Lebron and Anthony on draft nite. If you want to give him kudos for his past career be my guess but as a person there is a lot to be deired. Marbury is an idiot for giving in to this guy childish games with the press.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Nalod
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3/16/2006  4:13 PM
Darko cried to the press often about playing time.

Lebron and carmello and wade were rookies and not mature. Especially carmello!

George Karl ran into the same diva wall two years before.

Larry was 100% right and USA basketball did a 180 and changed its selection process! Same guy who is right!

Darko blossomed under Flip? Larry winning big time and owner is breathing down his neck to nuture Darko?

HOw is Larry talking with other teams unless he gets permission? Why he get permission? Davidson did not want to pay a coach whom might need to take time off. Why he pay him $7mil when he got the knick gig? Coaches and teams can break a contract and just walk away. Larry walked to the knicks and got 7mil. Davidson was pissed! Why, cus maybe he messed it up too!

You take your team to two finals and in a day or two after going to mayo clinic and your owner is pressing you to predict the future? Phuch him! Larry played him.

Personally I know one of the minority owners of the pistons and he tells me the group was mighty not happy about the way Davidson handled it. Davidson wanted his pet Joe to get more credit and did not like the attention Larry got in year one! After winning the Stanley Cup with his Tampa team and the NBA trophy, he was intoxicated with himself as the majority owner.

What does this all have to do with playing defense? Thats wjat this is all about anyway anyway!

Pharzeone
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3/16/2006  4:29 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Darko cried to the press often about playing time.

Lebron and carmello and wade were rookies and not mature. Especially carmello!

George Karl ran into the same diva wall two years before.

Larry was 100% right and USA basketball did a 180 and changed its selection process! Same guy who is right!

Darko blossomed under Flip? Larry winning big time and owner is breathing down his neck to nuture Darko?

HOw is Larry talking with other teams unless he gets permission? Why he get permission? Davidson did not want to pay a coach whom might need to take time off. Why he pay him $7mil when he got the knick gig? Coaches and teams can break a contract and just walk away. Larry walked to the knicks and got 7mil. Davidson was pissed! Why, cus maybe he messed it up too!

You take your team to two finals and in a day or two after going to mayo clinic and your owner is pressing you to predict the future? Phuch him! Larry played him.

Personally I know one of the minority owners of the pistons and he tells me the group was mighty not happy about the way Davidson handled it. Davidson wanted his pet Joe to get more credit and did not like the attention Larry got in year one! After winning the Stanley Cup with his Tampa team and the NBA trophy, he was intoxicated with himself as the majority owner.

What does this all have to do with playing defense? Thats wjat this is all about anyway anyway!

Ask coach. Tell me how does Curry not playing well have to do with Marbury's lack of defense, or was it Marbury who got Ariza to get into it with coach. Or was it Marbury who made coach let everyone know that Frye missed his assignment. Both Marbury and Brown are missing something that has been missing at the Garden for sometime and that is class. Marbury should have taken a lesson from Ewing and his dealings with both Hubbie and Nelson. Just tell it to management and step back and let the pieces fall. But both Hubbie and Nelson did have some restraint with the press as compared to Brown.
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Nalod
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3/16/2006  4:44 PM
Marbury wants freedom.

Larry said we can't unleash the beast until we shore up the defense.

We tried it earlier in the year. The transitional defense is very sloppy.

Thats when Marbs questioned Larry and said "starbury" is coming back.

Larry never said Marbs defense himself was bad, but the team itself.

Did you see the Denver game? When certain players that rhyme with "doonsbury" took it upon to start going toe to toe with them, they killed us!

I don't lay this season on marbs, but he should not have challenged his coach in public. Difference between bitching about some players and chalanging them.

Reezy is a good example. THe dude got diactivated and went to the press. Thats when Larry said he was dilusional!

Reezy backed down from a start in Los Angeles because he said it made him too nervous! That is when it started with him. Thats when he got kicked down. A professional basketball player does not back down from a start unless its an injury. I love reezy, but dam!

larry could have went off on him but that was kept quiet until Reezy whined to the press.

When your 17-45 and your coach just got the backing of the owner and the GM, and then you start challangeing in public, thats a hissy fit.
Marv
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3/16/2006  5:14 PM
This is Larry's MO. He has a long history with this - as in however many years with AI as a prime example. Larry is a nudge!

Marbs is a headstrong proud guy.

They are both major drama queens!!!

Put these two togehter on a losing team and you got fireworks! How inevitable was this! Plus with the two hauling in, what, $27M between them for the season, and having the greatest stage possible for their theatrics, Gotham City, they're milking it big time. They're reality stars. And at the moment I think it's just a big smokescreen. For what most people have already mentioned here - probabaly the biggest single clusterf**k season in the history of professional sports. Yay us!

But if we're talking pure basketball, I cast my stones thusly:

#1. At Larry Brown for doing a horrible job this season. Yes, he has a great history as a coach and I was personally ecstactic when we signed him. But every time he "gives in" and plays to the strengths of this squad he then backs off and mucks it up again. I think this has been one season where his insistence and stubborness have directly backfired.

#2. Isiah - for caving in and acquiring Jalen and Stevie. I was with him, win or lose, up to that point. But he lost me there. I don't think he has a clue what to do now.
rojasmas
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3/16/2006  6:44 PM
Marbury does have a point with LB working through the media and not respecting his players. Brown is a phony. It is similar to how you treat your kids. If you get all over them and insult them they don't respond. And then you want respect back? It works both ways.
So Marbury the player is an idiot. But Marbury the person deserves more respect than what LB has given him. Larry should keep some things private and stop trying to win the battle of public opinion with his players. Who would trust LB after the stunts he has pulled in his career, much less this year?
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