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I think Lee has more NBA potential than Frye
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McK1
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3/14/2006  3:13 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by TMS:

A-fan, why is a couple seasons a stretch? i've seen players like Carlos Boozer improve his game in the span of 2 seasons to average 18 & 9 & he was a 2nd round pick that came out of school w/alot less upside... he did that all on hard work... Frye's not lacking in the work ethic department, & he's a more talented basketball player... i can easily see him getting to 20 & 8 type numbers in 2 or 3 seasons.


how do you figure Boozer had less talent? because he couldn't shoot a 20 footer

Boozers physique and athleticism at the same age lightyears ahead of Frye


no, because he was a supplementary player on his NCAA team, while Frye was the main cog on his... also because about every NBA franchise deemed him to be worthy of second round pick status when he came out & Frye was taken 8th overall... but i guess those scouts don't know what they're talking about & i guess you saw it all the way that Boozer had the talent to be a 18 & 9 guy, didn't you? my bad... next time i'll check with you before i make such outlandish comments.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-14-2006 3:04 PM]

ummm are you seriously going to use draft position as a basis for your argument?

and Frye was also a secondary player on those Zona teams. AZ was all about the guards
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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islesfan
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3/14/2006  3:14 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:


Simply put..Frye is 20 and 10 for the next 10 years...Lee is not....Lee cannot create his own shot...He cannot defend the 4 spot or the 3...Frye can play the 4 or the 5....

How does Lee play when Steph is on the bench...He cannot score...Just put backs...The entire league is trying land Frye not Lee.....Please dude I like Lee.....Stop with the trade Frye talk..


20 and 10 the next 10 years??? You must be smoking some serious crack. When did he become a Hall of Fame player?

LOL, why are you calling a player who gets 20 and 10 over a ten year period a HOF. So I guess Marbury is an Icon based on your reasoning. Watch yourself, you are tripping on your own words.

Sorry but a PG who always has the ball in his hands and can try to score or dish if he has to, whenever he feels like it is a little different than a big man who avgs 20 and 10 for 10 years. Go back and check how many 20 and 10 big men aren't in the Hall of Fame.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
holfresh
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3/14/2006  3:27 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:


Simply put..Frye is 20 and 10 for the next 10 years...Lee is not....Lee cannot create his own shot...He cannot defend the 4 spot or the 3...Frye can play the 4 or the 5....

How does Lee play when Steph is on the bench...He cannot score...Just put backs...The entire league is trying land Frye not Lee.....Please dude I like Lee.....Stop with the trade Frye talk..


20 and 10 the next 10 years??? You must be smoking some serious crack. When did he become a Hall of Fame player?

LOL, why are you calling a player who gets 20 and 10 over a ten year period a HOF. So I guess Marbury is an Icon based on your reasoning. Watch yourself, you are tripping on your own words.

Sorry but a PG who always has the ball in his hands and can try to score or dish if he has to, whenever he feels like it is a little different than a big man who avgs 20 and 10 for 10 years. Go back and check how many 20 and 10 big men aren't in the Hall of Fame.



U guys paint this picture of Marbs as a chucker and nothing could be further from the truth...Marbs is a scoring guard which is different from a shoot first and dish if you have to guard...There is no way on earth you can average 8 assist for 10 years if you are not looking to pass the ball...You see the games and Marbs is always trying to pass..amazing...what are you watching?
holfresh
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3/14/2006  3:29 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:


Simply put..Frye is 20 and 10 for the next 10 years...Lee is not....Lee cannot create his own shot...He cannot defend the 4 spot or the 3...Frye can play the 4 or the 5....

How does Lee play when Steph is on the bench...He cannot score...Just put backs...The entire league is trying land Frye not Lee.....Please dude I like Lee.....Stop with the trade Frye talk..


20 and 10 the next 10 years??? You must be smoking some serious crack. When did he become a Hall of Fame player?



The guy is dropping 13 and 6 now in 25 mins.....so your telling me he can't drop and 7 and 4 boards in another 15 mins a seasoned pro.....


Karl Malone 30 mins 15pts 8.8 boards rookie yr
KG 29 mins 10 pts 6 boards rookie yr
Weed Wallace 28 mins 10pts 5 boards rook yr..
C Webb 32 mins 17 pts 9 boards rook yr...
Pharzeone
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3/14/2006  3:31 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:


Simply put..Frye is 20 and 10 for the next 10 years...Lee is not....Lee cannot create his own shot...He cannot defend the 4 spot or the 3...Frye can play the 4 or the 5....

How does Lee play when Steph is on the bench...He cannot score...Just put backs...The entire league is trying land Frye not Lee.....Please dude I like Lee.....Stop with the trade Frye talk..


20 and 10 the next 10 years??? You must be smoking some serious crack. When did he become a Hall of Fame player?

LOL, why are you calling a player who gets 20 and 10 over a ten year period a HOF. So I guess Marbury is an Icon based on your reasoning. Watch yourself, you are tripping on your own words.

Sorry but a PG who always has the ball in his hands and can try to score or dish if he has to, whenever he feels like it is a little different than a big man who avgs 20 and 10 for 10 years. Go back and check how many 20 and 10 big men aren't in the Hall of Fame.

Good point about being a big man. Closest is Ewing, Zo and Robinson. Though Kemp never cracked 20 really. He is close. Don't know if Zo is a HOF. J' O'Neal, is he a HOF, his career would be on par with Ewing and Robinson if he went to school. Looking at some of these guys stats, Frye numbers in his rookie year is better than alot of HOFers and would bes. Only Ewing and Robinson came in with fire. Hakeem numbers are good too. The biggest waste is Roy Tarpley. "Kids leave them drugs alone." Tarp was a sure HOF.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
islesfan
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3/14/2006  4:04 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:


Simply put..Frye is 20 and 10 for the next 10 years...Lee is not....Lee cannot create his own shot...He cannot defend the 4 spot or the 3...Frye can play the 4 or the 5....

How does Lee play when Steph is on the bench...He cannot score...Just put backs...The entire league is trying land Frye not Lee.....Please dude I like Lee.....Stop with the trade Frye talk..


20 and 10 the next 10 years??? You must be smoking some serious crack. When did he become a Hall of Fame player?



The guy is dropping 13 and 6 now in 25 mins.....so your telling me he can't drop and 7 and 4 boards in another 15 mins a seasoned pro.....


Karl Malone 30 mins 15pts 8.8 boards rookie yr
KG 29 mins 10 pts 6 boards rookie yr
Weed Wallace 28 mins 10pts 5 boards rook yr..
C Webb 32 mins 17 pts 9 boards rook yr...

Frye isn't even in the same atmosphere as Malone or KG so let's not even get into that. But just so you know, KG is barely a 20 and 10 player for his career and hasn't done 20 and 10 for 10 years but I'm sure he will.

I'm a little surprised with Webber but now that I think about it he was a pretty damn good player for awhile before he started to get hurt all the time. Even then he never rattled off 10 years of 20/10 and certainly not easily.

Weed never came close to 20/10.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
holfresh
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3/14/2006  4:13 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:


Simply put..Frye is 20 and 10 for the next 10 years...Lee is not....Lee cannot create his own shot...He cannot defend the 4 spot or the 3...Frye can play the 4 or the 5....

How does Lee play when Steph is on the bench...He cannot score...Just put backs...The entire league is trying land Frye not Lee.....Please dude I like Lee.....Stop with the trade Frye talk..


20 and 10 the next 10 years??? You must be smoking some serious crack. When did he become a Hall of Fame player?



The guy is dropping 13 and 6 now in 25 mins.....so your telling me he can't drop and 7 and 4 boards in another 15 mins a seasoned pro.....


Karl Malone 30 mins 15pts 8.8 boards rookie yr
KG 29 mins 10 pts 6 boards rookie yr
Weed Wallace 28 mins 10pts 5 boards rook yr..
C Webb 32 mins 17 pts 9 boards rook yr...

Frye isn't even in the same atmosphere as Malone or KG so let's not even get into that. But just so you know, KG is barely a 20 and 10 player for his career and hasn't done 20 and 10 for 10 years but I'm sure he will.

I'm a little surprised with Webber but now that I think about it he was a pretty damn good player for awhile before he started to get hurt all the time. Even then he never rattled off 10 years of 20/10 and certainly not easily.

Weed never came close to 20/10.



Frye has the potential to put up numbers like these players...and you guys want to trade him...
what is that?
Bippity10
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3/14/2006  4:38 PM
Such a dumb argument. Noone is saying that Frye is KG or Karl Malone. Why is that even coming up Isles? So that you have something to argue about? Anyway, back on point. Anytime Frye gets any minutes he is a lock for at least 13 and 7. And this is a guy who still doesn't have supreme confidence in his J(not sure why). Still trying to figure out the offense. Still needs to bulk up and still needs to get a go to post move. That being said, with his attitude why would anyone be shocked if he became a 20 and 8 player? The potential is there. Will he have the impact of KG? Of course not. But can he put up those numbers? Why not? What evidence is there that says he won't improve upon his current numbers and consistency as he becomes more confident, stronger and learns the tricks of the trade?

As for David Lee. Don't get me wrong, he is my favorite player on this team. He has a lot of upside, but besides being able to run the floor and dunk and rebound what has he shown us? Ball handling? Shooting? passing? He's shown flashes of all but has a looooooooooooooooooooooong way to go in all.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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3/14/2006  4:40 PM
For the record this is not a Latrell vs. Allan debate. Why not keep both? Why must we trade either of them. As a matter of fact that is the last thing we should do. There are going to be enouhg minutes for both if they both improve.
I just hope that people will like me
MS
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3/14/2006  4:51 PM
Boozer was drafted at the end of the first round, Frye averaged 7 rebounds in college some of you don't watch the games, Frye is a spot of jump shooter, he doesn't have any post moves right now and he has an awkard hook shot that occasionaly goes in, he doesn't know how to use his body around the rim and is limited in his athleticism and defensive ability....

Lets not give Frye 20 and 8, obviously we would like to keep the guy and see Eddy Curry traded but no one is going to take him, in terms of value Frye has a lot around the league right now, and scouts tend to be wrong pretty often so lets not kill someone for saying no one knew lee was going to be good......so people are so ****ing stupid its insane

Who are the best two up and coming two-way sf prospects (Lebron not included) in the league Josh Howard and Gerald Wallace both of whom went late in the first round......

Tony Parker and Ginobli? Where were they drafted

Michael Redd and Gilbert Arenas???????

Scouts are wrong all the time and so are GM's; Jermaine O'Neal for Dale Davis, Letting Steve Nash walk and signing Dampier?

So if Lee develops a jumper and he does have some moves, more in fact around the basket than Frye there is no telling what type of player he can become because he has the work ethic, jumping ability and IQ to go along with strong rebounding.....
TMS
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3/14/2006  5:50 PM
Posted by MS:

Boozer was drafted at the end of the first round, Frye averaged 7 rebounds in college some of you don't watch the games, Frye is a spot of jump shooter, he doesn't have any post moves right now and he has an awkard hook shot that occasionaly goes in, he doesn't know how to use his body around the rim and is limited in his athleticism and defensive ability....

Lets not give Frye 20 and 8, obviously we would like to keep the guy and see Eddy Curry traded but no one is going to take him, in terms of value Frye has a lot around the league right now, and scouts tend to be wrong pretty often so lets not kill someone for saying no one knew lee was going to be good......so people are so ****ing stupid its insane

Who are the best two up and coming two-way sf prospects (Lebron not included) in the league Josh Howard and Gerald Wallace both of whom went late in the first round......

Tony Parker and Ginobli? Where were they drafted

Michael Redd and Gilbert Arenas???????

Scouts are wrong all the time and so are GM's; Jermaine O'Neal for Dale Davis, Letting Steve Nash walk and signing Dampier?

So if Lee develops a jumper and he does have some moves, more in fact around the basket than Frye there is no telling what type of player he can become because he has the work ethic, jumping ability and IQ to go along with strong rebounding.....

first of all, Boozer was taken in the 2nd round, 6th pick by CLE... but you're going off on a different tangent here... no one's saying you can't find great talent in the 2nd round... my point was that Boozer COMING OUT OF COLLEGE was not projected to be much more than a role player, but he worked his arse off to become an 18 & 9 player in his 3rd season... i see Frye as having at least that potential if not more, considering the fact that he's already shown he can hit the jumpshot & has skills scoring around the basket in his rookie season along w/a great work ethic, which was a big reason why scouts were high on him coming into the draft last year... what's so unreasonable to think the guy can average 20 & 8 when guys who were inferior to him coming out of college have been able to put up #'s just below that mark?

btw, is it possible for you to make a point w/o resorting to throwing personal insults? does calling you a ****in moron do anything to support my own argument?

[Edited by - TMS on 03-14-2006 5:52 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
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3/14/2006  5:55 PM
Posted by MS:

Boozer was drafted at the end of the first round, Frye averaged 7 rebounds in college some of you don't watch the games, Frye is a spot of jump shooter, he doesn't have any post moves right now and he has an awkard hook shot that occasionaly goes in, he doesn't know how to use his body around the rim and is limited in his athleticism and defensive ability....

Lets not give Frye 20 and 8, obviously we would like to keep the guy and see Eddy Curry traded but no one is going to take him, in terms of value Frye has a lot around the league right now, and scouts tend to be wrong pretty often so lets not kill someone for saying no one knew lee was going to be good......so people are so ****ing stupid its insane

Who are the best two up and coming two-way sf prospects (Lebron not included) in the league Josh Howard and Gerald Wallace both of whom went late in the first round......

Tony Parker and Ginobli? Where were they drafted

Michael Redd and Gilbert Arenas???????

Scouts are wrong all the time and so are GM's; Jermaine O'Neal for Dale Davis, Letting Steve Nash walk and signing Dampier?

So if Lee develops a jumper and he does have some moves, more in fact around the basket than Frye there is no telling what type of player he can become because he has the work ethic, jumping ability and IQ to go along with strong rebounding.....

Scouts still don't think Wallace is that good of a player. The arguement is that he can shine on a bad team. That has been Ricky Davis MO from jump. Meaningless games he is the all-star put heat on his back, he nowhere. Josh Howard has a chance of becoming really effective like a Pippen type of player. Never the #1 guy but alot more than a #2 guy can give you. You got to love Nellie, he is hit or miss in his draft. Never scare to take a chance. As far as this arguement goes, I think all the rookies have been left a little taken back. Never knowing when they are playing and worry about guys getting moved. From what I read all the rookies were upset about Trevor, Brown probably comes off as Uncle Junior.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
holfresh
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3/14/2006  7:04 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

David Lee reminds me of Tom Chambers. Hopefully he can reach the same level of play as Tom did.




How, Tom Chambers had a big time jump shot and post moves....Chambers was a riser that dunked over people....What part of Lee's game remind you of Chambers? Chambers was not a big rebound guy either..He was all offense....Lee can't create his own shot yet....





[Edited by - holfresh on 03-14-2006 7:07 PM]
franco12
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3/14/2006  7:25 PM
Lee to me is like Jeff Foster/Jerome Williams- a prototypical role player that averages 8 & 7 for you with a few games where he grabs 20 boards and has a major impact.

Hey, if Frye can be a 16 & 7 guy at the 4, then that is huge.
holfresh
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3/14/2006  7:31 PM
Posted by franco12:

Lee to me is like Jeff Foster/Jerome Williams- a prototypical role player that averages 8 & 7 for you with a few games where he grabs 20 boards and has a major impact.

Hey, if Frye can be a 16 & 7 guy at the 4, then that is huge.



I totally agree, I think Frye and Lee needs to bulk up and compliment each other at the 4 spot in the coming years..I hear they are best of friends...Let all hope they can add 20-25 pounds of muscle over the next 2-3 years and we will see what happens...we should be celebrating this instead of putting these guys against each other or trying to trade one to benefit the other...
McK1
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3/14/2006  7:40 PM
what if Frye goes in a draft day deal that nets better frontcourt complements to Curry?

ie a BRUISING 4 and long rebounding dead eye small forward
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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3/14/2006  8:25 PM
Posted by McK1:

what if Frye goes in a draft day deal that nets better frontcourt complements to Curry?

ie a BRUISING 4 and long rebounding dead eye small forward



Who is that unnamed player...
holfresh
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3/14/2006  10:51 PM

Even if Fyre turned into Antawn Jamison, I'll take that...They also had similiar rook numbers...
McK1
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3/14/2006  10:58 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Even if Fyre turned into Antawn Jamison, I'll take that...They also had similiar rook numbers...


get out of the stat sheet.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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3/14/2006  11:02 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:


Even if Fyre turned into Antawn Jamison, I'll take that...They also had similiar rook numbers...


get out of the stat sheet.



Antawn Jamison....23 mins...9.6 pts...6.4 rebs..0.7 asst...0.3 blks.. in his rook yr...

so you are right.....Frye had better numbers....

My bad....



[Edited by - holfresh on 03-14-2006 11:02 PM]
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